YL27

You seem to have high expectations of how others 'should' behave, in particular towards you.

You seem very hurt and very angry - not surprising - but your father's wife is not the person who made the choices that caused you to be in the position you are in. She seems to have made some selfish choices herself, but that does not entitle you to hang your anger on her alone.

The circumstances of your conception are not your fault; both of your parents bear that responsibility. Your mother had unprotected sex with a man who had made no commitment to her, and about whom she did not know enough; that was a foolish thing to do, and she (and you) paid the price.

Your father's current wife has a family she is desperate to protect, as is normal for mothers. Of course, blaming you is not fair, but doing everything to make you 'disappear' from their lives may seem like the best way to protect her own kids from any dilution of their father's interest. It seems that she has the further burden of being an OW, and of having entered into an affair marriage...but that will not lessen her commitment to her own children. As a mother yourself, can you not understand that? Whatever the circumstances of their marriage, she did not enter into it promising to cherish any illegitimate offspring of her husband's other affairs.

She has no obligation to welcome you, whether you like that or not. Your father has an obligation to maintain some kind of relationship with you, but she does not. I would suggest you look closely at your sense of entitlement here, and imagine yourself as the wife of a man who produces an OC some way into your marriage.

Judging her achieves nothing for you. Why bother?

This woman owes you nothing. Her personal morality is irrelevant. It is your father who owes you...something.

TA

Were is your Birth mother?- She lives in another state. She has had nothing to do with my father, since finding out he was married. The only reason we met is because my mom's old friend told my dad we had moved back to my hometown and he wanted to meet me. My mom felt it was only fair that I know where I came from.


Were is any step-dad? If any?- No step-dad until I was about 21, when my mom got remarried. She raised me on her own.


All this concern about somebody who didn't care about you for 16 years, (Which may have been mutual consent with birth mother)- This wasn't a mutual consent by my mom. She just moved to another out of state and cut off all contact. She eventually planned on telling me everything when I was a little older. I think my mother did a very good job with me and my siblings as a matter of fact not trying to brag but all my mom's kids are doing very good. I think we are more successful then my father's kids.



Go to the wedding, IF she makes a scene, hold your head high and say your brother invited you.- That is what my half-brother and his fiance keep saying. Everyone (except my father's wife) on my fathers side of family told me to go to the wedding. My brother and his fiance said it is their special day not hers and don't want her trying to control the guest list. My brother told her he could invite whoever he wants to HIS WEDDING. She fails to realize that you can't control others weddings.

Don't you think she is placing expectations on other adult family members, by expecting them not to maintain a relationship with me and trying to bully then out of maintaining a relationship with me. Just like she couldn't control her husband's actions she can't control theirs. That is the biggest issue I am having with her. Other family members are fed up with her actions also not just me. Because they feel that she is trying to control their lives. My brothers are adults with their own places and pay their own bills. If they want to invite me to THEIR HOUSE (NOT HERS) for dinner, then she shouldn't try to control them. Like my aunt said she can't control who my brothers have at their house.

As far as shared DNA, my brothers were very happy to meet me. When they first saw me they gave me a hug and a kiss. I remember the first year we would spend hours on the phone talking about everything. We still to this day talk all the time and spend time with each other. My aunt and cousins always say they wish they had met me sooner so they could have formed a relationship earlier.I have a genetic condition that no one on my mom's side of the family had, but all my brothers and my father have it. So it felt good for me to meet them because it answered a lot of questions, that I had the right to know.

She has no obligation to welcome you, whether you like that or not. Your father has an obligation to maintain some kind of relationship with you, but she does not. I would suggest you look closely at your sense of entitlement here, and imagine yourself as the wife of a man who produces an OC some way into your marriage.

Judging her achieves nothing for you. Why bother?

This woman owes you nothing. Her personal morality is irrelevant. It is your father who owes you...something.


She doesn't have to welcome me like I said before, BUT THAT DOESN'T GIVE HER THE AUTHORITY TO TRY TO CONTROL OTHER ADULT FAMILY MEMBERS WHO DO WANT TO WELCOME ME. This is the biggest issue me and other family members have with her. She doesn't have to welcome me, but she can't try to control when others of my father's side of the family want a relationship with me. I don't expect nothing from her, but other family members expect her not to try to control their lives. No matter how anyone looks at it this is what she is trying to do. My aunt told her that she can't control who my aunt (my father's sister) maintains a relationship with. That is what is driving her crazy. At one point I stopped communicating with my aunt (we are really close), because of my father's wife. It really upset my aunt a lot, my aunt says she has no control over nothing and me and my aunt are still very close to this day. She told me that my father's wife has no say so in who she maintains relationships with. It is not the fact that she doesn't welcome me, but do you think it is okay for her to try to control other family members on my father's side who don't want a relationship with me. Keep in mind that all these people are adults who have welcomed me with open arms and want to continue having a relationship with me.

