Nev, maybe he didn't fall in love with you because he knew he was going back home. He wasn't emotionally available for some reason. He let you in just so far. It's not you.

So, I think we've all come to a concensus here: You are far, far out of his league. Too good for him.

GGables, you are so kind to say that. Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. Regardless, it seems he wants to end it.

I don't know why he's not "in love" when all the ingredients seemed to there (according to things he & his friends said). Maybe he closed off due to the move, or maybe it's unrealistic to feel that strongly after 4 months (3 months really), or maybe the stress of job/move/exam/etc drowns out those feelings, or maybe he thinks I'm not good enough for him.

anyway...I am shocked & shattered

Dear Nev ~ I'm so very sorry that all of this has come crashing down upon you at this time. As I type this, I'm sitting in a hotel probably not more than 7 or 8 miles away from you in Teterboro, NJ. Wish I could offer more to help you since I'm so close...

But, just wanted to say this: Please be very careful right now as with the TWO grief processes going on that you don't blend & confuse the two.

Meaning? I think if your dear friend Annie had not passed just now, handling Mr. Fickle/Self-centered/He's Just Not That Into You -- would not be nearly so difficult.

I hear you merging the two griefs in your pain-filled words from your heart.

Recommend? I would get this guy outta there ASAP. Then turn to & focus on the REAL grief work you want & need to do. Deal with losing Annie. You will find comfort & strength there - not in dealing with Mr. Selfish.

I'm not calling him selfish cause he wants to break up with you. That's called everyone's choice. No, it's in the way, the timing, the mickey mouse confused, back & forth, emotionally immature manner he's taken. THAT is Selfish!

You're in my prayers my friend,
High Flight

PS: You have my email address if you want to write. I'll even share a phone # if you need someone non-biased to speak with. I think we may have traded them some time back, but I don't have it any more unless I look back through my DayTimer & find it.

Thanks, HF. If you don't mind, I will try to give you a call later.

I feel like I cried my eyes out for 2.5 days and then I reached a state of "calm", or is it denial or exhaustion(?), regarding Annie. Then he talks about breaking up. So, in a way, I feel like I had to deal with Annie first and that was definite, and now I'm dealing with the break-up and that's not yet definite. I did not tell him that I had reached the calm/exhausted/cried out stage yet, so for all he knows, he said those things at a really bad time.

I know I should hate him for being so cruel, but I do feel some empathy that he is dealing with his own stress/confusion/past pain/fears/whatever. Maybe he doesn't handle death well, or it reminded him how much he misses home & family & friends, and he just triggered. I'm trying not to judge.

No one seems to want to answer my question...what is the "average" time the "average" person takes to fall in love when all the ingredients are there? I'm so curious now to see answers on this one.

Hehe, well Gnome did answer, did you notice? His answer was that the "average" is irrelevant, and I agree.

But since you ask, here is my perspective.

First, though, what do you mean "fall in love"? Is it to develop those butterflies, those "wow" feelings, the so-called Infatuation? Because that is what I think of as "falling in love".

If so, it happens pretty quickly for me. A month or two. That is, I meet a great lady, am attracted to her, and as I find more about her, I feel that she and I could be a great thing. So I feel butterflies and excitement, and I feel infatuated and giddy. I know it is nothing but that (INfatuation), and that it will take lots of time to see if this stands the test of time. But in the meantime, yes, I do feel "in love".

Mind you, this has nothing to do with love, not the mature kind, the one that develops with knowing a person more deeply and being comfortable about the relationship. But that I consider to be more "love" than "in love". That latter one probably takes a year or more to arrive at, because you need to really get to know a person, warts and all.

I dunno, does this help at all?

AGG

Yes, I saw GDP's response and I agreed that average is irrelevant. However, my curiousity was not satisfied. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I guess I would define "in love" as beyond just the butterflies and excitement, but not yet "mature love." So butterflies PLUS something more --deep feelings/care/loving feelings PLUS a positive view that it could develop into long-term mature love. Very hard to define.

Most of the people I asked said 6-8months, but I didn't ask them how they defined "in love," so they may have meant just the infatuation stage, or they may have meant a deeper feeling.

