Lexxy - You are very right and that is really the focus of my counseling at this point. Not marriage counseling. Not relationship counseling. L2S counseling. I am learning why I allow what I allow and I am determined to learn how not to do that.
I do not take ownership of what he has done to me. I do take ownership of allowing it. He can't do to me what I don't allow him to do.



You are right, too. My H is very charming. One of the many characteristics that I am learning are common with abusers. They are charming, they "fall in love" easily (for me he was telling me he loved me in one month). I have come to understand the cycle. Charming, angry, apologetic and "suicidal", time passes and he's charming again.

I have some "issues" that I deal with and he feeds on that. I believe with everything in me (as do others close to the situation that know him) that if I go back home he will be back to his old ways in 6 months. I can't take that chance but I'm having a hard time with the final step. I'm getting there though.

err, what?

I dont see how that would make sense. If that were true, I would think the couple would be able to resolve their problems themselves, and not NEED a marriage counsellor <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I would personally presume that marriage counsellors would usually start with the exact opposite assumption.


[color:"green"]
I wonder what "intermediate boundary enforcements" look like in this kind of a relationship?

If you call me names, I will....?[/color]
tell you that's hurtful, and stop the conversation if you continue to do so. This includes leaving the room/house/whatever, if neccessary, to give a cool-off period.
[color:"green"] If you throw my stuff out into the street, I will...? [/color]
bring along a moving truck, and people to help, and take ALL my stuff at once, so you do not get to do it again.
[This is in the context of, "i live somewhere else now anyway"]
[color:"green"] If you don't speak to me for days just to punish me for something, I will...? [/color]
do nothing about it. that's your choice. you have a right to control over yourself. I dont "suffer" if you choose not to talk to me anyway.
[color:"green"]If you pull my hair, I will...? [/color]
not come within physical reach of you again
[color:"green"] If you call me more than 10 times a day, I will...? [/color]
stop answering your calls. and maybe change my phone number if you refuse to "get it".
[color:"green"] If you have one affair, I will...? [/color]
divorce you and say goodbye. [This is specifically in the context of L2S's relationship, from here on in, not general case]
[color:"green"] If you have another affair, I will...? [/color]
not know about it anyway, 'cause I already dumped your [censored] and dont care what you do now

[color:"green"]If I ask you not to do something and you do it anyway, I will...? [/color]

This is a badly framed question. Because it depends on what was "asked". Some things, there is no right to ask, and expect compliance.

Be done with him, L2S. You've already been within his physical reach one too many times. He shouldn't have to be "told" not to ever put his hands on you. That boundary is a given, an unspoken rule, and a line which he has crossed more than once.

Jennifer - Agreed!

Techie - in your own words...



Techie - with the exception of some of what you have just posted, there have been times that you've been told your advice is dangerous - could even be deadly to L2S, yet you persist. He has put his hands on her, with intent to do harm. He has had an affair. More than one.

Yet you want her to give him one more time to hurt her. One more time to cheat. Before she can draw her line in the sand - finito???

Techie - perhaps before you advise a battered woman again, you should volunteer at a "women and children in crisis" center - hotline for domestic violence - see if you would give the same naive advice that you have liberally dished out here?

This is not your ordinary run of the mill kind of "give him one more chance you are suggesting. What part of "potentially fatal" 'nuther chance don't you understand?

L2S is confused enough on boundaries. Too many times, we end up adding to our own pain because we want to believe and give just one more chance. That's how women (and men) end up dead at the hands of their so-called "sweetheart".

L2S - give yourself a new phone number; get a police escort and get the remainder of your posessions.

Then give yourself 30 days of no contact - none. Continue working with the therapist. In time - probably about two weeks after you begin this 30 day "fast", you will feel like a whole new woman - and hopefully you will never want to go back to having any attachment to him at all.

I absolutely believe that NC is the best way to go in my situation.

I am finding myself becoming less and less tolerant of his snide remarks and his apologies. He has convinced himself that if I ever leave work during the day it is to meet a man.

We have a snack bar in my building that I stock for the employees b/c we don't have vending machines. I typically go on Fridays to do this. You know, end of the week, wrap things up, no meetings, go get the stuff and come back and put it up.

I cannot leave work w/o him commenting on this and it has really gotten old. This is certainly not winning my heart back. It's pushing me farther and farther away. I don't do this to him and he has all the time in the world to do this b/c he plans his own day (self employed) and there's no one at the house at night; I have my D.

He has even called the cell phone company to find out how a phone rings when it's turned off, when it's in use and you call in, etc. so I often have to hear "were you on the phone" when he calls b/c he says there are certain sounds he hears based on if you're on it or not.

Good grief!!!!

This is how living with him is. It just gets old. He picks everything apart and trusts nothing. I have never called any other man, I have never met any other man.

I think it makes him feel better to accuse me. I think he has convinced himself that I'm cheating too so that he doesn't feel so bad. It's like dealing with a police detective.