It is funny that you talk about expections, because some of my father's family members have told her that if she doesn't like me fine. But don't expect them to do the same thing and that is exactly what she is expecting of them. The fact I have been close with my brothers has bothered her a lot. The thing is she has high expectations for them, by expecting them not to maintain a relationship with me. But they are adults who can maintain a relationship with me if they want to. She has been very disappointed because they made the choice as adults to maintain a relationship with me. If anything she has high expectations by expecting other ADULT family members to do what she wishes. Why else would she try to control my ADULT brother and his fiance's wedding. She has even upset my brother's soon to be mother-in-law by trying to control everything dealing with the wedding. Or what about her trying to control who goes to other adult family members homes, when they are the ones inviting me to their homes.It is not like she lives or pays the bills in their homes, so why does she think she can make decisions concerning their homes. What am I supposed to do turn down every invite to please her? She is allowed to have her feelings, BUT THAT GIVES HER NO RIGHT TO TRY TO CONTROL OTHER FAMILY MEMBERS LIVES.

If it was me in her shoes I would be upset about an OC. But I would also realize that I can't control other adult family members who want relationships with the OC, that is their right. My aunt told me that I am her niece and my father's wife can't stop us from spending time together or maintaining a relationship with each other. What some BS don't realize is you can't control other adult family members (except for the Husband in most cases) who want to have a relationship with the OC. BS have NO CONTROL over aunts, uncles, cousins, grandparents, or other adult children who desire to maintain a relationship with the OC. She may not like it, but my father's side of the family expects her to respect their wishes.



Do you think she has the right to control or try to control other adult family members who want to maintain a relationship with me?


Do you think it is okay for her to snap and say evil things to her own son (in front of soon to be in laws in my brother's house), since him and his fiance want to invite me to his (NOT HERS) wedding.

You are the embodiment of betrayal, hurt and lies to the BW. Plain and simple. Not everyone is able to separate the OC from the A. No one knows what your father owned up to as far as his responsibility to her. He appears to be a repeat cheater.

Of course, you were not part of the decision making in the A and you did not ask to be part of that situation. But neither did SHE. I don't think it is so unusual for her not to want you to be part of her family. Extended family either. It probably makes no difference to her that your mother didn't know he was married.

You should back off of your self righteous OC attitude towards people who have LIVED the BW side. You can never understand what that is like. You appear to have as little compassion for other peoples pain as you say his wife has for you.

Take a look at your responses from people who have lived this nightmare! You said you wanted their opinions, but you just wanted more people to join you against the BW. I saw only one response from someone who has an OC in the family and you don't know what she has been through! She is a huge supporter of OC's.

The questions you asked where loaded from the start and they had a negative/judgmental spin already towards BW's feelings. She answered exactly as I would answer THOSE questions. If you want to be validated in what you already feel, you are going in the right direction. If you really want to understand and what to make the situation better. Be a little more humble and teachable about things you do not understand first hand.

What real answers and opinions? Ask real questions.

People who have been betrayed without having an OC............don't really know what it is like and can't imagine how they would really react.

I understand why you want to be part of the family and have the BW treat you nicely. Everyone wants that. I am not defending her poor treatment of you. She needs to grow up on the treatment end. But you said you wanted to understand how she feels. That is different.

Really I don't care if she is nice to me or not. BS come on with self righteous BS attitudes, I am just as innocent as the BS. For the past 10 years she has came with a self righteous attitude towards me, like I am at fault for her problems and is very judgmental towards me. I am not the only one that feels this way about her so do other family members on my father's side of the family. Most of them are fed up with the way she is acting by trying to control who in the family wants to maintain a relationship with me. These are real questions if you don't like them that is really not my problem, because this is based off of my experiences.

1. Do you think the BS has a right to control who other adult family members want to maintain a relationship with? The reason why I ask this question is because this is what my father's wife has been trying to do. She tries to make anyone who has contact or a relationship with me out to be the bad guy. This is based off of my experience if it doesn't seem like a real question to you then so be it.

On the first question correct me if I you think I am wrong. Here it goes: My father's wife didn't really anticipate and hoped that my father's family wouldn't accept me. She never thought my brothers and I would get so close or with my aunt would treat as I was her own child. She is pretty much stuck between a rock and a hard place. Because on one hand she wishes I would just go away, but on the other hand she knows that my father's family wants to maintain a relationship with me. So she lashes out at everyone who wants to be in my life, she has no control over this situation. So it makes her even more upset, add to the fact that she knows that they will not give into her demands and it upsets her even more. Just thinking about this probably makes her even more upset so she continues to lash out at other innocent family members like my aunt, brothers, and cousins.

