use the search tool and search for "vehicle tracking" in subject line, newer than 5 weeks

Orchid - Thanks for the suggestion. I'm not sure how well it will work in my case but I'm certainly willing to give it a shot.

Tired:

Orchid is the pro on REVERSE BABBLE

Follow that link on her post and find out more.

Careful in its use until you understand what it is all about, you RESVERSE BABBLE the WS when they speak FOG-talk, and you Plan A them the rest of the time.....

LG

OK. So yesterday I ordered "Getting the Love You Want" and mentioned to my W that it was highly recommended and that perhaps she could read it also. She said "OK", half-heartedly but nevertheless.

I also contacted, and had a brief phone consultation with, a counselor who specializes in Imago therapy.

Later, W went to the store and was gone for what seemed like more time than should have been necessary but I could be making more of that than I should.

At the end of the evening I told her that I had contacted a counselor. She seemed marginally interested in that, asking the name, how I found this person, etc.

Then I asked her if "there is anyone else" to which she replied "where did that come from? your counselor?" and then "no, there is no one else". End of discussion.

It frustrates me that she didn't provide any affirmation of her feelings for me. Even a simple "i love you" would have meant a lot.

Should I read anything into any of this or is that just a waste of time and counterproductive?

I don't know if there's much to read into her behavior other than a degree of apathy.

What I get from your description of your wife's behavior is that this is basically a long term problem which has gotten worse in the last few years.

If she is willing to go to counseling with you (or separately) that is a promising sign. At this point you can't help but wonder if she has enough desire to save or improve your relationship to make whatever changes in behavior are necessary. People tend to go to counselors thinking the counselor will help them persuade the other spouse to make changes, rather than considering what they need to change in themselves.

Thanks Hiker. Apathy I think accurately describes her attitude toward our relationship, at least as far as I can tell. She has never been able/willing to communicate openly with me about her feelings, hopes, dreams, etc so I am usually left to guess, speculate and wonder what is going on in her head.

Sorry if my previous post was unclear. She is NOT willing to go to counseling, either with me or separately. She did say that she would read the book. We'll see. Twice she has referred to the counseling as being for me rather than for us. I expected this. She has never been willing to concede that any of her behaviors are anything but normal and reasonable and that I must have a problem if I can't deal with them. Ah, good times.

I think you are in a tough spot.

You feel there is something wrong with your relationship that needs to be fixed. Your wife seems to be satisfied with the way things are, other than she believes you need to deal with your own issues of trusting her.

Her behavior doesn't lend itself to feelings of trust. In fact, if she isn't currently having an affair then it is probably only a matter of time before she does.

Let's see if the counselor can suggest something you can change in your own behavior that may affect how she reacts to you in a positive way. Somehow you need to create a desire in her to improve your relationship.

Thanks Hiker. I am hopeful that the book/counseling will lead to some change on my part that result in improvement in my relationship. Guess I'll just to have wait and see, hope for the best, and avoid driving her away. I am really concerned, though, that the next time she has, for example, a night out with friends I will find it very hard to stay quiet. Is there some unoffensive, respectful way I can tell her that staying out late and with a group that includes other men creates a problem for me?

She already knows this bothers you; that fact isn't going to prevent her from doing what she wants at this point because she isn't terribly concerned about your feelings.

You need to stop reacting to what she is doing and focus yourself on something else. You aren't going to be able to control her behavior by expressing your displeasure no matter how respectfully you do it.

When she goes out, take the kids out to a movie, visit relatives on an overnight stay, have your own party with the kids and their friends at home. If you get too caught up in what she is doing it will drive you crazy.

You are trying to hold on to her by attempting to control her behavior; that won't work. You need to rekindle her desire to please you. Start by pulling back some. Show her by your actions that you are quite capable of enjoying life without her.

Follow the Plan A concept; be a good husband but not a needy one.

Hiker - Thanks again. I'll read up on Plan A. Your suggestions as to how to handle her nights out include things that I have been doing to cope with this over the many years that it's been a problem. I will continue to do those things as I work to improve myself. But, I am also feeling pissed off that she continues to do this knowing that it hurts me. From the responses to my original post and from what I have heard from my friends over the years it seems that it is reasonable for me to be upset about this to some degree. My unhappiness is not solely a function of my trust issues. At some point is it appropriate for me to say to my W, "I think what you're doing is disrespectful and I think for the sake of our M you should stop"? I would gladly acknowledge to her, and have in fact, that I don't handle breaches of trust very well but does she not have some responsibility here as well?

