Sounds to me like you missed a great opportunity for some love credits, and a way to show ther that you have changed. Why NOT go out with her when she offers? Instead of worrying about a dog's birthday...worry about working on your relationship instead. Maybe you COULD have said "Hmmm...great idea! I should have thought of that". See...love credits.

Instead, she saw it as controlling. You didn't work WITH her on something minor.

I had to make these kinds of changes too...so I understand your problem. But YOU need to change your thinking process...and start looking at these things as opportunities to show how good things can be with you.

Get the idea?

Dude, a little perspective:

IT'S A FRICKIN DOG!

Your WW says she wants to go out. You have a chance to romance her and wine and dine her and you want to make sure the dog is happy.

He doesn't know what day it is. He doesn't care that you two are separated.

I seriously wonder if you're listening at all to what we're saying to you.

Quit seeking her out. She'll call if she wants to see you. Make plans and go do them and invite her to join you. Be assertive.

Women hate guys that basically say, "I don't know, we can do whatever you want to do."

They want a man with a plan.

Again, though, you're being short sighted. So lets say your W comes back. You have no kids. She comes back and then what? What changes will you make? What will you expect of her?

Don't you think that once your grief plays itself out you will feel resentment and anger over what she's done?

Don't think with your heart. Think with your head.

You're young and married an adulterous woman who thinks nothing of ripping your guts out.

Why would you possibly want her back when you have nothing that ties you to her? There's no kids.

Run the other way and find someone with values.

It's your decision, but you are the cause of your own pain at this point. You will always wonder if she'll do it again. Feel like raising another man's child while she pretends it's yours?

Owl -
I 100% agree and was being serious when I thought it would be better time with her and for us if we spent it with the Dog, something that truly brings us together. So I was only thinking of depositing as many love units as I could in the little amount of time that I will get tonight, and thought that would be the best way.

I immediately did say, "that's fine too, I would love to go to XXX, what do you think?" So that is what we are planning on doing now, going out to dinner somewhere.

I am waiting for the 5 o'clock call that say s"Can we do it another night" or no call at all. And I wont be 'waiting' so to speak, I just know something will happen and we wont go. But I wont be disappointed, as I have backup plans.

VS

vince,

You are going to have to decide if you can live with what she has done to you. Some can and some can't. You are well within your righ to shed yourself of her and find someone more worthy. You need to quit fence sitting and either go balls out to save your M or dump her and move on with life, IMO.

MD- I do listen.

I actually asked her initially if she wanted to go with me to a movie premier that I have tickets to. Then she said "well, you know its Kobi's birthday today?" I said I did know, and that is why I was calling, as I wanted to drop something off for him on my way to the movie and wanted to be sure she would be around. The convo then led us down the road of "well do you want to do dinner" and then the subsequent "what should we do for dinner".

I also understand your take and opinion on "running away from her while I can" - but I wouldn't be on here if that was my decision and choice I wanted to make, so kindly refrain from saying that in every post, as I clearly read it the first time, and understand that is what most people recommend I do here. No kids, married less than 2 years, etc.. I have not made the decision yet to cut this off. I obviously have not done what I need to do to save it either, but that is why I keep posting and keep searching for answers. Hopefully, I will start making it happen, as I feel the last two days I have been pretty good about what i have done. Also, she is not pregnant, like I said above.

Thanks.
VS

HaP - Agree. I'm working on that now. Currently I am on the fence, but trying to do the right things and see what happens.

I think, in a perfect world, I would like for us to both seriously try to find our love for each other again and give this a solid try. If, after some time, we find that we can eiter not rekindle or love, or that we can not get by and let go of what has been done, then we move on. I want to try and let this marriage die with a shred of dignity if that is possible.

Thanks.
VS

Sounds great so far. Now she'll actually be able to have NC which will help her finally withdraw from OM.


Good, way to play it cool so far...


D'oh!!! Don't you realize that was a love buster? Get control of yourself, man.


Okay, that LB didn't do too much damage and you recovered quickly.


Are you trying to make her feel bad she forgot it was your dog's B-day? Drop it already. Thank god she is not pregnant. A scare like that might help pierce through the fog. However, STOP PRESSING! She will share things with you in time.


Are you done? You need to get that thinking out of your system before you interact with her again. Drop this and move on. You can deal with it with her AFTER you recover.


She said she wanted to go out, why don't you listen to her? It is the same old Vince. She says something, but you don't listen. It's a freaking DOG! This is your WIFE! Which is more important? Priorities, my man. She wants to have a nice dinner out tonight with you (say, like a date), and you shoot her down.


Good, what we are saying might be sinking in afterall.


Yeah, we get it, your life is like a Springer episode. Do you want to save your M or not, because if you do, DO NOT TELL HER THAT IT IS LIKE A SPRINGER EPISODE. Major LB. If you want to save your M, your life will be like a Springer episode for the next year. Accept that fact and deal with it. Otherwise, you would be better served getting a D and moving on.