2. I tried once to cut contact off with my father's family and it had my aunt in tears. My brothers weren't happy about it either. Up until that point I seriously underestimated how close I had established a bond with my brothers and my father's other family members. We all had a very long talk (except for father's wife) at my aunt's house, one of my brothers was in tears and so was I. They all let me know that they wanted to be a part of my life and I wanted to be a part of theirs. That was the first time seeing my brother cry and I was mad at myself for trying to end the relationships and bonds that had already been formed.My oldest daughter is my oldest brother's favorite niece. As a BS how would you handle this situation? My aunt will get upset if I go more then 3 days without at least calling or emailing her. Do you think I should just completely cut off all contact with my father's family?
I am asking this as a real question based off of my situations.

3. As a BS how would you handle my whole situation (based off the information I gave you)? When answering these questions please take into account my relationship with my father's family as they want me in their lives and that is main reason that I am still in their lives and won't just disappear. Also because she lashes out at innocent relatives who want to be a part of my life.


These 3 questions above are all based on my situation. But this last question I will ask involved a friend of mine and I would like your feedback on how you would have handled this situation, knowing what you know now. I would like if other BS would give me feedback on this situation also. I have my ideas on how I would handle it, but would especially like to hear others take on this situation. Here it goes

4. Back in boot camp I met and befriended this 18 year old girl I will call her T. Well I had always heard of people having babies at the age of 12-13, but never knew anyone personally who had a baby at such a very young age.When she told me she had a daughter in kindergarten I thought she was lying, but I eventually realized she was telling the truth. At first I was disgusted with her, because I thought what kind of girl has sex at such a young age. That disgust soon turned to sorrow. At 12 years old I was still playing with dolls and boys were the last thing from my mind.

Eventually she told me what had happened. She used to babysit a 5 year old girl I will call the child B for a couple who lived a few houses down from her, afterschool for just a few hours. All sudden the father who I will call Z started coming home earlier out of the blue. T said he keep giving her a look and at 12 she was too young to understand what that look meant. One day B was sleeping Z came home early and brought my friend T into the room. He started kissing and putting his tongue down her throat, within a few minutes he was inside her and having intercourse with her. This continued for many months later.

Now keep in mind that before this T had never kissed a boy, let alone had sex. She was too scared to tell anybody what happened and said that it hurt so bad everytime he put his thing in there. She didn't want the intercourse, but was just too scared to push him away since Z was like over 6 ft tall and weighed at least 200lbs. One day T was feeling really sick her mom took her to the doctor were he confirmed that T was almost 6 months pregnant. At this point it was too late to have an abortion (this is what her mom was told by the doc) and she would have to have the baby.

T didn't want to tell her mom at first or anybody for that matter how she got pregnant. Eventually she told her mom a few days later who. T's mom was furious since she had been friends of the couple. At first Z tried to say T was lying and said the T had boys hanging around his house and that he caught her with a boy at his house. Basically trying to say that T was very promiscuous. Z's wife (the BS) I will call her K believed her husband from the start and called T a liar. T's mom told them that if the child back to be Z's then she was going to press charges against him for rape.

T feels that her mother didn't totally believe her at first, that is why she thinks to this day that she didn't call the police when she first told her. T has a strained relationship with her mom because of this even to this day. Two weeks before T had the baby, Z and K begged T's mom not to tell the police if the child came out to be Z's. Z and K cried to T's mom that they were afraid that Z's reputation would be ruined and that him going to prison for rape would destroy their family and upset their kids. T's mom agreed not to go to the police on one condition, only if they took the OC and raised it without any financial help from her.

Since T's mom said she couldn't afford or didn't have the patience for a baby in the house. K didn't want to agree with it at first, but T's mom said listen if you don't agree to it and it comes back the baby is Z's, you won't have a marriage because your husband will be going to jail for a long time. The only thing T's mom wanted was periodic updates and pictures of the child. Well the baby came out looking like Z and paternity test came back it confirmed it was Z's. Z and K took over custody of the OC, even though K didn't want to ,but she had no other choice (other then to divorce Z).

Still to this day Z and K are married and raising the OC as their own. My friend T has been really messed up emotionally by the whole situation. She has a very low opinion of married men or men in general. Her relationship with her mom is extrememly strained. Although she was unofficially the OW (but to me she was just a child at 12), I strongly feel that she is more of the victim here then anybody else in this whole situation (including the BS). The reason I feel this way is because BS could leave her husband, but T was stuck in an awful situation with no way out.

Z is a child rapist who belongs in prison. T was raped and forced into the situation as OW (although she was only a child at the time). T doesn't want a close intimate relationship with a man and even hates having pap smears or any other vaginal exams. I have told T she needs to go into counseling. I feel she got a very raw deal.

