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#1847253 03/21/07 09:20 AM
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funkman Offline OP
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Can someone please help, i am very in love with my fiance, in past posts i have called her my wife but we are actually not married yet. we met alomst 2 years ago fell madly in love this past Sept we just had twins boy/girl. It seems like since the babies came everything about her personality has changed. we will have 2 incredible days together followed by 4 days of crazy fighting. i love her so much but its like we cant talk to each other anymore.

when we start fighting we both take our turns saying the relationship is over. We say we are going to leave but neither of us do. I try to be sensitive to her needs as much as possible but i feel like i get no credit for it. i work all day then when i come home i help her with the babies if wash needs to be done ill do wash , dishes , ect. i dont know how to save my relationship, i sometimes wish i didnt love her anymore so i could just walk away from the pain and the fighting but i cant she is everything to me.

i printed out the emotional needs questionaire we took it and went over it , but it seems like none of that matteres , the minute an issue comes up that we dont agree on we start fighting, then it starts to feel like noeither wants to give in for pride reasons. i am always the one coming to her saying "baby im sorry for fighting , i love you lets just stop" she never tries to help a situation when we are fighting. can someone tell me how we can comunicate better. i feel like her whole persoanily changed overnight she used to be a very passive person now its like she needs to aggressively challenge everything i say or do. i cant picture my life without her nor do i ever want to but we have drifted so far aprt i dont know how to get back... im lost

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Just guessing but I'd have to say your fiance has a lot of fear concerning her future, her children's futures, and the future of your relationship. Let's face it by not being married you can walk out on her whenever you feel like it. True you'll have to help her finacially to support the kids but your presence in their lives is in doubt. She doesn't have that same freedom. She could be quite resentful of you regarding that situation? As a general rule a woman will only fight about matters like this when she's afraid.

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no its not like that i want to marry her but she says she wont until we fix our problems

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I don't know what's going on because I'm not there, but it doesn't surprise me that she's refusing to get married right now. That doesn't mean that she's still not very concerned and afraid regarding her future. You said yourself that in the midst of fighting with her that you've threatened to leave. I'm guessing you've also said that you wish you didn't love her anymore too. I realize that was said in the middle of a fight, but it was said none the less and if she's concerned about her future that's pretty much the worst thing you could say to her.

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i understand that , and we have both said those things i just need to find an answer. i have never loved someone so much and been so attrated to someone. i just want to make things right at any cost , ill do anything i have to do. i just got off the phone with her and shes saying she needs a break from me, again we have both said thid before so i dont know what will happen. it seems alot of people have these kinds of problems and i want to find out how they have made things right.

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dont get me wrong she has issues of her own , its not just me. my main issue or her main issue with me is trust. i have trust issue where i feel i need to call her alot to see what shes doing or where shes at, some of the time tis sincere though i just want to call and talk but i have a terrible fear of another man being with my girl i wish i could get over this but i dont know how. i really want to learn how , i trust her i really do but its almost like obsessive compulsive

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Your fiance is unsure about you as a long term spouse and father for her children.

Read that again.

That should feel like a slap in the face to you.

Your job now is to convence your fiance that you will indeed make a good long term spouse for her and be an excellenct father to her children. I say "hers" because the fact is she is held to a different standard right now regarding the children than you are as their father. That's part of the problem. You have a kind of freedom that she doesn't, and the constant fighing and turmoil that her relationship with you is causing in her life just makes that difference between the two of you seem even greater.

Step one, stop fighting with her. Your job is to support her and aid her in any way you can right now. For God's sake she just had twins six months ago! That represents a phenomenal amount of work 24/7. Not to mention that her hormones are raging now too. Being a new mother is always somewhat traumatic, and the uncertainty in your relationship is just making matters worse. Stop pushing her into commiting to the relationship. Stop pushing her for sex. In short stop doing anything that upsets her period! Once you stop doing all that make yourself available to her in any way you can. Do all the housework. Do all the cooking. Do all the shopping. Pay all the bills. If you did everything like this she would still be getting the short end of the stick in the division of labor due to the fact that the twins are consuming her entire life right now.