Seriously though, just LISTEN to your WW. What books does she like? What interests her? Do you even know? Who's her favorite author? What is her favorite food or flavor of ice cream? What is her favorite TV show. What does she like to do on the weekends? What subjects can she just talk about endlessly? You NEED to KNOW these things and use them to your ADVANTAGE.

vince:

You haven't called the Harleys yet, have you.

Don't be a fool. You need the pros 2 help you with a plan. Not just us.

-ol' 2long

Very well, you want to get her back.

Does anyone here have a link to the archived story of a woman that executed plan B perfectly and got her H back?

What about the 180?

These are great tools and examples for VS.

They are things you won't really want to do, though.

It means no calling her, texting her, relationsip talk. It means putting on an act for a little while of how you're moving on.

This particular woman had her H believing she was dating, but simply did it by not filling him in on details and by merely acting as if she was on her way places and making him wonder. She received phone calls when he was around that weren't real, but he had no clue.

She made him believe he was really losing her and she got him to come back. It wasn't all fake. She was really going out those times, just not on dates or with men she trusted and who knew she just needed a friend.

How do you dress when you're with her or around her? Dress well whenever you're going to be around her or she's coming over. Be attractive to her. Put on an air of confidence.

And yes, it is very tough because emotions get the best of you in these situations, but don't tell her how Jerry Springer all of this is.

I'm no expert. All I can tell you is that I failed to win my W back because I did everything wrong and I'm passing my errors to you so you learn from them and don't repeat them.

My W stated she wanted me to be a man and be strong. The begging, crying, pleading man I became was very unappealing to her.

It was very hard to be that way when I was dying inside.

Regardless of how you feel, though, appeasement is not an option. Don't fear her anger if you stand your ground on something. She may get angry but will respect you for it.

These are things I didn't do.

That's right, I forgot that you said you were going to call SH. Did you set up an appointment yet? The only reason not to call SH is because you simply can't afford it, but assuming what you said about making fix figures is true, then the $185 per session is well worth the investment. Heck, you should send me and my W on an all expense paid vacation for all this free advice I'm giving you even though you have me pulling my hair out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Vince,

Here are some more ideas. I know that big gifts will not be looked upon favorably right now, but small, thoughtful gifts that show you care AND are paying attention to her will really make major LB deposits. Let me give you some examples.

My WW likes to read, and I when I was over with her, I looked at her bookshelf. I remembered that she had read a couple of those books multiple times, so I figured they were her favorite. So, what did I get her for Valentine's Day? I got her first edition, first printing copies of her favorite books signed by the author. She told me it was the best and most thoughtful gift I had ever given her!

I knew that she liked watching the show Veronica Mars on TV, so instead of getting her flowers for the hundredth time, I got her the first season and we watched the entire thing together (cuddling on the couch) in ONE WEEK! We created a whole new set of positive memories.

I know she is a more artsy person than I, so I made reservations at a murder mystery dinner theater. It was something that I would never normally do myself, but she had a great time! Go look up on your town newspaper's entertainment webpage, and find a listing of events. Make reservations or by tickets for something that you think she would like. Invite her, but if she doesn't go, go with someone else, and you tell her how great it was. Eventually, she'll take you up and you can make new, positive memories together.

So, the next time you are over at her place, be very observant and look for clues for the best way to make deposits in her love bank.

THE 180:

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow spouse around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse – get busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends, etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to move on with your life with or without your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what spouse will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. Show spouse someone they would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how they feel (it only makes their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient
25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with yur spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 5% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because they are hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hard-earned changes

Hi, Vince.

Quote:
===============================================
She was in her same old pissy mood, so asked whats wrong?. She said her stomach hurts. I pressed a little more and she said she stopped taking her pill. I pressed a little more, she said she stopped taking it because she thought she might be pregnant with OM's baby. She said she took a test and that she is not preganat. Wouldn't that have been a nice twist?
===============================================

Another Reality Check

Vince. You need to consider a couple of additional items.

If your wife thinks she is pregnant, she is likely to hedge her bets by developing a sudden urge to have sex with you. Don't do it.

She has been having sex with another man. Unless you are superman, you are not immune to a sexually transmitted disease. Some of them are deadly. Again, having sex with her before a real relationship has been re-establised, and before a full panel STD test is done is extremely inadvisable.

I hope that you have listened to at least some of the advice you have been given in this thread.

I haven't seen anywhere that you have posted your plan, did I miss it or do you still not have one?