Younglady..

It seems to me that you have come here with many tales...and not truly were you seeking advice or help.

There are good people here who would try and help you understand, if you are open and desire the communication.

Eibrab

Younglady

I am an OC who found out as an adult that I was one. I found out at 16 also that my dad wasn't my real dad but they left it at that at the time. It wasn't until later, after my mom died, that I got more of the story. My mom was very private when it came to stuff like that, and she never told me the whole story. It frustrates me to no end, but it's life and I chose not to let it get me down.

I haven't met my bio dad and his family. For all I know, he could be dead. So, I haven't had to experience what you are right now. My dad who raised me told me one time he would try to help me find my father, but I declined. I feel that maybe there's a reason I haven't met him. Maybe I'm being protected from some incredible heartache. All I know is right now I have a great husband, three beautiful children, and a wonderful extended family. That is my focus.

I have to say, at your age I had some issues with my "identity". It has improved for me with time. I've quit with the why's and what ifs. Now that I'm in my mid thirty's, it's like a calm has come over me. If your bio dad and your half sibs and aunts and uncles want a relationship with you, by all means have one. Do not let the anger/resentment BW feels towards you stop that one bit. Either she will come around or she won't. That is for her to own.

I didn't read everything you said, don't have time. Have you tried extending the olive branch to her? Tell her you understand her feelings as a wife, but that you are innocent in all of this and all you want is to know your bio family, not to intentionally inflict pain on her. Tell her if you are not her favorite person, it's no skin off your back. You two can be cordial and that's it. There is no need really for the two of you to be best buds.

Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts


You have just been introduced to all the Basic Concepts that I use whenever I try to save a marriage. If you apply them all to your marriage, you will do what most couples want to do, but have failed to do -- fall in love and stay in love. And that's what ultimately saves marriage -- restoring the feeling of love.

Of course, it takes much more than just the feeling of love to build a successful marriage. It takes your willingness and ability to care for and protect each other. But that feeling of incredible attraction is the best litmus test of your success in giving each other the care and protection that you need. If you are both in love, your Takers are convinced that the relationship is a good deal for both of you, and will not interfere with what's going on. Your Givers have free reign to provide each other the best of what you both have to offer.

When you are in love, your emotions help you meet each other's emotional needs. They provide instincts that you may not have even known you have -- instincts to be affectionate, sexual, conversational, recreational, honest and admiring. These all seem to come naturally when you are in love.

But when you fall out of love, everything that will help your marriage seems unnatural. Your instincts turn against marital recovery, and toward divorce. That's why I've created these Basic Concepts -- to help you do what it takes to restore your love for each other when you are not in love, when you don't feel like doing any of them. And then once your love is restored, these concepts will help you stay in love for the rest of your lives.

I present my summary of basic concepts in a slightly different order than they were first presented to you. When they are presented briefly, they're a little more logical when presented this way.

Basic Concept #1: The Love Bank

In my struggle to learn how to save marriages, I eventually discovered that the best way to do it was to teach couples how to fall in love with each other -- and stay in love. So I created a concept that I called the Love Bank to help couples understand how people fall in and out of love. This concept, perhaps more than any other that I created, helped couples realize that almost everything they did affected their love for each other either positively or negatively. And that awareness set most of them on a course of action that preserved their love and saved their marriages.

Within each of us is a Love Bank that keeps track of the way each person treats us. Everyone we know has an account and the things they do either deposit or withdraw love units from their accounts. It's your emotions' way of encouraging you to be with those who make you happy. When you associate someone with good feelings, deposits are made into that person's account in your Love Bank. And when the Love Bank reaches a certain level of deposits (the romantic love threshold), the feeling of love is triggered. As long as your Love Bank balance remains above that threshold, you will experience the feeling of love. But when it falls below that threshold, you will lose that feeling. You will like anyone with a balance above zero, but you will only be in love with someone whose balance is above the love threshold.

However, your emotions do not simply encourage you to be with those who make you happy -- they also discourage you from being with those who make you unhappy. Whenever you associate someone with bad feelings, withdrawals are made in your Love Bank. And if you withdraw more than you deposit, your Love Bank balance can fall below zero. When that happens the Love Bank turns into the Hate Bank. You will dislike those with moderate negative balances, but if the balance falls below the hate threshold, you will hate the person.

Try living with a spouse you hate! Your emotions are doing everything they can to get you out of there -- and divorce is one of the most logical ways to escape.

Couples usually ask for my advice when they are just about ready to throw in the towel. Their Love Banks have been losing love units so long that they are now deeply in the red. And their negative Love Bank accounts make them feel uncomfortable just being in the same room with each other. They cannot imagine surviving marriage for another year, let alone ever being in love again.

