So many things I would like to get advice about, but I'll try to keep it to two main issues: (1) triggers from being a BS & suriving a rather cruel WH; and (2) working to create a good relationship and keep it progressing.

(1) For background, I went to IC to help me deal with the A/WH. After the D, I continued IC and took plenty of time to heal before I felt ready to date. Since then, I've dated a bit, some longer than others. I work a lot so I didn't date around, plus I want to date quality guys. Sorta gave up on the idea of meeting anyone in the next 10 years, but then met a great guy. We've been dating regularly since then and now we are "exclusive."

Here's the problem: I'm triggering left & right about infidelity. We have discussed trust & honesty & fidelity more than once, and the conversations go well. However, inside I'm severely triggered about things -- maybe I sense he is pulling away, or less affectionate, or a little more cranky, or a strange phone call, or a comment his friend makes to me, or something his does -- it's setting off alarms. I didn't feel so triggered with other guys I dated since the D, even if I did notice the triggers. Perhaps it's because this is the first guy I REALLY like since my ex. Also, it could be because he is moving back to Europe in June and I'm anticipating that rejection feeling. We've talked about -- and his words & actions are good -- so I may be overreacting, or I may be sensing something based on prior experience. Has anyone else had to deal with this?

(2) I can live a relatively happy life as a single person. However, I admit that I would like a good, fulfilling relationship. So, here I am, several months into a new and good relationship. Things are going well (except for my own personal triggers) and I WANT to move this relationship forward, yet I feel at a loss as to how to do that. I'm not sure how I ever got to that point with my ex - it seems so young & hapless looking back. If I met my ex now, I don't think I would date him. Instead, I would want to date the guy I'm with, except I'm not sure how to help the relationship develop. I feel stupid just asking this question, but one thing that I have learned from MBuilders is that we don't all have natural abilities to create good relationships and some of us have to learn relationship techniques. So, how do I help a relationship progress?

Thanks

Nev, are you sure it's really triggers and insecurity and not your intuition? Don't ignore or rationalize your alarms. I would hate for you to chalk it up to triggers and that not really be the case. Keep alert.

If his actions are good, and you are still "alarming", then I say maybe you haven't quite healed yet. How long have you all been dating? It takes time to build trust. More so for us BS.

As for moving the relationship forward, I'm a bit confused....he's moving to Europe, yet you want to move it forward? Will you be going also, or will this be a LDR?

Ditto what DW said - if you haven't had these "triggers" with other guys you dated, and you do now, it is likely your gut telling you something, rather than a "trigger" - never ignore your gut. Also, wassup with him moving to Europe - how do you plan to "move forward" with you here and him in Europe?

AGG

Thanks for the answers. I felt a bit foolish asking these things.

Triggers -
I've noticed them at times with other guys I've dated. However, either I didn't notice as many or didn't get as upset about them because I wasn't as interested in those other guys. Honestly, there are times when I know it was a false alarm, and times when I think the trigger is valid. My conclusion goes back & forth.

Another thing that may be a factor...when we first started dating, we were not "exclusive," which was fine because I prefer to move slow. Perhaps knowing that he was dating others at that time is adding to my triggers. Logically, I know it was acceptable and good to go slow, but emotionally it feels very uncomfortable & actually hurts a little.

As far as getting over the BS triggers - is it really possible to not be sensitive to those things again? If so, please tell me how. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Moving/Europe -
Well, his job may require him to move back home around mid-summer, or it may be another 12 months. Also, we both may end up in London (due to our jobs) by the end of the summer. Even if his job moves him back home and I move to London, we would only be an hour apart. It is all up in the air at this point.

When the issue first arose (unexpectedly for each of us), it was too early to make any decisions - especially since we may both still be here for the next 12 months. So, we decided to put that issue aside, not let it pressure us, and continue getting to know each other. I realize we are approaching a time when we need to discuss whether to continue dating and whether to make efforts to stay closer to each other and see what happens. In an ideal world, that decision would not arise until we've had more time to date, but I guess we're not so lucky.