I got a couple of VMs last night and this morning about going to church. He told me that I needed to go and be with my D and family. My D has really been giving me a hard time about not going to church and has really been pushing about the divorce. She doesn't really know what's going on and I try really hard to keep her out of it.

So, I did call him and wish him Happy Easter. I did tell him that I wanted to go to church and it had nothing to do w/anyone or thing other than being in church and w/family.

He told me there would be nothing said.

I did go and the service was wonderful. We had communion and it was a good experience. I got a VM from H about 3:30pm telling me he hoped I had a good time and that he knew I wasn't going to see the guy but it still hurt.

I don't want to hurt him.

I don't want to hurt.

In my mind there is no hope for this M. We have both allowed too much to continue for too long.

I have started reading a Beth Moore book about getting yourself out of the pit. That's what I've been in; a pit.

She says there are 3 ways to get there: one is through something someone does to you, one is where you slip into one not meaning to and the third is where you jump in head first.

I've been in all three types in this relationship. The only way I know of to make this situation better is to end it.

Please pray for me that resolution will come soon.

I called my attorney's office this morning. She told me that the judge signed the order 3-28-07.

I AM DIVORCED. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Please pray for us.

I need to arrange for storage and get the rest of my things this week.

I am so afraid to tell him.

I never called him last night. This morning I had to b/c he picked up items for my work snack bar b/c he was afraid I was leaving work to meet OM.

When I got to house he was very angry. Mad b/c I went to church which is what I knew to expect. Said to go but blew up b/c I did.

Slammed my car door, cursed me out, called me names.

I said to myself that if this new judge ....... who seems to do it all by the book ......... signed the papers without us having to go to class, this is meant to be.

It's over and I need to get my stuff and move on with my life. Not to a new man but to a new life.

Prayers and further advice very much appreciated.

Hello and Good Morning!

I just wanted to let you know that I'm thinking of you and you're in my prayers.

It's obvious that this is not a man that you need in your life! I have faith that YOU will be just Great!

Keep up the good work!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

S4B,
Thanks. Yeah, I don't think he's such a great person for me either.

I told one person at work to get time off but I haven't told anyone else that the D is final. I feel that I owe it to him for him not to be the last to know; needs to know before everyone else does.

I'm just scared to tell him. I will be off Wed-Fri of this week to get all my stuff from the house and put it in a storage unit.

He called me a few times today and told me that this is all my fault. Said that he did everything he could to make things right and to show me that things didn't have to be bad but I never changed anything to give him any hope.

I just can't seem to make him understand (and guess I never will) that the constant emotional abuse and the affairs did us in. He told me today that he is moving on which means dating so he can have a physical R w/someone. No one will ever convince me though that he has gone w/o that for a whole year. No way.

Anyway, thanks all for listening and giving advice. I'm not home free yet. Still got to tell him we're D and get my stuff.

L2S, why don't you have your lawyer call your WH to inform him of the D?

Also, don't go to that house alone to get your things. DO NOT! Okay?

From reading a lot of this particular thread, you would be wise to listen to S4B (Rinder).

You still sound like your WH has some say in your life. If you are D'd, don't talk to him anymore. Don't pick up the phone, separate yourself from him completely. I know that all of this is tough to do, but you can.

L2S,

What makes you think he doesn't already know? I think he does. I also think you should be away from him. The one person you should be telling is your child/children. They should know. Doesn't he have a lawyer? If so, that lawyer should tell him. The court should also send something out.

Stay away from him. It matters not whose fault it is/was now. You have a new life to lead, start considering how you want to lead it.

God Bless,

JL

Do not listen to one more angry sentence out of his mouth.

the second he starts in on you .... hold up your hand and say

S T O P ... T H I S ... N O W

then turn on your heels and leave.....

he has nothing to say that is useful to you ... his words are poison spit balls ....

NEVER AGAIN allow anyone to spit hateful words at you

there is no point in listening to him ....

the kindest thing you can do for your abusive X-husband is to NEVER be his TARGET again

NEVER AGAIN

Pep

(((((L2S)))))

Prayers that you will feel your Lord's loving arms around you today and in the coming days.

Please please heed what Pep said - change your phone number; get a moving van and a copy of the divorce decree, round up some friends from church (not that one guy who bugs X so bad, and then ask for a police escort to assist you in getting your stuff out now, finito. done!

Then more prayers for you as you move into that first day of no contact. then the first week. then the first month. Exercise. Go to church. Eat well. Sleep well. Find yourself healing. Then consider getting some health to recognize healthy people and gravitate toward them for future relationships.

(((((L2S))))))

HI, I'm just here for your support and to back up what everyone else is saying...

((((L2S))))

I hope that you ahve sweet dreams tonight! Take care! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have no one that I can take into this situation. The cops aren't going to stay with me all day. I can't take my family or friends. It would only make it worse.

We used the same attorney; my treat. I've thought about calling my attorney and having them send a copy and I will mail them a check and say that the copies were included in what I paid them.