Gimble

Tuesday -
WW called on her way home from work letting me know what time she would be home so I could come over. I didn't answer as I was in shower, but called back and said I would leave soon. I picked her up and we went to dinner. The talk was not light. Some laughing, but a lot of R talk, but not like "we need to get back together" etc. More like "how are you feeling about things, what are you looking for , etc." She told me that she is going to Florida with a girlfriend next week and wants me to watch Dog. I told her I would watch the Dog, but I would like something in return, like a little more respect and hanging out. She said she doesn't like hanging out or talking to me because "its not fun" I said "WW, yea, its not fun, but its our life and we need to take this head on instead of [censored]-footing around it like you have for the past4 months". We had a good dinner, she didn't mind the serious talk and we talked about stuff we were doing and laughed a lot and joked with each other. She then said "I want to go to counseling instead of us trying to navigate this ourselves. We don't get anywhere and just talk in circles." I saw this as a major breakthrough. She said "this doesn't mean we are getting back together though. It just means I want to get all of our thoughts and feeling out to a third party. I told her that sounds like a good idea, but that we both need to try harder outside of that. She agreed. I then said something that you all will probably grill me about, but frankly, don't care. I said "I know you still want me around and that you do not want to lose me. You still consider me your rock and want to make sure I don't go away. You do just enough to keep me hanging and when you feel like I may be giving up on you, you throw me a bone". She replied "Duh. Of course I don't want to give up on you. I love you." So I laughed and we drank some more.

We went back to her place after dinner and she did some work and I played with our dog. She finished her work and we talked some more. She was very flirty and said she was very attracted to me at the moment. There was def. a possibility for sex, but I decided against it for many obvious reasons. I'm not a moron. But it could of easily been done. So I left around 11 or so with a very good feeling.

Overall, I now know that I do matter to her and that she has not written me off. For the last 4 months I felt like she had forgotten about me and the times we shared. We talked a lot about our old relationship and why things were the way they were, which was very eye opening, especially for her. I feel a lot more confident now and feel like I can implement my plan of confidence, first date, courting type plan. A modified Plan A if you will.

We made plans for this weekend. I said "I thought you didn't want to hangout with me cause its not fun"...laughing. she laughed and said "well, now I want to". So after I left she text'd me twice, one saying "I love you" and the other saying "Are you home yet". I didn't respond to either as I had my phone off. She then called me on her way to work just to talk and make sure I got home OK last night, which I found pretty odd, yet positive. She just called to shoot the crap and talk. So I got three contacts from her in 8 hours, with me doing nothing. Pretty cool.

So tonight she is at vball and will go out drinking later. Maybe she'll call, maybe she wont. I'm not worried. I'll probably call her tomorrow to see about the weekend and then leave it up to her to make the plans and call me from there.

Any criticism are welcome-
VS

No criticism, just a word of caution.

Don't get your hopes up.

I would also play it cool and let her do more of the contacting. Do some searching for a pro marriage counselor or hire the Harleys. Trust me, the two of you paying $180 an hour is a lot cheaper than each one of you paying $200 + an hour to a lawyer.

I'd say go with the harleys.

I don't know if I'd encourage her to come here. This is your sanctuary and can use this site against you if it goes south, but divorces without kids aren't normally as ugly as those that involve a custody battle, so there may be a lot of benefit to her coming here.

I think others can weigh in on this one.

Good luck and keep it cool and let her do most of the chasing.

I think that leaving her wanting you was a good move.

Mixed signals. I have seen it work both ways. Heartsore's wife kept him on a string for a very long time before she stuck the final knife into his heart not just little stabs.

She probably did that for her own selfish reasons that in turn were very cruel as an outcome for Heartsore. This is an example. I know of others.

On the other hand, maybe she is sincere. I have seen that outcome with mixed signals as well, just not as often. How much punishment can you take and how much can you risk to find out which one it is?

Larry

Hi Vince.

Quote:
===============================================
She then said "I want to go to counseling instead of us trying to navigate this ourselves. We don't get anywhere and just talk in circles." I saw this as a major breakthrough. She said "this doesn't mean we are getting back together though. It just means I want to get all of our thoughts and feeling out to a third party
===============================================

Here comes the wet blanket.

How do you know that she doesn't just want you in counseling so that she can "let you down easily" on the divorce? In other words, using the counseling as a "safe" place. She did make certain that you knew "this doesn't mean we are getting back together though".

Have you ever seen a bull with a ring in its nose? You can lead even a mean one anywhere you want it to go.

In my opinion, you are not in control Vince. You are being played.

I think you should put considerable distance between you and this woman before you commit to do anything. If you do nothing else, at least talk to one of the Harleys.

What's in Florida?

You still don't have a plan, and you are about to run headlong into a false recovery.

Don't have sex with her.

God bless,
Gimble

Vince

I agree with the others, Be very careful

GO hire the Harley's right now!! Don't agree to ANYTHING right now, get the Harley's involved.

Whats $180 or so compared to $1,000's in legal fees if it all goes south.

The marriage counselor your choose is the key. Get a bad MC and they will lead your WW to D. Get a good one (like the Harleys) and they can lead your WW back to the M. She is trying to re-engage you. It seems to me like she "needs" a man to latch on to, and since OM is no longer available, she's headed back to you, BUT she doesn't want to have to make any commitments or have to deal with the pain she caused you. This is where you need to make her want to commit back to the relationship. This consists of meeting HER ENs, avoiding LBs, and not expecting much in return. If you do get back together it will be a LONG journey home. Expect at least 6 months of absolutely NOTHING.

my question is... why would you want her back now?? I mean she has certainly made it clear by her actions that you were not her 1st choice. I just have a hard time accepting that a BS should be so open to taking back a WS who is only there because she got dumped by her OM.

I just don't get it.