I no longer believe in things like: "if it's meant to be, it will work out." I've learned from my whole BS-experience that the things you do, and don't do, are what makes a relationship, not things like "fate." Maybe "fate" brings two people together, but things will not "work out" unless they both make the effort and treat each other right. I'm also not a big fan of LDR, as I think it's difficult to meet ENs, especially when we both have RC & affection as top needs. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> So, I realize the prognosis is not good given the job situations, and yet neither one of us wants to just throw it away. If he moves & I stay, then it's probably over. I also don't think he is willing to change jobs given that it's his dream job. I would be willing, but I would need to have things progress more before making such a change.

ok, any thoughts/advice are appreicated - thanks

neverthesame,
Can you be more specific about this? What forward movement would you like to see? What would progress look like to you?

good questions Curious...

I would say that forward progress IN GENERAL would mean having more time together to deepen the relationship and see how we feel about the future. I don't expect either of us to be willing/able to make a permanent commitment by mid-summer, but I would like us to be at the point where we see a potential future for "us" and we are willing to clear away obstacles (long distance) and give that potential a chance.

Progress on more specific terms is harder for me to define. Guess I would say...
1. continuing to get to know each other...our views, values, habits, etc
2. see how we react to different situations/things/each other (we have done a good job of this, in general)
3. if 1 & 2 continue to go well, then our feelings would naturally deepen

Seems to me the above stuff, whether general or specific, takes TIME. While we seem to be great together (we meet each other's ENs very well and no LBusting), I'm not sure we have enough time to build the relationship before one of us may move far away. I'm not sure how fast the Love Bank fills up for the average person - anyone know the answer?

So, I'm not sure what to do between now & mid-summer to either (1) know that we should invest more time or (2) know that we are not throwing away a great relationship by NOT investing more time. As I said before, I don't believe things just "work out" if they are meant to work out. I believe that you can ruin a good relationship if you don't take care of it, and I think that fits in with Harleys advice on 15 hours, ENs, etc.

thoughts? advice? wisdom?

I'm curious, how long have you been dating this guy so far?

AGGuy - 5 months since we first met, dating regularly from day 1, but not "exclusive" right away (as discussed above). That's not long, I realize. However, we easily meet each other's ENs (even down to same RC sports), no LBing, etc, etc. It's been great so far and I would really like more time to see what happens instead of just tossing it aside for reasons not directly related to the relationship (i.e., a job transfer). I appreciate your comments/thoughts...

Hmmm, it's a toughie. Five months is long enough to get attached, but is it enough to start chasing each other around the world. Kinda stinks, doesn't it?

I guess at the risk of stealing Wiftty's mantra, what about not worrying about where things might go come summer, and just continue getting to know him one day at a time? Does it have to be all or nothing right now? I know it's harder than I am making it sound, as it is frustrating becoming more and more invested if you see a closed door on the horizon, but you never know - a door that looks closed today, might open tomorrow.

I'd say if things are going well, if you enjoy his company, then enjoy his company - don't obsess about the future. Now, if I could only follow my own advice....

AGG

LOL!

AGG, next time i am in Orange/LA, i will make dinner arrangements. Last time i was there, I ate at a restaraunt over the Kodiak theater, wasn't the best and expensive, but the waitress put on a great "I am an actress in waiting routine."

wiftty

Nev ~ Are you the type of person who really hates to invest a lot of time/energy/emotions in someone without a pretty sure bet of it working out?

Hi HF, Hope you are well. To answer you question, no. Perhaps I should be, though, as you'll see from my update...

Update: Well, a friend of mine passed away in a car accident three days ago. My boyfriend comforted me & we each expressed appreciation of each other, how we were glad we met, etc. The next day he asked what I needed from him and he would give it. All super sweet & loving.

