Without going into details, after 3 years (???) of infidelity, I'm finally going to move forward and divorce my WW. My BIGGEST concern is my 2 young children. I want what's best for them and I believe (KNOW) in my heart and soul and brain that what is best for them is for them to live with me. Don't get me wrong. WW loves the children and isn't a felon or drug addict or anything. She is just to self centered and puts herself before all else, including the kids often times. Even my in-laws (that would be HER PARENTS) agree with me and support me. Joint custody with primary residence with me. But I know that in the absence of criminal activity, the courts generally side with the wife in custody cases. I NEED to find a lawyer that specializes in fathers rights in divorce. Can ANYBODY offer up some resources for finding such representation? Any help would be appreciated.

She's been cheating on you for 3 years, first thing I'd do is get a paternity test!

Is she going to fight you for custody? The courts will generally agree with whatever arrangements you work out.

Read the book Mom's House, Dad's House - I think that's the name. There's a dvd too if you are a member of netflix.com, that you can order. It's quite good actually and recommended before you start the process. This can get quite adversarial as I'm sure you realize, you won't likely get custody, more like joint with kids every weekend or every other weekend and Holidays... You'd have to have some sort of "proof" that she's a bad mother to get custody of the children, you can spend all the money and fight all you want - you can hire the best attorney but judges will decided what they decide if you choose to fight. Get some knowledge before you go into this blindly, that book is a good starting place.

The book is a good starting point to drafting your own arrangements and will help you craft these documents so they can be discussed for the children's best interest.

That is the problem with courts, and fathers rights. Basically it is up to the father to prove the mother is a bad parent to get custody... and all the mother has to do is point out to the judge that she is a woman and win a lot of the times. Sometimes fathers get custody, but is a very tough slippery slope they have to climb to get it.

Father's rights are en vogue right now in the court system. You have a very high chance of getting 50/50 IF you do certain things.

First, you absolutely must control your emotions around your ex. You cannot give her any ammunition. Every e-mail your write, phone call, interaction with witnesses can be used against you. You have to be Mr. Cool, which is very hard to do when you get angry about the kids being taken away from you. Just remember, if you lose the battle, you may lose the war. Winning the battle means being Mr. Cool around the W.

Second, you need to accept that your W may be a crappy wife but an ok mom. If she is an adequate parent, the courts are not likely to take the kids from her. 50/50 is what they lean towards and encourage.

Third, get a book called "Father's Rights". It is a little dated in the sense that things have changed since it was written, but it has great advice.

Fourth, what happened in your marriage and what led to your divorce is irrelevant to a custody fight. Unless there is abuse of some sort, that stuff doesn't matter and you are simply filling lawyers and mediators pockets by bringing it up in discussion.

Fifth, this comes from advice that i got from a lawyer here that specializes in father's rights: Become Tony Danza from Who's the Boss. That's how you want to appear in court. You're a cool, calm guy that has his act together and is a great father.

Sixth, do not bring up money in any way shape or form. If you focus on the things that calculate child support, then you will look as if all you're interested in is money. So if you start arguing about the number of overnights you get, etc, then it will backfire.

Seven: Every question asked by a lawyer or court should tie into the well being of the kids. Everything.

I hope this helps.

In this town I hear stories over and over from women who "tought" they'd get full custody and who didn't. The kids go back and forth spending one week at father's and one week at mother's. I think it's changing, not just women in skirts getting custody. And I think there's pressure on judges to change the system. I don't think it's that "all a mother has to do is point out that she's a woman.." It's more the courts favor keeping kids in the same situation they've been in if the kdis are safe - women typically have the kids during a separation, the kids are typically safe, and whatever arrangements are made during this period between parents are often agreed upon by the judge. Guess the strategy should be for you to try to get as much time with the kids as possible during this process. Overnights, weekends, whatever you can. Seems to be what my ex is doing, trying to establish his time as much as he can and I can tell he was coached by an attorney to do this, and to take lots of pictures. Document all of your time, when you picked them up, dropped them off etc. Be nice to HER if you want to be or not, men seem so resentful during this period and it's understandable but a war isn't going to help. I actually rented a divorce dvd on netflix.com and it interviewed the authors of the book Mom's House, Dad's House. I can't remember the title but if you are a member you'll find it, it's a top divorce movie there. The authors of the book are interviewed saying that they think people should read and research more before hiring attorneys, that the adversarial system isn't always in favor of children (but of course attorneys pocketbooks), and that things are changing in the system to make it more friendly for men and respecting a man's time with his kids. If there's violence or danger of course it might not be best that the courts are moving this way - and some kids wind up endangered - but overall I think "things are a chanin'..."

Things really are changing. The biggest thing is to control yourself in your interactions with her. Show no emotion.

I know it is a nearly impossible mandate. I have finally gotten to the point of emotional separation where I can actually coach myself through my interactions with her.

