Please bear with me as I know this is long, but I believe it is do or die now........

I found out December 16th that my WW 'had feelings for another man' who is a co-worker of hers. I quickly went into 'I'll do anything to save this marriage mode' January 7th was d-day. I had found out she spent the night with him. Needless to say I was devastated, ruined, emotionally crazy, etc. Her family was immediately notified and horrified, as they are very close to their daughter. There have been 2 other d-days since, but I'm sure a few more I do not know about. Ok, sounds like everyone else's sitch right? Not so fast.

My WW said all the usual fog talk all of January 'not in love, I'm not happy, our marriage was a mistake, etc., etc." She moved out Feb 2nd because things here were just not good at all, and she wanted to continue her affair. Well, the OM received an email from WW parents stating in no uncertain terms could he ever be with her daughter and if he continued to, the consequences would be sever. OM replied to email and said he had already cut off contact with my WW and told my WW to work on her marriage and he is sorry for what has happened. Well, my WW would not let it rest. She has continually pursued this man since. Texting daily, goes to lunch with him (with others) begs him to see her etc. He broke down and saw her 2 times since (that i know of), Valentines Day because she cried to him about how I wouldn't be with her and she was lonely and another time because I told her I found out a ton of crap about him and she had to talk to him about it. So I essentially am to blame for that one (kinda, but I know not really)

Anyway, 2 weeks ago, my WW tried to go over there again, but he wouldn't let her in. At this point, I had emailed him myself many times little tidbits of not nice things as well as others. I fully exposed the A to everyone, including their work. Since my wife had moved out, I have only really seen her 3 nights, all by my doing and all in the last 10 days. They were not pleasant, but each time she invited me to sleep with her (not sex or anything close to that). When I was there, I could tell she enjoyed having me there has her 'rock', but nothing further. No emotions no nothing.

This past Friday I 'intercept' an email that says to him "sitting in your old desk is pure torture. I remember the days where I would stand here and talk to you all the time and this is the place where we...well, you know..eh" So needless to say I was devastated, but not fully surprised. They used to Instant Messenger all the time, so I am taking this as he is trying to cut her off as she would of either just told him this to his face or IM's him this. Not an email.

Well, I got confirmation of that two ways. One, she told me she has not seen him in a month because of all the things we (me, my family, her family) are doing to him and telling him he is ruining so many lives. She doesn't dent trying to see him or having feelings for him and Had finally admitted that she "is having an affair". Two, I emailed him Tuesday, as I could not take it anymore. I was at the end of the line emotionally, physically, mentally. I pleaded with OM that he is ruining my life and that I love my wife and just basically everything. Well he responded with "I am not seeing 'WW' and make it point to avoid her at all costs. I respect you and your wishes and go out of my way to avoid her. So in no way am I with her now, ever or in the future. Please understand this. I want nothing to do with her, you or your horrible situation"

Do I believe this garbage, as he has said things like this before, but all the stories from her, him and the email match up to say that he truly is not seeing her and avoiding her.

I agree that it only may be a matter of time before he cracks, but what can I be doing in the meantime to get my wife back? I see this as an opening, as she does not have him meeting her needs. Everytime we talk now, there is just so much pain, I can't not avoid the inevitable "why will you not give me a chance, why do you continue to contact him, etc., etc." So I am love busting all over the place. When I see her (go over to her affair safehouse) it is not comfortable and we end up talking about the affair and us, instead of trying to enjoy each others company, even though each time she invited me to bed. One time I went for a hug/kiss and she turned away. I told her "why are you totally shutting me out. You haven't so much as touched me or anything tonight" to which she said"what , do you want to make out or something" I said "no, but a little affection would be nice. Obviously she is not in a place to give me any. I also saw another email today - a birthday e-card to him - not lovey - but said "your cute" and other teenage type stuff. So, she is still trying and probably is now as she is out drinking after volleyball and I'm sure she will try to contact him again as I talked to her earlier and she was asking if my private investigator was on duty tonight.