But that's my job -- to help them fall in love with each other again. I encourage them to stop making Love Bank withdrawals, and start making Love Bank deposits. I created all of the remaining Basic Concepts to help couples achieve those objectives.

Basic Concept #2: Instincts and Habits

Instincts are behavioral patterns that we are born with, and habits are patterns that we learn. Both of them tend to be repeated again and again almost effortlessly. They are important in our discussion of what it takes to be in love because it's our behavior that makes deposits and withdrawals from Love Banks, and our instincts and habits make up most of our behavior.

Instincts and habits can make Love Bank deposits, so it is imperative to know how to create those habits because once they are learned, deposits are made repeatedly and almost effortlessly.

Unfortunately, many of our instincts and habits, such as angry outbursts, contribute to Love Bank withdrawals. Since they are repeated so often, they play a very important role in the annihilation of Love Bank accounts. If we are to stop Love Bank withdrawals, we must somehow stop destructive instincts and habits in their tracks. Instincts are harder to stop than habits, but they can both be avoided.

As we discuss the remaining concepts, keep in mind the value of a good habit, and the harm of a bad habit, because their effect on Love Bank balances are multiplied by repetition.

Basic Concept #3: The Most Important Emotional Needs

How can you deposit love units into each other's Love Banks the fastest? That's a question I asked literally hundreds of couples when I was first learning how to save marriages. Eventually their answer became clear to me -- you must meet each other's most important emotional needs.

You and your spouse fell in love with each other because you made each other very happy, and you made each other happy because you met some of each other's important emotional needs. The only way you and your spouse will stay in love is to keep meeting those needs. Even when the feeling of love begins to fade, or when it's gone entirely, it's not necessarily gone for good. It can be recovered whenever you both go back to making large Love Bank deposits.

First, be sure you know what each other's most important emotional needs are (complete the Emotional Needs Questionnaire). Then, learn to meet the needs that are rated the highest in a way that is fulfilling to your spouse, and enjoyable for you, too.

It's likely that you and your spouse do not prioritize your needs in the same order of importance. A highly important need for you may not be as important to your spouse. So you may find yourself trying to meet needs that seem unimportant to you. But your spouse depends on you to meet those needs, and it's the most effective and efficient way for you make large Love Bank deposits.

Basic Concept #4: The Policy of Undivided Attention

Unless you and your spouse schedule time each week for undivided attention, it will be impossible to meet each other's most important emotional needs. So to help you and your spouse clear space in your schedule for each other, I have written the Policy of Undivided Attention: Give your spouse your undivided attention a minimum of fifteen hours each week, using the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment. This policy will help you avoid one of the most common mistakes in marriage -- neglecting each other.

This Basic Concept not only helps guarantee that you will meet each other's emotional needs, but it also unlocks the door to the use of all the other basic concepts. Without time for undivided attention you will not be able to avoid Love Busters and you will not be able to negotiate effectively. Time for undivided attention is the necessary ingredient for everything that's important in marriage.

And yet, as soon as most couples marry, and especially when children arrive, couples usually replace their time together with activities of lesser importance. You probably did the same thing. You tried to meet each other's needs with time "left over," but sadly, there wasn't much time left over. Your lack of private time together may have become a great cause of unhappiness, and yet you felt incapable of preventing it. You may have also found yourself bottling up your honest expression of feelings because there was just no appropriate time to talk.

Make your time to be alone with each other your highest priority -- that way it will never be replaced by activities of lesser value. Your career, your time with your children, maintenance of your home, and a host of other demands will all compete for your time together. But if you follow the Policy of Undivided Attention, you will not let anything steal from those precious and crucial hours together.

I suggest that you (a) spend time away from children and friends whenever you give each other your undivided attention; (b) use the time to meet the emotional needs of affection, conversation, recreational companionship, and sexual fulfillment; and (c) schedule at least fifteen hours together each week. When you were dating, you gave each other this kind of attention and you fell in love. When people have affairs, they also give each other this kind of attention to keep their love for each other alive. Why should courtship and affairs be the only times love is created? Why can't it happen in marriage as well? It can, if you set aside time every week to give each other undivided attention.

Basic Concept #5: Love Busters

When you meet each other's most important emotional needs, you become each other's source of greatest happiness. But if you are not careful, you can also become each other's source of greatest unhappiness.

It's pointless to deposit love units if you withdraw them right away. So in addition to meeting important emotional needs, you must be sure to protect your spouse, and the Love Bank, from withdrawals. And paying attention to how your everyday behavior can make each other unhappy does that.

You and your spouse were born to be demanding, disrespectful, angry, annoying, independent (insensitive) and dishonest. These are normal human traits that I call Love Busters because they destroy the feeling of love spouses have for each other. But if you promise to avoid being the cause of your spouse's unhappiness, you will do whatever it takes to overcome these destructive tendencies for your spouse's protection. By eliminating Love Busters, you will not only be protecting your spouse, but you will also be preserving your spouse's love for you.

