stating that you were acting immature based on your actions is not name calling.

Vince,

I would like you to understand that I probably came across wrong when I stated that it was getting old about hearing you cry about this and that. Wasn't what I meant and it seems to be the problem with written communication is that sometimes the thrust of what you wanted to say is lost.

What I'm trying to say is that if you still have that strong of feelings for her (crying about her, longing to see her, texting many times a day, etc) then I would think the last thing you would want to do is to not answer her when she calls.

And yes, I may have misinterpreted your post as well. It seemed as though you were being vindictive in how you were being with her. As if to say "since you are blowing me off, I'm going to blow you off too". Obviously by your clarification that isn't what happened.

Also, you should indeed be making plans and enjoying life and not sitting around wallowing all the time. So you might want to consider in the future maybe setting a deadline (politely) with your WW that if you haven't heard from her by such and such a time that you assume you aren't getting together at all. And frankly, with the amount of times she has blown you off, I'm not sure how many more times I would put up with that anyway.

In closing, let me say that I appologize for coming accross as rude or judgemental. It really wasn't my intention. I think it is easy at times to sit back and read a situation that someone is going through and then forget that this is someones life and that every decision made can essentially either strengthen or weaken their chance at reconsiliation.

I hope you can find peace through this and finally make a decision about this and ride it as far as it can go. Either way God bless you as you continue to try through this.

Thanks PastorSteve. Appreciate it. I understand what you are saying. Sorry I didn't communicate that more clearly and I do truly long to be with my WW and show her the man I can be, as frustrating as this situation gets for me sometimes.

I agree, I should set a deadline, and more than likely, I really should of called her to say I was going to do something else that night. But I truly believed two things: 1. We were not going to do anything based on past history and the fact that is was an hour before I was to see her and I hadn't heard from her as she said she would call/email me. 2. I REALLY didn't want to come off as needy by calling and asking when we were going out, if we were still going, etc. I wanted to make it seem like I wasn't needy and that it wouldn't destroy me if we didn't go out. In hindsight, I really wish I would not have forgotten my phone and none of this would of happened.

As for yesterday, I called her at 5pm and left a message apologizing and asked her to call me when she got home from v-ball. Expectedly, I received no call. I also left in my message that I would like to reschedule our plans for tonight if she wasn't busy. So, I'm going to try and make up for my 'mistake' tonight if she allows it. If not, no big deal.

Thanks for the continued support.
VS

VS,

I'm at a bit of a loss on what to tell you because I can relate to so much, but your situation is a little different than what I went through.

Here's the thing about spending time with her:

It's an illusion and it's only hurting you.

My ex and I went out every single Friday night. We went to movies, held hands, walked around arm in arm. All of it was to allegedly make it easier for me and to part on good terms. Little did she know that this would actually make it much harder, but I was hanging on to every bit of hope. The dates were exercises in self torture. I would sit with her and want to ask tons of questions about the marriage, the relationship, etc.

All I'm saying is that you need to be cautious.

Don't buy cards and flowers. I understand why you want to and might have even done it myself, but I wouldn't do that until she shows some reason to deserve affection from you.

Look at how much it threw her for a loop that you were doing something without her. Granted, a courtesy call to her would have been in order, but it threw her for a complete loop.

I would apologize, but don't overdo it.

What we're suggesting is that you not be the one bugging her to do things. If she makes plans and calls you about them, that's a different story.

The way to get control back here is to do as some of the other threads I've given you have suggested.

Let her be the one chasing you. It's the way to get her back. Give the illusion of moving on.

Best of luck.

Broken - 10-4 on that.

I'm working hard on this. I really am. Giving her a card and flowers is just me. I know she doesn't deserve them, but its me. I dot hose things. I'm trying to win my wife back and feel that a nice gesture like that can show her that she could be missing out on a great love. On the other hand, I totally understand how that can be perceived as she has me eating out of the palm of her hand. Its a fine line we walk here.

I just miss my wife so much, I want this WW to go away so badly. There was a few moments Saturday night and Sunday morning that felt like the 'old us', and it felt great. I know that is never coming back, but its times and crumbs like that which keep me engaged.

I completely understand that being with her is only making it harder. That in itself is a fine line. But, I know in order to try and reconcile, I have to spend time with her, as much as I can. Yes, I am making it harder on myself, and more than likely setting myself up for disappointment, but I'm not giving up yet, and understand this is a necessary evil I must endure right now in order to try and pull my WW out of the fog she is in.