She called me yesterday to ask if I could take off from work today to watch our son. It wouldn't be a big deal if this was a once in a while occurrence. But this happens all the time. I believe it played a factor in getting laid off of my other job.

I have surrounded myself with backup people willing and able to watch the kids. I told her I couldn't take off but that I was willing to let her use my resources.

Well, she wanted to pick a fight. Started asking me if I would ever be responsible.....yada, yada, yada. (I've taken many days off of work to watch the kids)

I simply stated, "you called me, I gave you my answer. I gave you alternatives and you didn't wish to use them." I said that and simply hung up.

I then went and documented.

Don't argue and fight with her. You're never going to win. She's never going to see things differently and all you'll do is raise your own pressure and give her ammunition she could use in court.

Good luck.

Broken,

Here's what I did. It may or may not be helpfull to you. It got me primary custody, though we do share time right now 50/50. My ex and I have a 2-1/2 year-old, and since our life paths were truly separating I did not want to risk a move away of battle later on with joint custody if ex decided she wanted to move away.

Again, this may or may not be possible depending on where you are with your situation. In my situation the WW felt so much guilt at what she was doing because it was early on in A. After three years, your WW may just feel entitlement and contempt toward you.

* In adversarial divorces you can spend thousands on legal fees (no suprise there).
* My lawyer scared me to death. I had a lot of exposure, with the potential of alimoney and child support if we WW got custody. I didn't want to leave my future in the hands of a judge.
* My boundary was when WW moved out of the house. If she decided to go, I told her we could divide up the assets and do what's best for the kids. (I needed closure) She agreed. Per my lawyer, this was the most cost effective way to go.
* Control emotions.
* Don't argue over pots and pans.
* Find out what she wants -- cash, furniure? Balance that with what she will likely get if it goes adversarial and what you are comfortable parting with. She also had it in her head that we would share kids 50/50, so that really wasn't an issue.
* My ex wanted cash. She didn't want my 401K...she just wanted cash (granted she didn't hire her own attorney, or I would probably be stuck in the courts right now). As mentioned above, she was willing to share kids 50/50, as the OM is 300 miles away and she needed kidless time to travel away and enjoy her MLC lifestyle.
* I figured out what I could pay her AND stay in the marital home. What I couldn't pay now, I deferred over five years. She agreed. (She is in MLC...cash is king!).
* After we agreed on a dollar figure and WW lined up housing (and began running her credit cards up, I came back with something. Up until this time I had not demanded ANYTHING, except that I be able to stay in the house (kids schools, etc). I told WW I wanted to be the primary custodian for the kids. At the time she was in such a fog she really didn't know what that meant. She just was concerned with 50/50 "timesharing." The kids are on my health insurance (which is pretty good stuff from work) and I agreed to pick up most co-pays. Small price to pay, and I would have cared for my kids in that manner regardless of my marital status.
* I took the business terms and child custody terms to my lawyer and he drafted the language. While we share time 50/50, the document is written that WW has "Visitation rights as long as she lives in the same school district."
* Brought WW in, she signed and we filed. Non-contested D just like that (scary how fast it happend).
* My heart was breaking the entire time. Very difficult.
* Result: Am I happy? I took what I thought would be the best deal to ensure I would raise my children at least half the time and provide them stability. I know of too many anecdotal story of WW who move away with the kids because the father's got hosed. There was no way I wanted my ex to drag our children 300 miles away. Moreover, if the WW decides one day that she wants sole custody of our youngest, I will have to give it to her willingly, die or she will have to prove that it is in the best interest of the child (i.e. take me to court and explain why I'm a bad Dad and she needs to take DD).

I feel blessed it worked out this way.

Post Script: WW, now ex, true MLC'er that she is, did buy a house in our school district (bought too much house) and also did buy a nice new CAR after she got her settlement. Cash flow is a problem with her now. (I feel no joy because of this).

Sorry for the ramble. I hope my experience can be a benefit to you.

HL

Thank you all for the advice. It is VERY helpful. A couple of updates and some more information. When I originally posted, I have to be honest that I was only 90% sure about the 3rd A. Last Friday I got my conformation. WW was at a meeting and I freaked out. Called her, the OM, her sister, etc. I made no threats but they were ALL frightened. according to WW, the OM has "rabbited". Apparently decided that the S wasn't good enough to get in the middle of a D and the breakup of a family.

Then, 2 days ago, my WS said openly that she wanted a D and had to interest in trying to save the M or the family. Considering what I thought I was feeling, it still came as a blow. Not just a river in Egypt.

But I had some time to think and I realized that if I was going to have peace, I was going to have to focus on myself and change things that needed to be changed. I have treated her badly since the first 2 A's 3 yrs ago. I never forgave her. And I never did anything to try to fix the marriage. I looked for opportunities to hurt her emotionally, wanting her to feel the pain that she caused me. I refused (actively) her love and gave little in return. Now I KNOW that WW is responsible for the A's and her actions. But I finally admitted to myself that I and I alone am/was responsible for my own actions. I told WW and our respective families these things and stated that I would not be the source for any more pain. I am responsible for myself and now I am in control.