When confronted with everything and taken to task, my wife says "she is done and has nothing for me", but when I bring up divorce, she backs off quickly. She has actually been willing to go on a couple dates with me the past week,and spend some time with me. Does anyone see any chinks in the armor that I believe I do?

Do I Plan A the crap out of her now? Its just so hard full knowing she doesn't want me and wants this other man, but I know I can do it. I just need some plan. I have been muddling for 90 days now with no real plan. Needless to say, it has been the longest and most painful time of my life. I don't know how God lets a pain like this exist.

Please help and ask any questions that you feel could help you help me!!!!!!!

I would also like to add a couple thing to my above post:
Up until 10 days ago when I was finally able to see her (Thur. Sun. Mon.), everyday since EA d-day has been unpleasant to say the least and since she moved out we haven't seen each other at all beside 2 times because she had to get something at the house. So I feel that the last two weeks we have made a little progress. We were not even talking on the phone really since we moved out, we talk everyday now, mostly because of me, and because she is going through some sort of withdrawal (I hope). She still sees him at work, but the communication is very minimal from what I understand from them and a co-worker of theres.

Please feel free to make any and all comments/recommendations!

Vince,

I definately wouldn't give up now. This is your time to shine. You need to Plan A the he// out of her.

The first thing you need to do is drop all expectations. Stop talking about R/M. If she tries to start that conversation try to change the subject. Help her get through withdrawl.

You will not get any affection from her right now. She is too fogged out to even think about R/M talk. Alot of what she does say right now will hurt you. You have to be strong enough to not try and debate her on fog babble. If she goes into fog babble just listen and don't engage. Then try to steer the conversation elsewhere as soon as possible.

I am right there with you. My WW got dumped last Fri and came clean with me Sun. She is now starting to let me back into her life, but is still very fogged out. It is go time for us. Right now I am trying to be more of a friend and help her through withdrawl. I am trying to have as much pleasant conversation about anything other than M and spend as much quality time with her as possible. I am doing this with NO expectations. My agenda is simply to deposit love units while she goes through withdrawl.

That is what you need to be doing as well.

Hopefully some of the experts will pipe in shortly.

Good Luck

Thanks BC -
I have been following your story as well...motivation for sure...

I just have this sinking feeling that she is going to eventually convince OM to be back with her. But I guess, if it happens, it happens. Nothing I can do. I think the only thing I can do is steer clear from R/M babble right now and try to make the most out of every conversation we have. She actually called me at 3:00 today for no reason and we just shot the crap and it was real nice. Then at 5:30 when I called her back for something she had called about, I started into all the A talk because of the birthday card she sent him, as it set me off. She actually said "what happened to the person I talked to a few hours ago, where did he go?".

I'd like to think there is hope, but there just has been no signs of anything positive at all....its so hard to continue to be walked on and walked on and walked...especially since I know I can get someone who will not do this to me as I am 30, good looking (ha!) and have a great job....

I guess my self-esteem is so low right now, i feel she is the only one for me.....i don't know...

I hear you. I feel the same way especially since I have been getting attention lately from the opposite sex. Infidelity diet + weight lifting + practicing Plan A on everybody = attention from women.

But, I still love my W and there is a kid involved. So I Plan A and hope for the best.

And yes, my WW admits noticing my Plan A even though she doesn't know what I am doing.

So, find 3:00 guy and lay it on WW every chance you get. Take 5:30 guy and tell him to shut the F up.

You will get your day later. Right now you have to save your marriage.

So Man Up

Now grunt like a caveman and pound your chest.

Vince needed some MAN talk, sorry if I offended ladies

now I'm going light some candles and soak in the tub
J/J

Later

VS,

Boy oh Boy how to say this tactfully. Let me explain something to you. Your marriage is OVER, it has been OVER since she started the affair with OM. You are talking relationship with a woman that is NOT your W. You are wasting your time.