If you can succeed in doing this. Making yourself indispensable in her life. Making yourself the guy she turns too when something needs to be done or when she has even the smallest of problems. Slowly her opinion of you will begin to change. Right now she just doesn't believe you, and that puts you at a tremendous disadvantage. But the way to overcome this disadvantage is to be consitantly there for her when she needs you. Talk is cheap, but actions are what you can always count on. She needs to see such actions from you and she'll begin to believe in you again.

I'm sorry to be so blunt, but the fact is bluntness is what is called for. You owe it to your fiance to help her through this tough time. If you do it right you'll have a marriage that you both can count on...

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basically that means let her walk all over me and be as mean as she can. i have no problem doing those things, but we cant even communicate enough to discuss them

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Quote:

i have trust issue where i feel i need to call her alot to see what shes doing or where shes at, some of the time tis sincere though i just want to call and talk but i have a terrible fear of another man being with my girl i wish i could get over this but i dont know how. i really want to learn how , i trust her i really do but its almost like obsessive compulsive




I'm guessing you're pretty young. This fear you feel is primarily the result of immaturity. It's also caused by the insecurity you feel regarding your relationship. These feelings can be very damaging to a relationship. I'm not saying you should blindly trust your fiance/wife no matter what, but if a spouse doesn't give you any legitimate reasons to be insecure then it is wrong for you to act in such a manner.

What I recommend is that you begin working on your relationship in a manner like I outlined in the post above. Give to her without any heed for her giving back to you in return. Work your butt off and basically keep your mouth shut and make no demands of her. This is a short term strategy, esentially for the next year or so. You aren't alone in giving in such a selfless manner, it's what's expected of her with the twins too. Doing this will not only help you to regain her trust and repair your relationship, but it will solidify you position in her life. Women who have a good man who meets their needs and is a guy they can rely upon are not interested in the attentions of other men. Next I'd advise you to seek out a men's group of some kind that you can join or find and older man that you respect in order to share your feelings and get a mature and experienced male perspective in your life. You need encouragement and understanding in the same way your fiance does, but she's not the best one to help you to be the man you need to be.

Lastly don't feel bad about all this. I think every man who tries to do the right thing in life has gone through what you are dealing with today. I know I did, and I know that it is the rare man who is able to get it right the first time around.

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Quote:

basically that means let her walk all over me and be as mean as she can. i have no problem doing those things, but we cant even communicate enough to discuss them




Some might say that by impregnanting her with twins you've been doing some of that walking too. My guess is she's tried of all the discussion. She needs someone she can count on. Discussing it won't make that happen. Doing it will.

Maybe she's being totally unreasonable, but in my experience women with infants aren't always the most reasonable people I've had to deal with, especially when you're married to them or are the guy who got them pregnant. We can sit here and commiserate together about the unfairness of this all day long, but ultimately it won't change a thing. Women can be very hard to figure out sometimes, but the thing that attracted me to the Marriage Builders philosophy to begin with was that it helped to make a lot of sense out of what had perplexed me for so long.

You've got a decision to make. If you want to be married to the mother of your children and be in all of their lives everyday you've got to figure out how to make her happy and begin doing it. That's going to take you putting aside your bruised ego long enough to see her side of this problem too. My ultimate point to you is (and I think Dr. Harley backs me up on this) is that sometimes you have to give wihtout necessarily getting back in the same quantity. Do so now and I believe you'll reap a positive divedend from it in the future. And that future may not be as far off as you might think. Step up today and you might be surprised at how quickly she starts coming around to seeing your side of this more clearly and begins to want to meet your needs too.

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your right , you are right, i just wish it didnt get this far. im 31 i have already been divorced once and dont want to ever go through that again. im going to do what your saying. i love her that much to try, thank you for the insight

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Dude I'm not beating you up. Click on my user name and read some of my first posts if you want to read about a guy blowing it big time with his wife. I think the perspective you are lacking has a lot to do with the twins. I'm not saying you haven't been stepping up and doing your part, but even when you do that in your situation it isn't enough. Part of the way the division of labor works when a couple has a baby is that the man needs to be able to be the stability in the family. You're the point man dealing with problems, and everything changes after the baby(s) arrive. Intitially those changes will seem to be pretty bad, but I think eventually you'll be able to see that they can also be pretty good. This event can either solidify your marriage and make it stronger or it can undermine it to the point of failure. Studying up on Marriage Builders and talking with some older men who have been through this successfully could be a really good way for you to gain some perspective on this and be successful in your own right.