Basic Concept #6: The Policy of Radical Honesty

It isn't easy to be honest. Honesty is an unpopular value these days, and most couples have not made this commitment to each other. Many marriage counselors and clergymen argue that honesty is not always the best policy. They believe that it's cruel to disclose past indiscretions and it's selfish to make such disclosures. While it makes you feel better to get a mistake off your chest, it causes your partner to suffer. So, they argue, the truly caring thing to do is to lie about your mistakes or at least keep them tucked away.

And if it's compassionate to lie about sins of the past, why isn't it also compassionate to lie about sins of the present -- or future? To my way of thinking, it's like letting the proverbial camel's nose under the tent. Eventually you will be dining with the camel. Either honesty is always right, or you'll always have an excuse for being dishonest.

To help remind couples how important honesty is in marriage, I have written the Policy of Radical Honesty: Reveal to your spouse as much information about yourself as you know; your thoughts, feelings, habits, likes, dislikes, personal history, daily activities, and plans for the future.

Self-imposed honesty with your spouse is essential to your marriage's safety and success. Honesty will not only bring you closer to each other emotionally, it will also prevent the creation of destructive habits that are kept secret from your partner.

The Policy of Radical Honesty combined with the Policy of Joint Agreement are two guidelines that will help you create an open and integrated lifestyle, one that will guarantee your love for each other. They also prevent the creation of a secret second life where infidelity, the greatest threat to your marriage, can grow like mold in a damp, dark cellar.

Basic Concept #7: The Giver and Taker

Have you ever thought that your spouse is possessed? One moment he or she is loving and thoughtful, and the next you are faced with selfishness and thoughtlessness. Trust me, it's not a demon you're up against, it's the two sides of our personalities. I call them the Giver and the Taker.

All of us want to make a difference in the lives of other. We want others to be happy, and we want to contribute to their happiness. When we feel that way, our Giver is influencing us. The Giver's rule is do whatever you can to make others happy and avoid anything that makes others unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. It encourages us to use that rule in our relationships with other people.

But we also want the best for ourselves. We want to be happy, too. When we feel that way, our Taker is influencing us. The Taker's rule is do whatever you can to make yourself happy, and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. If that rule ever makes sense to you, it's because your Taker is in control.

These two primitive aspects of our personality are usually balanced in our dealings with others. But in marriage they tend to take turns being in charge. And that leads to most of the problems that couples encounter. If we take the advice of our Giver, we are willing to suffer to make our spouse happy, and if we take the advice of our Taker, we are willing to let our spouse suffer to make us happy. In either case the advice we are given is short sighted because someone always gets hurt.

Basic Concept #8: The Three States of Mind in Marriage

The Giver and Taker create moods that I call states of mind. These states of mind have a tremendous influence on the way a husband and wife try to resolve conflicts. But in each of the three states of mind, negotiation is almost impossible. That's what makes negotiation, in general, so tough in marriage.

When we are in love and happy, we are usually in the State of Intimacy. That state of mind is controlled by the Giver, which encourages us to follow the Giver's rule: do whatever you can to make your spouse happy and avoid anything that makes your spouse unhappy, even if it makes you unhappy. That rule can lead to habits that may be good for our spouse, but can be disastrous for us because we are not negotiating with our own interests in mind.

Sadly, flawed agreements made in the state of Intimacy can lead to our own unhappiness, and that in turn wakes the slumbering Taker. As long as we are happy, our Taker has nothing to do, but when we start feeling unhappy, our Taker rises to our rescue and triggers the State of Conflict. With the Taker now in charge, we are encouraged to follow the rule: do whatever you can to make yourself happy, and avoid anything that makes yourself unhappy, even if it makes others unhappy. The Taker also encourages us to be demanding, disrespectful and angry in an effort to force our spouse to make us happy. Fighting is the Taker's favorite "negotiating" strategy.

When fighting doesn't work, and we are still unhappy, the Taker encourages us to take a new course of action that triggers the State of Withdrawal. Instead of trying to force our spouse to make us happy, our Taker wants us to give up on our spouse entirely. We don't want our spouse to do anything for us, and we certainly don't want to do anything for our spouse. In this state of mind we are emotionally divorced.

How can couples work their way back to the state of Intimacy once they find themselves trapped in the state of Withdrawal? And once they are back, how can they stay there? The answers to those questions are found in the next Basic Concept.

Basic Concept #9: The Policy of Joint Agreement

Marital instincts do not lead to fair negotiation. They either lead to giving away the store (state of Intimacy) or robbing the bank (state of Conflict). And in the state of Withdrawal, no one even feels like negotiating. Yet, in order to meet each other's most important needs and avoid Love Busters consistently and effectively, fair negotiation is crucial in marriage.

