The papers have been signed. The judge has them. The final step is that both of us must take a parenting class before the judge will sign the decree.

He and his son went out of town last Wed to visit his daughter a few states away; still there - coming home tomorrow.

My sister went out of town yesterday so I went to church today so that my D could go and not sit alone PLUS I wanted to be in church. Wonderful sermon about faith.

My H started calling at 8:15am. I knew it would be the usual "are you going to church" routine so I didn't answer. He left a couple of messages after that. I called him back around 5:30pm. When I told him that I went to church, he turned into Mr. Hyde. Cursing me out. I asked for it. The games were going to begin. I was going to get everything I have been asking for. I need to get my stuff out of his house.

Nasty.

Why? It's okay for him to take a call from the OW and his 2nd XW because the OW wants to give son some furniture or the XW wants to know if his son wants a contract doing lawn care where she works. That's okay but I can't go to church.

Would someone please explain to me why he does this? Is it because he has lost control of me? I did something he didn't want me to do so he punishes me by threatening me? I usually cave at this point and stop going to church again.

Is it love and a desire to work the marriage out or is it just about controlling my every move?

God made man....sometime man forget that.

who do you choose to serve?

You know the pattern, now stay away from the path of hate and abuse.

L.

I know. I know what his next move will be. If nice doesn't work, try nasty. If nasty doesn't work, try threatening suicide.

I just don't understand nasty. If we can't make it work and it must end, why be nasty about it? Why make me getting my things difficult?

He is getting the opportunity to move on w/his life as well.

Why be nasty?

I am choosing to serve God. I intend to be at church Wed evening. I have stayed away from church to avoid conflict with him for a year now and nothing has changed.

I can't get past what he has done. I'm trying to move on but the nastiness is tough.

Why choose nasty? No logical reason but still it c/b the path he choose. Regardless of logic or not, you be safe, ok?

L.

I just don't get it. He still says he loves me and will always. According to him he's made so many changes in the last two months. He doesn't talk to any other women, he doesn't treat me bad. He can't think of anything else to do to prove that he is willing to make the marriage work.

He doesn't understand that he can't erase all the affairs and inappropriate relationships, the emotional and physical abuse, the threats of suicide. Saying "I'm sorry" doesn't take it all away.

Because I went to church yesterday he's now cursing me out again and telling me that he loves me but can't take it anymore.

Can anyone explain the type of personality that goes from nice to nasty when they don't get their way. He supposedly loves me to death but that doesn't stop him from cursing me out and being nasty when I don't fall back into his arms.

I can't take him anymore. He is still lying about significant parts of his A with the last one I know about. I know from a reliable source that he was taking her around his family and his children. He still denies it. I can't base anything on such lies.

Any insight would be very much appreciated.

Why are you still subjecting yourself to it?


If you still must play these games...
Give him a list of questions you still want answered honestly from his affairs. See if he comes through.

addendum: If you are going to ask someone to do something out of character for them, it's important to make clear to them what the stakes are. The stakes are what you choose to make them; however, what I might suggest them to be, could be:

"I'm sick of your lies to me. I dont believe anything you say any more. I cant even TALK with someone, who just keeps telling me lies about everything.

If you wish to just even talk to me any more, then I want to know you're done lying. For good.

If you are done, then prove it. Answer these questions with 100% honesty, no holding back, covering up, or trying to sugar coat the truth.

Come clean now, or I'm done talking with you.".



[but be REAAAALLY sure, yourself. About the reliability of your "source", and what it is that they are actually saying to you. Sometimes, people say X, and we think they mean "X + Y"... but Y is an unwarranted assumption on our part.]

I am still subjecting myself because:

a) my stuff is still in the house. He's keeping the house and I'm getting out.
b) I fear him.
c) I am so afraid that I will end up old and alone that I remain in contact with someone who has shown me time and again how much he loves me. Talk is cheap; actions are what matters.

He isn't being honest. I have asked him and will do so again one more time. He has called me a dozen times today to tell me that he can't handle what I subject him to (going to church) and my lies. I have lied recently b/c he asked if I had been looking at houses. I don't want him to know what I'm doing b/c I'm scared of his reaction so I lied. But, I am not now and have never been involved with anyone else. He constantly accuses me of that. Is that from his guilt of having actually done that?