WW responded to this news with FURY. The venom with which she talks to me now is palpable. I really believe it has made her hate me which I don't really understand.

She finally got home yesterday and immediately went out to get a new cell phone, something she didn’t try to hide. She wants to make it vary clear that she wants a life on her own.

So what now? On the sound advice from my MIL, I am taking one step at a time. I will not lash out at my WW. Just call me "Tony Danza". Mr. Cool. I found a lawyer and have a consultation on Monday. I'm going to get all the facts. Re. custody, The 50/50 share is a no brainer. WW travels extensively for her job for one thing. For another, she has very little control over our kids and she knows it. I think the last thing she would want is to have them all the time.

I'm also thinking about waiting to let her file and I’m curious about what everyone’s thoughts are on that. As unbelievable as it is, i still don't know if I could do it. And I want her to admit to herself, me and everyone else in her life that she is unwilling to make any attempts to save the marriage.

HL
I did mine almost the same as you. Except unlike you, we owned very little. We owed more than what our house was worth, neither one of us could afford to make the payments ourselves.

We did an uncontested divorce. When we sat down to negotiate who got what, I basically gave her almost everything, in return for getting the lion share of custody of our two kids. I moved out of our house with the kids furniture, some pots and pans, our clothes, some toys, and that is about it. Luckily I have been blessed with a very loving family, and they bought me what I was lacking. I let her have everything because I didn't care much about all of our old stuff, and she did. We divided up the debt, each took a car, hammered out our parenting plan, our sep agreement, and went our seperate ways. From the time we split to the time it was over, took us 4 months.

It is kind of funny, even though the WW was the family financial wizard, I now have almost 1/4th of the debt she has, maybe even more. I have paid my bills on time, and her, well, she has now shacked up with another guy, and married him after knowing him for 3 months so she can get the bills paid.

For me as well, it was very hard for me too. After her A, I still reserved hope we would get back together, until I found out who the other man was, and that she was sleeping around.

TT, tony danza is the best advice. One blow up, one stray word to her, and she could easily rip those kids out of your lives. Think happy thoughts, and live life one day at a time. I was doubtful I could handle being nice to her after she cheated on me, so I moved out. Lookingh back, was the best decision I could have made. I hammered out my parenting plan, arranged custody, and the sep agreement, and filed everything when I filed for divorce, and moved out a week later.

Don't necessarily believe that the OM ran off... Mine told me that after I found out. Upon doing some investigating, she and the OM were then talking when I wasn't there, and texting on the cell phone, and at work. Being very very careful, I learned by using a keylogger, I uncovered her internet activities, including her AIM messages. Once I learned that, I was out of the house the next weekend.

Be strong, your kids deserve it.

I truly am not worried about her taking the kids away from me. First, I don't think that she could come up with the legal grounds, but most importantly she DOESN'T WANT to have them all the time. Like I said, she can't control them. They don't listen to her no matter how loud and often that she screams at them at the top of her lungs!! That and she travels, about 50% of the time lately. And she (we) have no family locally to help us out. We have always worked it out ourselves and have always had someone home. If you take me out of the picture, she is crippled!!!

Sounds like she wouldn't fight you on at least a 50/50 arrangement. You can always feel her out about more time when you figure out the schedule.

Can anyone out there in the 50/50 parenting situation tell me how it works? Not logistically but how the kids take to it. Mine are 7 & 9. Is it too much instability? How about friendships? Does the half-time thing create problems? It honestly seems to me that every other weekend during the school year and more prolonged periods (i.e. more that 2 weeks) during the summer would be better for the kids. If that were the case, I would try to make that happen and would not fight WW for the school year times.

There are many variations of 50/50 that can be balanced to minimize the impact on the kids. Most with kids your age do a 3/1/3 schedule rather than a 7/7 schedule, so the children do not go more than 3 days without seeing their other parent.



Find out if there is a Rainbows class in your area. www.rainbows.org . It is for children of death or divorce, and can give them a place to talk to another adult. These are usually run out of churches.

My kids are almost 9 and almost 7. They are with me on Sunday, Monday, and Thursday. With their Dad Tues/Wed (overnight) and we alternate weekends. They have adapted well to it. They couldn't do the week on/week off thing. And the "standard" visitation (every other weekend and one evening a week) just wouldn't be enough time with that parent. Their day to day is pretty routine regardless of whose day it is (school/daycare/routines).

ETA: we decided on that schedule (even though not quite 50/50) because the kids liked knowing Mondays are with Mom, Tuesdays are with Dad, etc. I do travel for work, so overall the time appoximates 50/50.