I did get some things packed today. He was there for part of the time. He did leave and planned to wait until I left to go back home. He wasn't there when I left.

I will go back for about 4 hours tomorrow and some on Friday.

I am so low I can't remember the last time I was this heartbroken and sad. I just want to crawl into the corner and die. I believe with everything in me that he would only cheat again. I truly believe that and I don't want to go through that pain again.

At one point he was in the shower. The house phone rang. Probably a customer. I looked at caller ID as the phone was ringing and didn't pick up; was from large company in area. About 30 seconds later his cell phone rang. I looked at it and it was the OW that he had an affair with last year; the last one I know about.

I told him that she called. He immediately said that she had called him a couple of times last night but that he didn't answer. He said he didn't know why she would be calling him. Later, he said that someone called him and that the guy said that she had referred him to my H .... sorry XH. That's hard to type. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Anyway, I have no reason to believe that story after all that I've seen and heard. Typing this out helps b/c I know what elaborate lies he concocts and I still remember the lies from the tapes.

He also told me that the OW from 9 years ago called him as well last week. He said he told her that we were divorcing in part b/c of her; that is true. B/c of her and the last OW I believe he's a serial cheater.

Why do I hurt so bad? Why am I in so much pain and misery? I can only think of a couple of times in my life when I was this low. And, I can't talk about it to anyone but you guys b/c I can't tell anyone that we are divorced until he knows. I don't think that's the right thing to do regardless of what he has done.

I also have to keep pushing forward and getting my things b/c we are divorced. He has already told me that once it's final that it. He is moving on with other relationships and we will never have another chance.

Somebody please tell me that I have done the right thing. I'm so sorry that I'm so needy but I really am low right now. I've done nothing but cry all day. I need to get some sleep and go back tomorrow and I am just a basket case.

Please tell me this will get better. I do not remember this kind of pain w/my first divorce. We both knew it was over and we signed the papers and let it go. This is killing me.

You saw calls from OW. And he admitted to calls from other OW. Isn't that enough proof that he isn't changing?

He continues with the behavior that got your marriage into this place -- even while asking you what he needs to do to fix things.

So a week ago, he was willing to do ANYTHING to get you back.....like taking calls from OW and telling her he's divorcing? Yeahhhhhhh, sounds like a guy who's trying reallllllly hard!

Maybe that was a message God was giving you. A glimpse back into that world of mistrust and abuse.

Keep moving on. A better life is waiting for you. IT WILL GET BETTER!

Funny about the OW's call. I thought the same thing. Did God allow that to happen or orchestrate that happening when I would see it?

I think sometimes he says stuff to me to make me think "Geez, other women are interested in him and if I don't hurry up and say "yes" to talking about working it out, one of them is going to get him".

He did tell me yesterday that he has a "friend" who is a judge and she has been giving him legal advice. Funny ..... The last OW that I know about was a "friend" who gave him advice b/c she is a counselor. That's the one that called.

I know that I have to make it through getting my stuff out and telling him that we're divorced. After that, I can cut contact.

I didn't think I had any tears left. They've been pouring out all day.

I have to move forward now b/c we are divorced. There's no going back now. He has told me also that once it's over, it's over. He won't put himself in the position to be hurt again.

It was really hard today knowing that we're divorced and listening to him beg me to try and work things out.

So hard.

L2S:

I am late to your thread and I will make this short. I just moved. If I had not moved, I would be sitting on the board of an abuse shelter and for good reason that needs no explanation.



Please don't do that. You owe him nothing. He owes you and will never pay you except with abuse. I have seen some really terrific advice freely given to you, especially the several posts by friend and lexxy.

You have been caught up in the drama. Your emotions are numb and at the same time surreal. He has manipulated you to the point where it isn't just a part of your life, it is your life. You will feel empty for a while. Then life will get better.

A rainbow will come out of the sky onto your head one day and your heart will be full of joy. And this because you found the courage to completely divorce him from your life and from your thoughts. This is what you are going to do, right?

I wish you well.

Larry

And I should add that based on your statements, I believe this man to be dangerous. If he is, the most dangerous time for you will be when he is convinced that you can no longer be manipulated through intimidation and charm.

Please, please, be very, very careful. I do not want you to be a statistic.

Larry

This has to be by far the most difficult situation I have gotten myself into and the most painful to get myself out of.

He called me this morning and told me that the OW showed up at his house last night b/c he wouldn't return her calls. He said she came to apologize for her part in the demise of our M.

I'm thinking that if she was that sorry:

a) she wouldn't have gone to his house
b) she would have called me not him

but........

I'm wondering if it was a cover b/c she came over and he wanted to make sure that he had a ready excuse just in case I rode by or someone told me they saw a car there. Neither happened.

I'm going back for about 3 hours today and resume packing.

I have got to tell him that we're divorced. When I do, I really don't know what will happen. Anger, threats of suicide most likely. Or, just tell me to get my stuff and get out of his life.

Anyway............prayers needed.