You need a rule to help you override the shortsighted advice of your Giver and Taker. Their advice is shortsighted because regardless of the rule, someone gets hurt. We get hurt when we follow the Giver's advice and our spouse gets hurt when we follow the Taker's advice. So I've created a rule to guarantee that no one gets hurt, and that's the ultimate goal in fair negotiation. I call this rule the Policy of Joint Agreement: Never do anything without an enthusiastic agreement between you and your spouse.

Almost everything you do affects each other. So it's very important to know what that effect will be before you actually do it. The Policy of Joint Agreement will help you remember to consult with each other to be sure you avoid being the cause of each other's unhappiness. It also makes negotiation necessary, regardless of your state of mind. If you agree to this policy, you will not be able to do anything without the enthusiastic agreement of the other, so it forces you to discuss your plans, and negotiate with each other's feelings in mind. Without safe and pleasant negotiation, you will simply not be able to reach an enthusiastic agreement.

Basic Concept #10: Four Guidelines for Successful Negotiation

If you and your spouse are in conflict about anything, I recommend that you do nothing until you can both agree enthusiastically about a resolution. But how should you go about coming to that agreement? I suggest you follow four essential guidelines.

Guideline 1: Set ground rules to make negotiation pleasant and safe.


Ground rule 1: Try to be pleasant and cheerful throughout negotiations
Ground rule 2: Put safety first. Do not make demands, show disrespect, or become angry when you negotiate, even if your spouse makes demands, shows disrespect or becomes angry with you.

Ground rule 3: If you reach an impasse and you do not seem to be getting anywhere, or if one of you is starting to make demands, show disrespect or become angry, stop negotiating and come back to the issue later.

Guideline 2: Identify the problem from both perspectives with mutual respect for those perspectives.

Guideline 3: Brainstorm with abandon - give your creativity a chance to discover solutions that would make you both happy. Carry a pad and pencil with you to jot down ideas as you think of them throughout the day.

Guideline 4: Choose the solution that meets the conditions of the Policy of Joint Agreement best - mutual and enthusiastic agreement.

Whenever a conflict arises keep in mind the importance of finding a solution that will deposit as many love units as possible, while avoiding withdrawals. And be sure that the way you find that solution also deposits love units and avoids withdrawals.

YL:

I will second what Familycomesfirst said.

But ignore the olive branch part, you have probably tried that.

And you can not control her actions with other people.

We all make the choices we make.

And she has made one.

Leave it at that.

Deal with your Bio father and brothers as they are willing to deal with you. And leave it at that. Step away from it all.

You can never make her like you, nor treat you different, nor ask her to not interfere with your relationships with others.

Because you can not control her. Only yourself.

And you do not have to associate with her. Be polite when your paths cross, but leave it at that.

LG

It feels so good to talk to another adult OC. I think that if my mom had raised me with another man who assumed the role as my father (as in your situation) it wouldn't have probably been different.

I sometimes feel that I struggle with my own identity. When I found out I had a genetic condition (at 12) that no one in my mom's family had it bothered me so much. Because I had so many questions, but at the same time I was too scared to ask them. My mom is really not the type to open up either. For many years I blamed myself for the whole situation (stupid I know). I looked so physically different from my mom's family (my other siblings didn't have this problem), that I always kind of felt like the odd person out. When I was younger people used to always ask me if I was adopted.

As far as the olive branch, I have tried with no success. So I gave up a long time ago. I have always been respectful towards her. I know I am doing right by God by always being respectful towards her. But I make it a point to stay out of her way.

You are not a part of her family...she is not a part of yours.

So you can feel, think, judge, react to her choices any way you want with complete immunity and she can make her choices, have her feelings, react to her circumstances any way she wants and it's frankly none of your business.

So what's the problem?

YL27,

If your mom didn't marry until you were 21, where did the siblings come from...? Did you have a father figure in your life?

I can relate to the identity issues. When my mom died I had a lot of trouble in that department. She was only 46 when she passed away, it shocked our whole family and we were realing. Holidays were not the same, we all started having depression issues. That is the time I most considered looking for my bio dad. My dad has always been supportive of me, but I still couldn't shake feeling like an outsider. I too grew up wondering why I looked so different from the rest of my family. It turns out I am a strong mix of my mom and my bio dad. My sisters took after my "step" dad.

It was easy for my parents to fool me because my mom met my SD when I was around 1 year old. SD says he wanted to tell me but my mom never did.

If the BW doesn't want an R with you, it's not your fault. She still harbors resentment over the A, and that is understandable. She sees you and the A is all up in her face. If your bio dad and his family want an R with you, I say go for it!! I actually would love to have that, but I won't waste my time persuing it also. I think the odds of me finding my bio dad at this stage in life are pretty slim.