VS

Oh, man, cards and flowers?

I won't tell you to never do it, but think of it from a "dating" perspective:

Say you've gone out with woman once and you are definitely into her, but she's lukewarm on you. Sending that woman cards and flowers is almost guaranteed to backfire. It's the truth. Trust me. When you send those things you're saying "I like you will you please like me too?" Many women, without even realizing it consciously, will interpret this behavior as approval-seeking, and a man who seeks approval is not the man they want.

Similarly, a WW could interpret your sending her gifts like this as groveling, and nobody likes a groveler.

Naturally, this is not a woman you're dating, so the comparison is imperfect. But her mindset about you is similar. Keep that in mind when you do these things.

I'm not telling you "Don't do it." Just be aware of the pitfalls.

There's a difference between being interested and being desperate. Try to be interested but not desperate.

Vince, MEDC is helping you. Think seriously about what he's written without letting yourself be hurt. He isn't throwing rocks, he's hitting you with a board to make sure you're paying attention.

GC

VS,

I'm the same as you. I get flowers and cards and other little things. But they are right about how she interprets this.

You aren't intriguing to her in the least. No mistery there for her.

I almost feel like you shouldn't have to apologize for what you've done. Her behavior so far has been all about what she wants. You're the choice if she doesn't find something better to do.

You are still in a state of denial. Trust me, the next phaze is anger and it aint pretty. Once you realize she isn't going to come back and is just stringing you along, that's when the anger will kick in. Right now you're living off the crumbs and letting it fuel your hopes.

Well, a person can't live off of crumbs for long, which is where you Plan A is right now.

Her affair has ended, but she's either in withdrawl or fence sitting. She is still looking to see if the grass is greener elsewhere. Your grass isn't looking so good and I guess that is our dilema to try and figure out. How do we get your grass to look good.

I was reading "Man's Search for Meaning" (MSFM) today and I got to the part where he starts to explain his logotherapy theory.

It made me think of your situation and about the types of questions you need to ask yourself.

Remove your W from the equation and from your emotions and ask yourself the following questions:

1. What is your ultimate goal in life? Do you wish to be a father, raise a family in a religious setting or with whatever morals you wish to instill in them? Is your goal professional? Make a ton of money? Become a CEO? Doctor? Lawyer? Professional?

2. Does your wife fit into that plan? This question is cruscial. It's not if you WANT her to fit, it's DOES she fit?

The answer to these questions will give you the guidance you need on what path to take.

If she came back to you tomorrow, you will then fall into the recovery problems BSs face. I've never been there, but I can imagine that once the shock of all of this wears off and the denial is over, then anger sets in and manifests itself in many different ways. For example, my father came back to my mother after multiple instances of infidelity. He came back ready to work on the marriage, but expected the old W, not the one he created.

She wanted to protect her heart from future acts on his part and she distanced herself once he returned. She started working out like crazy, flirting with other men, etc.

There will be a backlash phaze for you once this "what the ****** is happening/this can't be happening/where is my wife" phaze is over.

You have no kids, VS. Think real hard about what you wish for. You may just get it if she comes back and then you find yourself with a woman that thought very little about cheating on you.

I'm not telling you what to do, but hopefully give you some things to chew on. Those questions are very important to answer and answer honestly. "Time to get real" as Dr. Phil would say.

Remove your emotions from this whole thing when you answer these questions.

Gotcha graycloud. Its been 8 years since I have had to worry about dating. I was just trying to say thanks for spending the night with me and let her know that it meant a lot to me. I listen to what everyone says, but unfortunately i don't respond well to board smashing across my face! I know I need it, but its not what is going to help me right now. Maybe nothing can.

Broken, my dream/goal in life was to always be a provider for my family. That means to be successful, but to have a logical work/life balance. My WW was the epitome of what I wanted in a wife and a mother. Both qualities I really am picky about. She fit the bill perfectly. That is why it is just so hard for me to comprehend what happened here and where we went wrong. She was not the type of woman to be promiscuous or hurtful or anything. This really came out of left field obviously, but I guess this is really her true colors. You would think after being with someone for 8 years, you would have a good feel for someone, but I guess not.

So, before all this, YES, she fit into my goal for life. Now? I can't be sure. She has shown me a side of her that is the opposite of what i look for in a woman. Is this the fog? Is this her? Is she capable of this again? I have no idea.