IF and when your W shows up and it will probably be months, then talk relationship. The reality your acting as if SHE has a decision to make when in reality you will have a decision to make. The question will torture you, but is simple "How can I trust and love a woman that has done this to me and our marriage?"

But, that question has to be asked about the woman you married, NOT the woman you are talking to now. Be nice the woman you are talking to now, be pleasant, because she will be going away soon, to be replaced by your W or a void.

THEN, if your W shows back up do you start to discuss recovery. ONLY THEN, are you even in recovery. You are trying to talk recovery with a woman that is NOT your W, and will not be until she goes through withdrawal and becomes your W.

So knock it off. Be pleasant, talk, protect your heart, and wait for your W to show up. If and when she does, THEN you can consider a relationship talk. You sure as heck don't want a relationship with the woman you are speaking to now.

Do this in order. NC, withdrawal, recovery, rebuild. Don't try to do them all at once and don't get the order messed up.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

B/C- That was hilarious! But true at the same time. I need to make a conscious effort. But I truly feel as if I am spinning my wheels here. She DOES NOT want to be with me. There has been not ONE positive step really. Everytime I have seen her, it is at my request or doing. She doesn't say no, but definitely doesn't say yes.

JL -Perfect. I understand completely. Its just so hard to not think of this person you have shared 8 incredible years with, as your wife, but I need to realize she isnt.. Its like, I know that person is in there SOMEWHERE! I agree with your assessment and need to start with that immediately.

Thanks for the advice. I am literally torturing myself everyday. Each day is longer and harder than the next.

Vince - I'm new here as well, and struggling, so I won't even pretend to be able to give you solid advice like the experts here.

Your situation is different than mine...my sitch is still relatively new, and there are different circumstances involved, ie. my wife lives in the home, we have a kid, etc. But what I can tell you is that our WW's have similar attitudes. It's really frightening and confusing when someone just flips a switch like that. My WW did me the favor of just deciding things were the way they were, and then shut down...hasn't allowed me to communicate at all with her. I think she's given me maybe an hour's worth of conversation about our relationship since this whole thing has started. It's as if she's decided that she is the judge, jury, and exectioner...only guess what?...there's no trial. So..I can completely empathize with the mental torture that you're going through...all the mixed feelings of being angry, then being hurt, then going from hurt to desparate, back to angry now. It's a rollercoaster man.

The only thing that I can tell you is that I am glad I found this board, and have a few very understanding friends that allow me to dump on them every couple of days. I think that without the advice on this board, that I would have blown this whole thing up 2 weeks ago by reacting emotinally. The advice that I've received here has allowed me to put things in perspective to some degree, helped me think out a plan to do what I can to attempt to save the M, and helps me put my best foot forward. It's a day by day struggle. At some point though, you and I have to decide what's best for you and I.

Vince,

Now is the time to be strong and not so needy. You are winning the battle against her A. Right now she is in withdrawal. You need to be tough, caring, and have no expectations of your WW. You need to slowly court her like you did when you were dating. You wouldn't tell someone you loved them on the first date, right? Well, your WW has no feelings for you right now, so you need to slowly win her back. I know, it sucks. You need to work toward her having NC with the OM. If she works there, you need to gently push for her to look for another job. Also, do not enable her separate lifestyle. I hope that you are no financially supporting her separation in any way. Just try and hang out with her as much as possible and try and fill her ENs. Did you fill out her questionnaire like you think she would? Have you identified your LBs and are erradicating them from your life? The A is dying. You need to be the strong one and finish it off. It will take a LONG time. Be prepared for six months without any positive signs. You don't need them. We are telling you it WILL work. You just need to try and prevent any contact. You need to be a super sleuth and make there be consequences if she does make contact. Don't get all needy and emotional, just be firm. You WILL make it through this.

Zimm- I agree, it is ultimately up to you and I to decide what happens here, it just so hard to let go. I have tortured myself for 3 months, despite getting advice from this board back on Valentines day (basically when I figured this whole A thing out and whats involved). So its been a little over a month since I have 'known' whats really going on inside her head.