I hope I am able to help you out. I need to read more of you posts, I just haven't had time. I jumped on the issue with the BW first.

>I am just as innocent as the BS.

Yes you are.

My anger was not towards YOU...the situation YOUR bio-FATHER has created has done this TO HER....no matter if she was the OW before or not.

I would conjecture by your posts that she sees you as an interloper in her territory...in a situation that she has no CLUE on how to cope with (obviously, judging by her reactions and the fact your bio-dad could give a [censored] less as to whom he hurts, as he KEEPS hurting people willy nilly...emphasis on WILLY!)

Do I agree that she is acting out against the wrong person...OMG YES! But I highly doubt she even grasps this enough to ever acknowledge it.

As for dealing with your dear brothers...and I've no doubt they are very dear to you, perhaps you and they should put all your energies into your familial relationships with each other and leave it at that. Judging by your bio-dad's wife's (cos I can hardly call her step-mother...she neither wants or can ever be motherly or kindly towards you I suspect), she is emotionally incapable of dealing with the stresses she and your dad have created...and therefore emotionally incapable of getting beyond this...for anyone's sake. If you love each other, you will have to grow beyond her childishness.

You can, you know? You all can grow beyond this.

As for my anger...it is because I see HER side...I know women and men who have chosen C, have chosen NC...and know the pain of NC even though they, themselves want C.

I don't get my knickers twisted unless somehow one of the above is FOISTED upon the betrayed against their wishes. It is obvious to me that your dad is FOISTING this upon her...whether she stands up to him or not is beside the point. It is quite obvious that she is incapable of dealing with this...and he should know this and take it into consideration.

That he doesn't...speaks volumes towards the kind of man he seems he will always be.

Dunno if I could have my kids around such a person.

Be careful of him...please. He sounds very selfish.

- Kimmy

First, I want to say to Dealan DE.....FANTASTIC!



It is not ok for her to try and control anyone...however, just as you said, she can't control another individual; therefore, the problem is not with her. Your siblings and the other family members need to tell her to back off...that's their place not yours, it isn't your issue to deal with.

((({{{young lady}}})))
Just wanted to send out a little support! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Some of us understand where your coming from.
(And yes, I'm the BS in adulthood ....as well as the Betrayed COM as a youngin ...so I KNOW all too well the "sides" of the situation).



My Goodness,
this is the faulty attitude that is exalted in the pregnancy/child board. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Of course the OC is a relative of your kids.
Your pretending that it is not so,
in NO Way makes it less of a reality.



Agreed,
but NEITHER does this step mother have any Right or even Need to be giving extra Grief to this Young Woman. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
She has issues with the OC's Mother ........fine .......go talk and give her THE What For .......Leave the kid alone.

Young Lady is simply making the best she can out of the Crappy Hand she was dealt.

Wow,
some of the comments on here are uncalled for,
at the very least.
Yep, disappointing! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Young lady,
I don't have time to go through all the pages and posts right now,
but I will endeavor to do so in the coming days.

Hang strong,
and KNOW that you "do" have the right to Know your family .......especially since your ALL now adults and THEY seem to want to know you too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Keep in mind,
There is drama in all Families .......even with no OC .....so don't let this nasty person's attitude Keep you away from an event that the person's holding it WANT you to attend.
Believe me it won't gain you any points in this lady's eyes NO matter What you do, don't do, say, don't say, ect.

So please go,
Be sure you don't antagonize this person .......and pray and forgive her for her treatment of you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

The nightmare for the BS is for the day the OC shows up at our door. Then the humilation of it all comes crashing right back in. Now our COM discover that their father had feet of mud. That he was the victim of a manipulative OW who's only purpose in seducing him was to get herself knocked up since her bio clock was ticking.
No, we do not want you in our lives. If we have managed to rebuild our marriages and move on, then no we don't want it thrown back in our face 18 years later.
You need to learn some compassion. If you are a nurse then consider this, The most traumatic thing to happen in the BS life is an A compounded by an OC. I would have preferred to be run over by a car and spend the next 3 mos. in the ICU on the ventilator, in traction, whatever. Nothing compares to the devastation, despair and humiliation that the A w/ OC causes. Why don't we leave? We know that the only real path to heal is to heal with the help of the one we love (if they are remorseful and dedicated). This betrayal doesn't heal easily and we can't just go find a new relationship for us and our children. I hope that you never have to experience what we have, your attitude toward all betrayed spouses via the military is extremely judgemental. Until you have to make that decision yourself is fact, do not judge us. Most of us never believed that we would have stayed. It is a far harder road, but potentially much healthier for us if we are successful.