And yes, if and when we ever get to recovery or get to place where we are BOTH trying, I have no idea how this will manifest itself in both of us, or how we will react. I can guarantee it wont be pretty, but I would really like to try.

Thanks broken for your continued support.

VS

vince:

For several months after d-day... ...heck, for about a year after d-day, my W worked 2-4 days/week about 2 hours north of here. I used 2 go up and spend a night with her during the middle of her time up there, every single week. Each time I went up, it was after work. We have a big yard with lots of flowers, so I'd swing by the house each and every time and pick a few flowers and put them in a jar for her.

They were always appreicated, as were most of my trips up there (One was her idea, and she didn't know at the time that I knew that Rat Meat was planning on being in town at that time, and that she asked me to come up so he would stay away).

In the end, though I have a few fond memories of her reaction 2 the flowers and my visits, I don't think they made a damn bit of difference 2 my sitch, except perhaps 2 put off real recovery.

Something 2 remember.

-ol' 2long

Thanks 2long, I hear ya.

I'm really feeling defeated today. After not seeing her Tuesday, I feel I blew a shot of making some positive progress. I asked her to reschedule yesterday night, as I called her yesterday morning to see if she would like to, to which she was very shady about.

WW-"I'm busy. I don't want to."
VS - "well, what are you doing?"
WW- "I don't have to tell you."
VS - "Well thats not very nice. Why wont you tell me what you are doing?" Thats odd"
WW - "Cause I don't have to tell you. I'm not doing anything. I just don't want tot hangout. Maybe tomorrow."
VS - "OK, thats fine. Maybe tomorrow night then"
WW - "Maybe"
VS - "ok, I'll let you go, have a great day baby".
WW - click

She then sent me an email later that morning apologizing for her rudeness and that she was tired and grouchy.

So, I am not sure if I will follow up with her today. I think I'll let her take the ball here.

VS

VS, she's playing mind games with you. The question is, will you let her?

Make those plans, VS. Get out there.

Trust me, when you get past the pain, you see that there is a whole world full of women and plenty of good candidates. A fresh start with someone new. I'm really enjoying that right now.

You're not there but I promise you would be if you dump this wayward.

Hook up with a female friend. Someone you know doesn't want anymore. Take her out and have a friendly conversation. Heck, talk about your W all night. It'll feel better than sitting around pining over whethere the W will call or not.

It's a nice world with good women, VS. Come on over here. The grass is pretty green once you get past the pain.

Wow- does THAT sound familiar! Me too! Just out of the blue back in December 2006 and since then it's been full tilt craziness to the point I'm at now.

Quick update -

Made plans with friends both Friday and Saturday night and had a really good time. Saturday night we all went out for a friends 30th, and I saw a ton of people I haven't seen in awhile, and it felt good to get a lot of lady attention. Obviously I didn't do anything, just harmless talking, but it was nice to 'get back out there'. I had wanted to go out with my WW this weekend, but she never returned my text message Saturday night, so I left it alone, didn't do my usual follow-up. She actually did call back Friday night saying that she didn't want to do anything that night, so...whatveer. Going to let it cool off for a few days, and let her call me.

I was hoping I could come over after going out Saturday night, as I was going to be right by her house, but she never responded to my text message asking if I could stop by. I am almost 100% certain she has re-kindled her affair or is seeing another man. I have no hard proof, and I just don't have the means I used to, to really investigate this time unless I hire a PI. She has changed all her email passwords and such. I just don't know what to do anymore. She has made it real clear she doesn't want to be married, and seems to be following it up with actions. I can tell by her actions and words that she is getting her EN's met somewhere else. When OM stopped contact with her before, she was calling and seeing me often. That is not happening anymore. Combined with the late night call from some guy last Saturday night, I really think she is seeing someone else. So.......may be time for the BIG D.

VS

Sorry, bro. This sucks, but you saw for yourself that there's plenty of women out there that you could start fresh with.

How are you doing, vincestrong?

Vince,
Let's say you were not already married to WW, but DID know everything you know about her. Would you even consider dating her? Is she giving you anything to fall in love with?

Don't rush to D because you feel rejected, but set some sort of timeframe on how long you think you can be there for the WW, then if the relationship is not somehting that you are satisfied with, end it.

I have been away for a while, but are you in Plan B? Totally dark? If so for how long? May want to try that to prolong the existence of whatever you have left for WW. You need to be in control of the situation and yourself. Don't react to what WW is or is not giving you. Write it all down and look at it to reinforce your resolve.