When I was taping conversations at the house last year I find out what a consumate liar he is; they roll off his tongue like honey. I now question everything he tells me b/c I know how easily he can concoct the most elaborate lies.

Anyway, here's where I am:
a) divorce has been filed and is ready for judge's signature. There's a chance that he may go ahead and sign without us going to the parenting class.
b) I have to get my stuff from the house.
c) I have to remove my name from our company; that will take a PC, company credit card and 5 minutes.
d) Close joint credit card. That's not a problem either. He can give me a check for what he owes and I can have money drafted from my account at that bank and pay it off and close it; 5 minutes.
e) He has to move his vehicle insurance to his own account.

That's it. Ten years down the drain. I could kick myself for the last three. But, I hope I've learned some valuable lessons along the way.

My regret...... that I didn't stand up for myself and stop some of the craziness while there was still hope for our marriage. The things that happened during our separation are what put the nails in the coffin. I cannot go home knowing what I know about what he has done and said.

Anyway, I might just use your last two sentences Techie. If he lies again, I'll know that he will continue lying and I'll have a little more peace about moving forward.

Thanks guys.

Why?

Why do you need him to keep on failing tests to feel "peace" about moving forward? Its like each step requires him to behave badly (again) and then you feel better about it. Its a very dangerous dance.

Why don't you just add up all the truly rotten things from the last three years and move all the way out?
Why keep testing him? Its not doing him any good.

You're past the point of ultimatums or negotiating. Just stop. Stop communicating with him.

L2S-

Boo flippin' hoo! they (WS) has to pay for the dammage!
waaahhhh!!
What a doof!! Hello?!
They think they can spend their life in HO-LAND! and everyone will be happy?!
EEWW! EEWW! EEWW! Yucky people, yucky land!

Stay away from that man, he sounds unstable and dangerous.

He hasn't changed one iota.

He is only "behaving" right now (and doing a poor job of it as his lapses prove) because the divorce has become a reality for him.

He is displaying anger toward you because he cannot control you and it angers him.

His ego is huge and he is selfish, hence the reason why he thinks that not talking to other women and wanting you back are reasons enough for you to take him back. He is mad because you aren't displaying the proper amount of gratitude toward him for the "sacrifices" he is willing to make on your behalf.

I don't understand why he would be angry over you attending church? What's up with that? Even if he is agnostic or atheist what is it to him if you attend church?

It's almost as if your soon to be ex is demanding that you put him before God.

L2S,

I want to say this as gently as I can, but I think you have bigger issues than your STBX.

If you want to be done with the harrassment, go with a police escort to get your stuff, and be done with it. Any man who behaves this way toward you going to church definitely has issues with God.

But hon - you need to get gut-honest with yourself about who you are and what you want. At this point, he should have no legal claim on you - and by cheating on you and trying to separate you from seeking out comfort from God - you've been released from that claim too.

Decide who you are independent of the names and labels he has put on you. Start remembering the names God puts on you: daughter of a Loving Heavenly Father who loves you, friend, peacemaker, meek, poor in spirit - please read Matthew 5-7 tonight sometime and find comfort in His word.

Orchid: WS' lie. Even the good stuff. Notice how he likes to yank your chain? He can't think because WS' don't think. They are reactionary.

Learn how to use their own badness against them. Remember you want the WS destroyed so your real H can escape.


Orchid: He doesn't understand because he is still in the WS mindset (or lack thereof). Don't try to find logic in it. The WS will try to use the least to get away with the most.

Do NOT enable it.


Orchid: Now does this make sense? Throw it back in his face and say..... "so when you (WS) do something good, you want people to curse you? In your world a curse is a compliment?"

That's reverse babble and it also throws the guilt back on him. It also lets him know you are NOT buying his stupidity.


Orchid: Yes, that's the WS personality. You don't have to be a victim of it. Learn how to give him his guilt back.


Orchid: Then you need to remove yourself from his toxic influence. Ready to go to plan B? Your mind and heart must be in sync so whether he accepts or denies it, you will be ok.


Orchid: I did. Hope it helps. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

In my opinion, you're both toxic.