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Quote:

dont get me wrong she has issues of her own , its not just me. my main issue or her main issue with me is trust. i have trust issue where i feel i need to call her alot to see what shes doing or where shes at, some of the time tis sincere though i just want to call and talk but i have a terrible fear of another man being with my girl i wish i could get over this but i dont know how. i really want to learn how , i trust her i really do but its almost like obsessive compulsive




funkman, you sound a lot like my STBXH. He has a MAJOR trust issue as well and I suspect that has to deal with a lot of problems in your marriage. When I first had my baby I stayed home as well (husband wanted that). He would call me all the time too. He said it was usually just to see what I was doing, but it felt like he was always checking up on me. I felt suffocated and resented him. He also wanted Sxx all the time. But since he wasn't meeting my ENs, I was not interested in it at all. I only did it to make him happy/keep peace in the house. I feel like you are not disclosing everything. It is more than just the twins being here that caused your fiance to change.

Also, do you mind if I ask why your first marriage didn't work out?

I wish you the best. I miss my H, but because of his lack of trust I couldn't keep living like that.

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Ok, your gf just had twins. What's possibly going on in her head (just hypothetical concepts for your consideration):

She's utterly freaking tired. One infant is a lot of work, leaving a normal woman beyond exhausted, I can't even comprehend multiples. 24/7 she's being glommed onto, bodily fluids and all, by tiny demanding imperatives of nature. She's feeding 2 babies up to 12 times a day, each. Changing them upwards of 8 diapers, each. Diaper runs. Dr. visits. Settling them down for naps or bedtime. Baths. Midnight cries (and then the infamous 1am and 3am follow-ups - assuming they sleep in tandem). Sometimes new mothers need to not be touched by their spouses, or if so let it be just affection (backrubs or whatever) instead of in a SF-leading way. As this interferes with a guys need for SF, you'll have to discuss with her what she is comfortable with.

Before this, you and her hair appointment (or whatever) were the most important things in her day. Now, she's lucky to get a private moment in the loo. Is she getting enough to eat and drink? (Is she taking vitamens - definitely a attitude improver for me) A daily shower? She's turned into Mommymachine, and where are you in this? Are you still going out with buddies? Are you a sports fan who can't be bothered when the game is on? Have you been helping at night? When was the last time you let gf sleep in or go anywhere baby-free for three hours?

Possibly, she is concerned about her body, or the babies. Are they healthy? Does she have symptoms of PPD? Is she feeling confident about her abilities, her body, or perhaps her ability to get back to the pre-babies body? Do you regularly schedule Daddy/babies time where you watch the kids (including changing & feeding) and she gets things done around the house? Does she know you love her? What "needs" of hers have changed, and have you been trying to meet them? (Try a copy of "His Needs, Her Needs for Parents".)

Lastly, you have nature working against you. You want attention, SF, etc. She's biologically programmed to expend her energies on these little ones. Be gentle with her, patient as you can be, but work on getting time alone, just you and she. This will take time, but you can get there if you persevere. You'll need this time to rebuild and strengthen your R.

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i am not one of those guys that hangs out with his friends nor am i a sports fan, all i want to do is be with her . Shes my best friend and to be with her everday all day would make me happy. I help as much as possible with the babies. when i get home from work , i play with them to give her a break , change them, help her bath them. when we put them to sleep they often keep waking up so i let her sit on the couch and ill run upstairs to help them . when we go to sleep if they cry up to midnight i will usually hear them and jump out of bed bfore she gets up, but after that i sleep and let her get up so i am ok for work. i think that is fair. if i see bottles that need to be washed i will wash them, same with the clothes and such. so i try as much as possible to take the pressure off of her, i know she has the hardest job in the world and i respect that. i just cant figure out how to get over some of my issues, i just cant lose this women she is my world and i would do anything to try and make her happy... she will often try to make dinner and stuff like that and i tell her all the time , its not 1950 i dont expect my wife to have dinner ready for me when i get home, she has enough to do and i am perfectly capable of making my own food and food for her if she wants me to

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Well, you sound reasonable, but I don't have to live with ya so it isn’t my opinion that counts! .

What are arguments about?

What Lovebusters do you see yourself making in the R?