It is a day to day battle, one that I need to start fighting positively.

JMWC95 - I don't know how to make her have any consequences for contact with him. She does not live with me anymore, she rarely calls, and if I say anything regarding that, wouldn't that be a love buster. right now, I am a needly, helpless, begging SOB that has to be so unattractive. There is no way she can like that. I am going to take head with your advice that I have to win her back, but I am going to do it my way. I'm going to move forward with my life and focus on myself. If she calls or gives me the time, then I will react positively. I'm done following her around like a lost puppy. I need to take control of this situation as it has completely dictated my life since the day it began. It is a wonder I still have a job.

Anyone else like to chime in? It feels good to get some replies <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks - VS

Is OM married, and have you exposed to his family or their employer yet? You need to make OM have consequences for his actions, and their employer needs to step in and get them separated. You can even use her family to help you with exposure to these two. If she continues contact (especially at work), re-expose to work. Hold her accountable for her actions. When she yells at you for exposing tell her that you are just doing what you feel you need to do to save your M, and that you are doing it for YOU. Why let her get a rise out of you? You take back control, and she will notice it.

I have exposed to employer. It definetly had an effect on him as he said "that was the final straw' when I emailed his bosses. I have exposed this to everyone I can. Her family was very actively involved, but only so by phone, as they live 6 hours away. I have urged them to do more, but they have not, other than call their daughter constantly and tell her what she is doing is so wrong, they hate the new her and that she needs to work on her marriage. Both parents have contacted OM via email and phone and it has had an effect. It is pretty much 100% my WW making all advance now and he is denying them, as the baggage she come with is too great. Its almost like it is making her want him more!!!!!

I don't know of his family and he is divorced.

What if anything has her employer done? Do they still work together, or is the company large enough to split them up where they won't see each other? Do they communicate via work phones or computer? Some companies have policies against that.

The employer did nothing. My WW went to talk to her boss about missing a meeting and the boss told her I had emailed multiple times, when really I had only once. The boss told me that it was sent to HR for review and thats about it. OM knows this was done as well.

They work for a large company, but they work in a small sub-group of the company, in a team of about 30. So it is impossible to separate them. They work on different teams (hes a developer, shes a writer), but have to interact on some projects occasionally. The hardly ever email, but IM like crazy. But last week she emailed him, so I assuming he has stopped responding to her IM's. As that was the first email I had seen to him in months from her.

If we do some day start to work on recovery, the first thing she is going to quit is that job.

Vince:

This ain't about the other Man.

This is about you and your W.

You need to work a proper Plan A on her.

Don't talk to OM. Tell your IL's to leave OM alone.

Don't talk to W about OM. Tell your IL's not to talk to her about OM.

Because when you tell the Wayward that they can not have the candy and that thier "love" isn't real, they just want it MORE.

So stop giving them Affair candy.

Give your W YOUR CANDY.

Go to her Apt. And take her on a date. Go bowling or roller skating or look at the animals at the zoo. Act like you never met her in your life and you have never heard such marvelous things from a womans mouth before. She speaks R/M... Change the subject. OR Reverse Babble and change the subject, but change the subject!!

Make her think about you as her "Rock" and saviour.

And then do it again. Until either you start winning or you just don't want to anymore.


For whatever stupid reason, she wanted to marry you and be with you 8 years ago.


And for whatever reason, she drifted away, and so did you. She could have called Dr. Harley to figure out what was wrong. Instead, she decided to hump her OM on his desk. Deal with that.

Now start working the Plan A and then get her through withdrawal like J/L mentioned.

Stop HOPING for her to see the error of her ways. And start creating a environment where she will see the error of her ways.

PLAN A
PLAN A
PLAN A

Get her through withdrawal!

LG

Vince,


Your wife will need to get a new job at some point. My wife worked with the OM and we never really started click until she got a new job and then it took 4 months of NC.