You have said that he basically forced you into bed before you were ready by saying that he was going to see someone else, which is just you blaming him for your own choice in that matter. Then you went on to say he basically forced you into marrying him but you really didn't want to. Huh??

You have allowed him to treat you with threatened violence, which includes his suicide threats, that is violence, honey, but you have put up with it, you have allowed it to go on far too long. This belongs to you.

And finally, if you wanted him to make concessions in your marriage, you should have started by finding a different church where your EA partner doesn't attend. That's the bottom line.

I had an EA and I know one when I see one.

I hope you get a good therapist, because if not you will continue all these poor choices that create misery in your life and the lives of all who care about you.

Please note:

you dont believe anything he says, because you know he lies to you about some things.

You wonder why he wont believe you when you keep telling him nothing's going on at church: but you lie to him.

I'm not making a judgement about whether you lying to him about it is wrong: I'm pointing out that you are verbally treating him in the same way you say you cant stand him treating you.

Both of you are probably lying, for the same reasons. you're scared of the other person's reaction.

If you actually want the truth from him always... isnt it time you also give him the truth always?

The answer to the second part may be "no". And that's fine.
But in that case... I suggest that you reconsider your stance on always having the truth from HIM always.

Does it really seem fair to you, to expect something from someone else, that you yourself are not willing to do?

You keep saying that this man loves you.

Why do you believe he loves you? What evidence do you have?
Mulan

All day today he continually called me. He would say that I need to leave him alone and he will leave me alone. Then, 5 minutes later, he's calling again.

Techie-
I did ask him about some of the lies. He continues to deny. Some of what I know is from the tape I had running. Some of it is from his cousin who accompanied him out to lunch w/OW a coupld of times and to her house a few times where my H kissed her in front of his cousin and told her he loved her. I asked him point blank today who knows about the R he had w/the OW. His response was that his kids just knew that they talked. According to his cousin, they had been around her several times and just loved her to death. They thought she was great. Per his cousin, he had a hot and heavy physical R with another woman right before the OW that he had the 8 month affair with. Etiher he was just trying to make himself look like a stud by lying or it was the truth. Based on everything I heard on the tapes I have, I believe the cousin.
If everything I believe is true, then I don't see any way to repair. I just don't understand why he is still telling me that he loves me more than he ever has. Also, knowing him like I do, I find it very hard to believe that he has not been cheating in the last year.

and i think that is to be expected.
he is afraid of your reaction to the truth.
to pull out an old chestnut, "The definition of insanity is repeating the same actions, but expecting different results".

I wouldn't expect him to change his response to you, until you change the backdrop of your asking the questions.

which is why I suggested that framework.
but which would not be fair, until you were willing to treat him the same way, first.

BTW: the more you ask him those same questions, in the same way, the more you are conditioning him to repeat and firm up the lie about it.

The more you do that, it will make it more difficult for him to "come clean" (if he decides to), if you ever decide to use the framework I suggested.

I think for most humans, it is easier to admit, "i lied to you once", than "i lied to you 50 times".

The guy my H has accused me of.......he is engaged to be married in a couple of months. I just learned this about a week ago. If I thought it would make a difference to tell my H I would but, I don't think it would matter. I think he would say that him getting married won't matter. I can still have a R w/him.

I just want to figure out why I allowed myself to get in this mess, figure out how to get out of this mess and figure out how to never get in this mess again.

I don't like the "me" I've become. To my recollection I wasn't a liar before I met him. I have just evolved into one in order to keep the peace and protect myself from his emotional abuse. I don't want to be this way. I want to understand why I am like I am.

I go for another counseling session this coming Monday. I just finished the book Peace at any Price by Deborah Day Poor. She is a LCSW in Florida and I found out about her from a friend who was in counseling with her. Right now I'm going to an abuse shelter counselor. I don't know if this is where I should be. It seems logical at this point but I am dealing with so much from my past.

I've thought about going to Al Anon. My uncle was an alcoholic and I was around him alot. I think my father was and he abused my older brother and sister but not me. I'm guessing that I saw what he did to them but have blocked it out b/c it was too painful to deal with.

I just want to be happy and whole and never make the mistakes that got me here. I want to love again and to feel loved.