Then last night he breaks up with me. He said he knows it's bad timing (I'll say!). His reasons are that (1) he has been burned in the past with people moving during relationships and can't go through that again; (2) he doesn't believe long-distance relationships work for him for very long; (3) he is moving back home to his friends & family and away from me, he feels sad about leaving me, but feels like he should be really heartbroken and because he isn't he now doubts our future (after only 5 months I think that level of feeling is unrealistic, but that's just me); and (4) something about him saying that the decision to move should be mutual, but in this case it's going to be 100% his decision because he is moving first(I did not get this at all).

He went back & forth a lot -- "I don't know" and "I don't want to stop dating you, you mean so much to me" and "let's talk about this tomorrow" and then back to the break-up. I understand that he is confused & torn about moving - I am too - but I didn't want to just throw things away ahead of time when they were going so well. I mostly just listened, and handled it fairly well (not entirely). I tried to understand how he felt, I tried to express my feelings. I told him that I wouldn't expect someone to be "totally in love" after 5 months of dating, that I would also feel drawn to my family & friends, but that I wanted to see how we felt after another month or two instead of just throwing it away for nothing or due to unrealistic expectations. I also said that he was free to think otherwise and us throw it away if that's what he wanted. The only bad thing I said was that I thought his timing was shocking - actually, a bit unbelievable, especially given my friend's death & how sweet & loving he was just two days prior.

This is the 2nd time this has happened -- moving, break-up and all. I feel so incredibly unlovable. Ok, I'm likable, and these guys enjoy my company and are attracted to me, but feel like I'm not "in" lovable. I am crushed and feel so hopeless. This is not the first time that a guy has said I'm everything they want, but they just didn't fall in love. So, I'm meting their ENs and not love busting, then why am I so unlovable.

We are supposed to talk today. Any advice on how to handle that would be appreciated !! I feel like I should just listen, repeat, understand and say "ok." Then get used to the fact that we will probably never talk again. I am so shocked & heartbroken.

Hi nev,

I'm sorry for what you are going through.I haven't yet jumped into the fray of the dating world.

However,I also think the timing was bad to break up with you.All within a few days,mixed messages.

Well,one thing I know is that I am not going to be too hard on myself when things go south,and I am sure I will have my share of that.After reading this board for years,and even if it's only a cross section of society out there,it seems to me that people are very fickle.One day they love you,the next they are moving on for some reason.They aren't honest and their feelings,wants,needs change on a weekly if not daily basis based on who knows what truths.

Which is why I will take a long time to ever be in love with anyone because it will take a long time to let myself open up again unitl I feel it's safe and there is reason to.Now I may not be able to direct my life that way completely but I am going to try.It's worked for me in the past.It has saved me a lot of heartache.

The whole dating scene I think has changed dramatically.Just from what I hear from friends and here,etc.It's so much more complcated and tricky.What happened to easy going and natural? I think there are a ton more expectations placed on relationships now then ever before.And with the instant gratification world we live in,it's next to impossible to be what people want.

You are not unloveable nev.That is not a fair assessment of yourself.We all have the capacity to love and be loved.It's not dependent upon some guys fickle nature.If all he said came out after a few weeks of dating,sure,he may be justified.But after 5 months,well,by then I would think you know what your goals in life are and where you see yourself headed:

1) Most everyone has been burned before.If he's so afraid of that then he should not be dating.

2) LDR's are tough and I wouldn't do it either but that ties into #3

3) he's not heartbroken he's moving away but he made that decision for himself so that is where he is at.He doesn't feel a need to stay for you.Understandable he wants to be near family but then you know where you stand.

If he does call today,I would just be open to all possibilities.If it doesn't work out that he stays then cest la vie right? I am sure it will be painful but you can't force something into being anymore than he could.Let it go.You sound more involved than he may have been and he's not staying for you,to see how things could progress.Unless that changes then the writing was on the wall.Sorry.jmo

My Feeler side would say "Wow, what a jerk - breaking up with you right when you need him the most. How can you possibly cope with this break-up while in the midst of mourning your friend's passing?"