Yikes, you tell her you'd leave during arguments? Ouch. Keep that up and she'll beat you to it and take the twins with her. Sounds rather self-defeating, no?

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we both say we are leaving when we fight, i think we are both just tires of arguing. to be honest we fight about stupid stuff. most of the time i am just mad that we are arguing and that puts me in a bad mood then she gets mad at that and its just a cycle we cant seem to break. im 31 and she is 26 , i dont think the age diff matters much . i cant figure it out, since the babies have been born she just seems to have a different personality some times

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I don't think it is the age difference, I am 27 and my H is 32.

You know that it is a cycle that must be broken. You should really make an effort to stop the cycle. DO NOT threaten to leave. My husband does that to me occaisionally too and it is hard to feel secure in a relationship when those words have been spoken - and we are married. I refuse to say it since I know I don't mean it. It is just hurtful, don't say hurtful things for the sake of winning an argument over something that you characterize as stupid. In fact, don't say hurtful things period, even if she does it, you have to stop the cycle.

If you are fighting about stupid stuff, just don't fight about it. If she engages you in an argument, kill her with kindness. Validate her feelings (it does not matter if you don't agree with her, she is having the feelings so they are real to her), give her a hug, say you are sorry she is frustrated, then when she is calm, you can ask her what she needs you to do. If it is a real problem, don't engage her until you are both calm and can talk without fighting.

You can only control yourself. You have expressed in your other posts that you are frustrated that you will have to do most of the work to improve your relationship. It is the same in my relationship. I have found that when I do my best to avoid LBs and fights, my husband subconsiously reflects my behavior. Just like you are reflecting each other in your fights, reflect each other with respect and kindness. Don't let her put you in a bad mood, be in a good mood and let your good mood reflect upon her.

Since we don't have children, I have no idea how that dynamic adds to your situation. You might also want to try posting on the Emotional Needs forum because it gets a lot more traffic from the experts, of which I am not.


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Why don't you pose your question on the emotional needs forum. There's more traffic there, I think you'll get great advice. (oops, I see Muffina beat me to it )

If you don't see significant issues in the R, other than GF's moodiness, I have to wonder if it is a communication problem compounded with oodles of negative behaviors (lovebusters or LB).

And let me warn you that while W may have her own issues, you're going to be taking the brunt of fixing the R. You are here. You want to save the R. The advice you get will be based on what YOU can do, not what your GF should be doing. Because when you change your actions, and learn to communicate better, chances are your GF will follow suit. Just as one person can downgrade a conversation, one person can keep a conversation, or a R, upbeat.

With this in mind, my first piece of advice is:

No matter what your GF does that hurts your feelings, it does not make it ok for you to do it back (or first). Stop saying you'll leave in an argument. If you want GF to start trusting what you say, building a better R, you need to only say what you are prepared to do, ready to take responsibility for that assumption. If you are leaving, leave. If you aren't leaving, stop saying it. Forever. Until the day you've given up all hope and are packing your bags and have child support ready to dole out. You are killing your R with saying things that later you are taking back. You are acting untrustworthy. Say only what you mean, and if that means you have to stop for a minute and think about what you're about to say, surely a minute is worth the payoff: being a better partner and a better person in general. "Threatening" to leave is just that: a threat. You are trying to manipulate her, and it isn't fun being on the end of that, is it?

So why are these discussions blowing out of proportion? Probably because your extra tired GF feels her love for you is at an all-time low. Something you are doing, or not doing, has been absent for so long that she is dangerously close to withdrawal (If you haven't already, take time to be reading the articles and concepts on this site). So how can you get her out of withdrawal? Stop all lovebusters. Eliminate them completely. They cancel out all your positive efforts too fast to maintain your GF's feelings for you. Remember saying you're not getting credit for trying... I'll bet my left shoe this is why. I think there are articles on this site that will give guidance. For further clarification, "Lovebusters" is a great book to help you recognize those issues, and will be helpful providing motivation to stop.

You can turn this around, but you need to be someone who is not taking away (in the form of LBing) from the R more than you are giving.

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Thanks for all the advice , i am working on some things now. Its not really that her love for me is low , she always tells me how much she loves me. it just seems we get caught up inthese arguments and it just escaltes to all out fighting. i feel we dont communicate properly


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