HFlight, I'm having trouble accessing my personal email. Sorry about that. Hope all is well with you and thanks for the offer to be a listening ear. I am just ovewhelmed with grief and confusion, but I will find a way through it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

{{{Nev}}} I've begun several replies the last few days and been interrupted... I went through something very similar about 6 months ago and really empathize. My relationship lasted about the same length of time as yours and I was definitely infatuated, shared RC, no LB's, etc. He said I was more like him than anyone he'd ever met and had even suggested that I bring some of my stuff over to his house ~ way too soon for me! He ended it abruptly by disappearing for a week and then showing up to tell me he'd moved his XGF back in. I found out within a month that they were married.

As for your question about the average length to fall in love... I heard later from a mutual friend that he said I'd never told him I loved him... Well, he'd never told me either and I felt 4-5 months was too soon to know if I was anything but infatuated. I told him when he came over to break up with me that I was falling in love with him. He started to say the same, but I stopped him since he was obviously still in love with XGF/now wife. He said we'd always be friends, but I told him that was impossible since he was living with another woman now. He tried several times to contact me, but I haven't seen or spoken to him since.

In hindsight, I can hear the wisdom in everyone's well-intentioned advice and support, but at the time, it almost made me feel worse because I still felt so hurt, rejected, unloveable, unable to sleep or concentrate, and afraid of ever trying again ~ that last one's still questionable...

Yes, you will find a way through it. It takes time... time you use to nurture and care for yourself, and to realize you're already loved by many, many people.

Oh LetsTry - there are so many similarities in your situation, except instead of an XGF, it's his "home" in Norway and he misses family/friends/home. I did feel like I was "falling" in love, but not sure if I was there yet - too soon.

you said "I still felt so hurt, rejected, unloveable, unable to sleep or concentrate, and afraid of ever trying again..." Exactly, and especially the last part. I honestly feel like I don't have any heart left to try again.

So...how did you help get over it? do you compare every potential new guy to that relationship and all the potential it had?

Thanks

Nev ~ To your precise question.

First, you have to make the determination exactly how you define "LOVE"?? Not easy to do.

But it's not just infatuation.
And it's not just attraction.
And it's not only meeting ENs and avoiding LBrs.
And it's, I believe, a gift outside ourselves IF it's real.

I don't know if you are a believer in God or not, but I would strongly point you to 1 Corinthians 13. Read it slowly, carefully over the next week...and I'm confident you'll begin to find your answer.

Here's what I think:

I "fall in love" when I'm confident that it is safe & appropriate to make the choice of love. After I see I have Divine approval to make that ultimate choice. Love is a choice, bottom line. Yes it has all these other aspects such as attraction, affection, EN meeting, LB avoiding, etc. But above all and beyond all, it is A CHOICE!!!

I believe it takes going through the seasons of life to make a led & informed choice. Reasonable time & events have to transpire before that it is safe, sane, appropriate to make the choice to love.

Then, of course real love grows and grows and grows. Just ask my Mom & Dad and any other couple deeply in love after over 50 yrs.

They'll say NOW they really know what love is....

IM me if you need my contact info again. Not pushing, but clearly talking things out with a fellow MBer is not a bad thing to do when you're down.

Nev ~ One last thing I've learned. If you find yourself "comparing" and "afraid to ever try again", that is a sure fire sign that you're supposed to concentrate on you and your healing...NOT another relationship.

We so often ignore our own internal "ANSWERS" that are screaming out the truth of our hearts...and try to medicate ourselves with yet another relationship.

Don't ask me how I know these things.....:(

not to TJ, but HF, how are you doing? dating at all? did it completely end with that one lady friend you had? i think she wanted children or something?? refresh me?

i think of you everytime i book a flight to atlanta! lol i say to myself "where is that darn hf with his plane ride for me? i keep baking these cookies and no hf!"

we need to do an atlanta mb get together so we can all meet and say a big "hey" to eachother!

mlhb

Hey mlhb! OK, I'll join the TJ so Nev can't shoot at both of us haha, not that she would. She's a sweet hearted person.

I thank you for asking. I'm hanging in there. Tons of flying - like last 21 of 28 days. Just have been asked to become the Aviation Dept Manager for my company, which is the top job. The big boss retired, so he nominated me to take his place. Will be a good deal of work, but we've got a pretty good team of folks onboard, so that makes a difference.