You wrote this:
"She actually said "what happened to the person I talked to a few hours ago, where did he go?".

I'd like to think there is hope, but there just has been no signs of anything positive at all....its so hard to continue to be walked on and walked on and walked...especially since I know I can get someone who will not do this to me as I am 30, good looking (ha!) and have a great job...."

Your wife is liking the new Vince, the strong Vince not a whiner. Nobody likes a whiner. Plan A her and don't LB on her.

When you describe yourself you forgot to add shortsighted. Like JL said this woman is not your wife. She will act like a little kid. When you do PLan A you can bring her out of this fog, but it takes time.

you can do this.

PS: My wife told me the same things yours is. Today my wife is very loving and HATES all the things she told me while in her fog state.

OK...it seems like I need to do a couple things here

1. First and foremeost get a grip on myslef. If I am not strong mentally, I will never pull this off.
2. PLAN a the [censored] out of her. No LB's, no A talk, no OM talk, nothing. Not only willthis bring her back, but it will surprise the crap out of her!
3. Expect disaoppointemnt, but look forward to a reward at somepoint down the line, whether it is freedom from this jail ro recovery with my wife. One way or another, something positive will come of this.

All I am doing now is wallowing, feeling sorry for myself and creating a life and ****** I cant escape. That needs to change asap.

I'm heading your advice and want to start immediately.

I have a few questions?

Do I call her?
Do I wait for her to call?
Do I ask her to see her or wait for her to ask to see me?
Do I email little nothings?
Do I tell her I love her when the opportunity exists or treat this as a first date type deal?
How do I start this process?

Thanks again everyone!
VS

Do what you did when you courted her however many years ago. Can you think back on that time? What did you do? How did you act?

I still might have a follow up with HR to see what actions they are going to do to separate the two. Let them know that you expect them to do something, and that your WW keeps harassing OM because she sees him everyday. Don't talk to her about OM, but do what you can behind the scenes to eliminate contact.

VS,

I would find something to do around your area. A car/boat show, bowling, concert anything dif and fun/ light hearted. Dinner out can be hard b/c you two are sitting across from each other trying to think of things to say that are not R, M, A related.

Call her up and tell her that you have tickets for...., wanted to go see a band playing at .... bar. Something like that. Ask her to go with you. Say something like:" Honey I have wantd to go see XXX band play and I'd love for you to go too. Nothing big, just something fun." First date stuff - yes.

No Love Yous right now or for a while. Too much pressure on her right now. You are trying to land a fish here so you can't pull too hard or let out too much slack.

YOU CAN DO THIS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

OK. It sounds like I have to try from scratch to win my wife back.

I have a few things going against me here:
1. She lives 40 mins away now
2. She still wants OM and works with him daily and goes to lunch with him just about everyday (with others)
3. She says she was very unhappy in our marriage and that she doesn't think she could ever come back as I was a horrible person. I wasn't the best, but I was far from the worst and have looked in the mirror and made those changes (well, work on them daily). Everyone I talk to says I'm a catch and I shouldn't be wasting my time. Good job, caring, smart, handsome, etc., etc. never had a problem with the ladies. Not tooting my horn, no one has less self-esteem than me right now!
4. The A.
5. She has our dog, which makes it difficult for her to do too much as she always has to worry about his care (still a pup), (although she didn't seem too worried about the dog when spending nights at OM house). Strike that!

So I have my work cut out for me.

I know I read somewhere if you are my age, the marriage is under 2 years and you have no kids, you should cut and run..??.. What does everyone think about that? Though we were 'married' only 14 months before this happened, we lived together for 5 years previously, so I consider that to be when we were 'married' as we acted like a married couple. The marriage was merely paperwork and a fancy ceremony!

Also, when you all refer to withdrawl, is she truly going through with drawl if she sees him at work and is still constantly beggin to be with him? Going to lunch with him? She's just not getting those nights anymore...
Thanks in advance.
VS