I have to travel next week and I know I will be consumed by worry over what she is doing while I am gone. On a recent trip she had a 3-hour lunch with a male friend and didn't tell me about it until my 5-year old mentioned it upon my return. Can I not say to her something like, "gee I hope that you know that you can tell me you are having lunch or going out at night and that learning about it in a way that makes it seem like a secret is hurtful."

I hear you about not being needy and I understand why that would be a turn-off but I feel that what I need is to know that my W loves and respects me and our M.

I agree that it is reasonable for you to feel this way. It is clearly unreasonable for her to knowingly engage in behavior that upsets you.


This is a bad sign. The longer a marital problem like this exists, the more difficult it is to resolve.


You could say that. Do you think it would accomplish anything? If she is having an affair it would likely cause her to work harder at keeping her activities secret; if she is not having an affair it will just reinforce her notion that this is your problem (trust).

I think you should start keeping a journal of these activities. Continue looking for evidence of an affair, but set aside any complaints about her behavior until you are certain she is cheating. If that happens, you will need to take decisive action.

I think you need to prepare yourself mentally for the possibility that the solution to your dilemma may require a long term separation (Plan B). It is possible that if she thinks she will lose you she will make an effort to do what is necessary to save the marriage.

Thanks.

The possibility of a separation is a tough one because of the kids. First of all I don't know that I could handle being apart from them. Second, even if my W were to leave (that seems very unlikely BTW) my kids, my youngest D in particular, would be crushed. I don't think I could put them through what I went through as a child.

I hate feeling like I need to check up on her (and there is no doubt as to how she would react if she knew that I did) but this is driving me nuts.

Since she knows that I have contacted a counselor I could easily suggest that we complete the EN and LB questionnaires from this site. Do you think there would be value in that?

Yes. That is a good idea. It's a great way to move towards some solution.

Separation when children are involved is extremely difficult, but it may be necessary for your marriage to continue. You would stay with your children or take them with you and work out arrangements with your wife. The separation would be done with a view to ultimately saving your marriage and making it better.

But as I say, you're not there yet. The questionaires, the counselor, Plan A, and working on yourself are all good things to be tried first.

Check the 'Spying 101' thread for details.

I have been playing around with Mologogo (www.mologogo.com) and it's incredible.

The phone was around $20 on ebay + a $12 cable. Software and mapping is free from mologogo. Data service from BoostMobile is $0.35/day! You can have location updates every 5 minutes on a web browser. Accuracy is great even when the phone is stuffed down where the jack goes.

I wish I had this when I had real problems.

tiredinmd - I tried to PM you but it didn't work. PM me back if you want help re: GPS. Let me know where you are; I may be close!

So I read "Getting the Love You Want" over the weekend and found it to be very enlightening and was hopeful that my W's agreement to read it might lead to a turning point in our R. Now I am angry/disappointed because W was looking on the bookshelf this morning for something new to read and when I mentioned something about the book I just finished she just kind of quietly dismissed the idead and continued looking for a mystery novel. I didn't say anything but feel like I want to let her know how I feel about her decision. I had even mentioned to her the other day, in a completely no-pressure way, that I found the book very interesting and potentially helpful. She had previously agreed (albeit in what seemed a less than enthusiastic way) that she would read the book.

I have also started to come around to thinking that to a large degree I have myself to blame for not communicating or enforcing any boundaries with my W and for the first time I have been thinking that continued lack of interest on my W's part in working to improve our M may cause me to consider if I really want to be with this person.

Our family is preparing to take a spring break trip next week and I am resisting the urge to share some of how I am feeling with my W before or during the trip. It just seems like poor timing. On the other hand I feel like I have kept a lot of these feelings inside for close to 20 years and I have an almost overwhelming need to let them out.

Have you and your wife done the Emotional Needs Questionaire yet?

That would be a good way to initiate a calm discussion about feelings.

No we have not done the ENQ yet. I thought it would be less threatening/controlling and easier to ask her to read the book and hope that she would find something in it that would resonate.

This reluctance to read the book (and I know it has only been a few days but this morning was a perfect opportunity to at least feign interest) is completely consistent with her view that this is my problem.

TiMD,
I haven't read you whole situation, but are you in PlanA?

GameFace - I don't know. I am new here and am not sure of the applicability of Plan A to my situation. I do not know that my W is having an affair but do know that she is, to use a phrase that I recently came upon, "emotionally unavailable" - at least to me. Lots of superficial niceness, SF when I initiate, some cuddling in bed, but no open and honets communication and plenty of IB that I feel (and others here seem to agree) is disrespectful of me and our M.