Well...the one friend I had did exactly what I was warned here would happen. After 1 1/2 yrs of being close friends (I took things mostly pretty slow due to her very recent divorce when we first met), she decided she couldn't commit to anything more. I felt we needed to take it to the next level of courtship leading to engagement leading to marriage.

I even did the homework & heartwork to get to the point of becoming a "dad again". Yes, she wanted kids & at first I didn't. But eventually, I made peace with being a dad again, and actually started to look forward to it on the whole. So even after all of that, she still backed out - just this past Feb after V'tines day of all times. I knew something was going down when I sent her a fantastic gift of the most beautiful hand crafted "Heart Vase" filled with the finest 18 roses arrangement + a day of pampering/massage/a meal/facial/manicure in the finest spa in her city. And I got belatedly (a guilt gift) of a really cheesy simple V'tine card & she didn't even say she loved me in it. Just a thanks for the friendship....THAT really hurt!!

Our compatibility was extremely high. She told me that she was crazy attracted to me & that she'd wanted to marry me all through the two summers we'd been together. But then...it became a rebound deal for her. She started to resent living 2 hours away & having to drive to see each other. She didn't see any solutions for the problems we would encounter holding on to our two careers, etc.

I had some warning signs. She & her parents called me her ex husbands name by accident for a year and 1/2. Not all the time, but often enough that it showed top of the mind awareness. She still stayed in touch with his family alot. She went out with his mom & dad continually. She & he called each other fairly often even though he remarried the OW, etc.

Emotionally, I'm not far from where Nev is right now. Pretty bummed out in all honesty. But God is still in control & I know that all things work together for ultimate good, some way, some how. So I hold on to that.

I'm likely to be single a long time it's starting to feel like. And I'm making my peace with it.

I'd be honored to meet you & Gekko in ATL some time!! That would be cool.

Best Regards,
High Flight

sorry that things did not work out. considering you were together for 2 years i am surprised she felt it was a rebound. but i would not be comfortable either with someone who was still haning on so tightly to exes family, etc... that part of her life should be well over with by now.

there is def someone there for you. once i completely put my entire life into god's hands, and i mean everything right down to praying daily that my life, my bills, my relationships, my children, be placed in HIS hands, things have run so much more smoothly for me. not perfect, but he never said it would be, just more smoothly. i don't stress anymore knowing it is no longer in my hands. and, once i did that, so many doors have opened to me! i am more involved in church now (and you know what, i give gekko some credit for that one. it is so good to be with a man who is so involved with church, it inspired me to get more involved). i am teaching sunday school for the teens now, i do children's church now on the rotation, and i just sang at easter in church and have been asked to sing every single sunday if i want to! (singing is a big thing for me). so you are right to stay focussed on god. and gekko is an awesome man who stands by me all the time and is there for me. we have a wonderful relationship blooming still. it has been one year since we started talking and in august it will be one year since we started dating exclusively. so i am very happy.

Nev, i am so sorry you are hurting so much. i could not imagine going through a break up in such a way. please don't over think it too much, just pamper yourself and take good care of yourself ok? you will heal and be able to move on. hugs to you.

mlhb

I'm happy for the TJs as my pity party was getting old.

I want to respond to HF and MLHB after I've read their posts more, but I will.

Not to "reverse TJ", but an interesting update. We talked last night. I just resigned myself to it being over & listened to him and focused on understanding. So he explained his reasons and went from...it's over (I just agreed), then he said well he doesn't want it to be over but it MIGHT be best to end now rather than cause more heartache by breaking up later when we're even closer (I agreed, said yes it might be best), and then he said well maybe there is a solution and we can keep dating (I agreed, said maybe, and asked what was his idea for a solution). He said he think about it and we'd talk soon about "us" (it was already after midnight). So, I agreed and now I guess we are back in limbo. I will not contact him, but if he doesn't contact me by Sunday, then I will tell him I've been thinking, and decided it's best we are just friends for now, and that I want to date other people. Thoughts or comments are welcome. Thanks

OK - Reverse TJ is over - I will read the posts above from HF and MLHB more carefully and comment...

Of course. Just as I predicted <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. He is in limbo, and wants to keep you there closely by his side. If I were you, I would not go on the ride - it will end in a breakup anyway. That part I have no doubt about. He is not confused about the end result, only whether or not he wants to keep sleeping with you until it's time to leave.