My Thinker side would say "Yeah, what he says makes sense. LDRs, especially across the ocean, are an uphill battle. Better that you found out that he is the quitter type now rather than later".

I didn't realize that his family and friends are back there. That changes things. So when he moves, he is "coming home". It feels safe to him. He probably knows his way around that country much better than here, the possibilities are endless (if you get my drift). So it's probably easy for him to bail and not maintain an LDR, knowing that he'll be fine there, surrounded by friends and family.

As for the "I don't know", "I'm confused", sure - he is somewhat attached to you, and is not sure he wants to let it go. But he is not willing to make the investment either. So no doubt he'll call and talk, but it sounds like his mind is made up regarding the future - the only question is will he be gaming for companionship until he leaves. Your call.

As far as being unlovable, that's an icky feeling for sure, BTDT. It's a normal reaction to being dumped. You sound to me like a wonderful, thoughtful, and genuine woman, so I doubt that you are unlovable - just haven't found your prince yet <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. Look at it this way - for every Mr. Wrong you meet, you are one step closer to meeting Mr. Right, right?

AGG

I'm also not into ldrs, but we might have ended up in the same city within a few months of his leaving. Now we will be here for two+ months and not even date. I don't understand why he throws it away so easy. Really don't get how he can be so loving & say such things, then two days later break up. I'm so confused and devastated. What should I do and say when we talk?

What do you want to talk to him about?

It sounds painful enough.

Nev, the man is an idiot. Emotionally mature people don't tell the person he/she is every thing they want, and then break up with them. He knew he was leaving. This isn't something that just came to him.

I'm really sorry to hear about your friend. My condolences.

GG - when this happened, he was waivering back & forth about breaking up now, or not. We agreed to think about it and talk the next night (which was last night). I decided I needed more time to think about it all, so I told him I couldn't talk until Wednesday night.

I'm expecting him to say he's thought about it and decided that breaking up now is best. I need certainty on where we stand, instead of this waffling back & forth thing. I would also like to express how I feel about it all & how he handled it, but not sure I will at this point in time (or ever).

Yeah...the loving words & actions one day (and months prior), followed by a break-up the next day (at the worst time) is extremely confusing. My friend (a psychologist) said he must have been really hurt by those prior failed relationships that involved someone moving then an LDR, and that he is acting out of fear of that pain again. So, a self-defense reaction, which explains drawing close then pushing me away. BTW, I'm not making excuses for him, because how he did things was wrong, but it does help to recognize that this is about his past pain/fear not about me.

Anyway, I will admit that I'm extremely hurt. I was prepared for the possibility that things might not work out due to career moves & long distance, but I didn't expect this so soon or in such a heartless way.

I feel like my heart has been broken so many times that there are no pieces left.

Don't let him. Why does it get to be his decision? Take the decision making power away from him. Email him and tell him that his behavior is unacceptable, and that you cannot be in a relationship with a man who is so thoughtless in your time of need and who does not value you for the priceless gem that you are.

Nev,

I'm sorry for your pain.I can hear that all this is painful for you and it's totally understandable why.One heartbreak is enough for anyone,let alone several.

I see the psychologists POV however I do think there was more to it all.IMO it seems as though he was making plans in his own head and finally decided what to do and you were "just" collateral damage.People who are really serious about a relationship usually,or should,take into account the other's feelings.In this case,he already made up his mind to move and the tough part was breaking it off.

I mean,is this guy always going to end things with each partner for fear of failure? He will never have a long lasting,committed realtionship,let alone marriage,this way.You are right though that it is about him and how he deals than about you.

Personally,I am always for honesty which in your case would mean expressing how hurt you are.That way you may have some,"closure" .I hate that word but I guess it applies.

curious -- good point. It is not just his decision. I need to think about what I want, which is why I said I couldn't talk until Wednesday. However, I would like for us to talk in person. I don't like the idea of an email and I don't want things to end on a bitter note.

thoughts?