I love the idea of starting to date other people. Don't go along on his rollercoaster. I'd be very careful about "just be friends", unless you mean that more as a nicety than a reality. Trying to stay close friends with someone you were involved with and for whom you still have feelings will only prolong the pain; especially the first time you hear about his new dates.

AGG

Nev ~ he is exhibiting very conflicted behavior. You don't want / need that. I would see two HUGE warning flags about now.

1. How poor his sense of timing was in the breakup initially visa vie the loss of Annie. That speaks volumes about a man's lack of deep internal compassion & self-centeredness.

2. How wishy washy he is. He has no clear direction in mind. Men are supposed to be initiators / leaders in relationships. You cannot follow the lead of someone who can't figure out what step to take next. Seems like he likes "limbo". But Limbo is a killer of relationships! Don't do it.

If he won't lead efficiently & with honor & dignity with high regard to your emotional well-being, then you take over for yourself & do the right thing here for YOU!!

You've got my prayers,
High Flight

At this point, 6 months later, it's easier to see that he really wasn't "the one" for me, which was probably obvious to pretty much everyone else as soon as he moved his XGF back in and then immediately married her. He had a lot of qualities I really liked and it was the first time I'd felt like I was falling in love since I met my XH 25 years ago. I think that's what made it so painful ~ falling in love is a rare and precious experience.

One thing I've noticed is that when I'm feeling good about myself, I don't think about him, but when I'm feeling down and unloveable, then I fall back into loneliness and wondering why he and/or my XH didn't love me. I think the secret is learning to love ourselves unconditionally. Rejection feels like a blow to the ego, but really doesn't mean we're unloveable. The easiest way for me to see this about myself is to look at other people like you and HF and realize that I don't see you as unloveable so the same is probably true for me.

Ok, I'm behind in responding to the prior posts, so here goes...

HFlight - yes, I'm familiar with that verse and consider myself a Christian. I agree that loving - in the positive sense - is a choice, but at some point it is VERY hard for me to guard my heart and stop falling in love. I can choose to act loving, and do positive things, but the choice to STOP loving seems impossible. Or at least I haven't learned how to choose to stop loving, and I very much would like to turn off my heart and my mind ...the memories, the feelings, ugh ...it's too painful! Is there a pill to get rid of this misery? How can he not miss me when we used to talk & text every day? How can he just move on so easily? ugh! I'm devastated and crushed. Of course, it may still work out, but probably not. How can he just forget about me and us so quickly?

HFlight, I am very sorry to hear that the relationship didn't work. If I could tell you how to erase the bad feelings I would! I hope you find the right person for you.

I'm not actually going to date anyone else for a while, if ever. I just thought I should sound strong when I talk with him again. I will try to socialize with my friends, etc., but I have no interest in dating.

AGoodGuy, thanks for your reply. Just one thing though...you said "He is not confused about the end result, only whether or not he wants to keep sleeping with you until it's time to leave." Umm, it wasn't exactly like that. We were crazy attracted to each other, passionate kissing & stuff, etc, etc. ANYWAYS <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...he said that he didn't want to stop seeing me but felt it would hurt more in 2 months than it does now. So, I never got the impression that he was contemplating "using" me before he left. Perhaps I am dense, though, and he was just playing games.

For some reason, today is particularly bad. I can hardly read the screen through my tears. Wednesday night we talked, and got along so well, and he said he didn't want it to end and maybe there's a solution, and let's talk soon (he repated that several times), but now it's Friday and I've heard nothing. This will be the first weekend we do not see each other. How can he just turn things off so quickly? Was it just my imagination that we talked and laughed for almost three hours and when I got up to go, he said "don't go, but ok if you must, let's talk soon." Did I imagine that he said he was torn about ending things now, even though he thought we would not live in the same city again? Did I imagine that he said he wanted to talk again soon? Was it all just a lie? Did he spend 4 months just feeding me lies of words & actions? I just do NOT get it. And yet I know...it's basically over. He probably doesn't even miss me. He may even be relieved to be done with our relationship! He is probably already kissing someone else. I was nothing to him, except a fool. It's just so hard to comprehend...

Nev, sweetie, you were not a fool to him. You were definitely more than nothing. But, perhaps, you didn’t mean as much to him as he did to you. I don’t think that is any reflection on you. He probably misses you too, he just not calling.

It’ll get better.