I love cars, and I love the nicer variety of cars, but I'm also pretty tight with money. So I compromised with myself and bought an older Mercedes to get the best of both worlds.

I bought an E-400 with 87,000 miles on it and it was 9 years old when I got it. Not many people can look at a Mercedes and tell what year it is. They are incredible to drive and last for a long time. I now have over 160,000 miles on it and it's 14 years old, and probably has another 100,000 miles left on it. I paid less than 1/3 of what the price is for the one your wife wants. And I can get 1/3 of what I paid for it out of it if I sell it today.

That might be a reasonable compromise. Or, if she's fiercely adamant, you might consider the terms of a 2 year lease, which I normally wouldn't recommend. Lower monthly payments, and only a 2 year committment. And you might get lucky with an affordable buyout at the end of the lease.

The big drawback to leasing is that you will have the higher insurance costs, taxes and zero equity.

I made a couple of expensive purchases when my W and I were in recovery that I had some serious misgivings about. It's hard to say no to someone still living with such a sense of entitlement. One you are trying to lure back to the marriage, and they are so reluctant to commit.

Go pick out a nice used car in the same likeness of what she's wanting in a new model, and surprise her with it at home. It will look great (much better than sitting next to 100 NEW ones) parked in your driveway, and then sell her on the lesser insurance and taxes, plus the (imported) luxury models tend to have better resale value, and in a couple of years when the marriage has stabilized, you'll be eager to look at a new(er) version.

Hope that helps
SD

She got a nice 2005 Audi A4 - for half the price of the mdx she was going to get. It's a nice car, and she's really happy with it. I had recommended her to get a car under 30k, and she did! So she listened to me, makes me think she respects me in some way - she may be angry at me but respects me a little. The best part is that she's happy with it, I could see it in her, she said she loves it. I told her I was really happy that she got something she liked and asked her to show it to me. She said "Go outside and look at it." but I said "No, I want you to show me and tell me about it." so she did and seemed to enjoy telling me about it. So a nice little moment together after the tense time we had the day before.

I'm in the very early stages of recovery, and playing the part, following the good advice you've given me and others in my shoes - no LB's unless absolutely necessary (like no $50,000 cars yet and the last, big exposure LB) - I'm doing little things, to make her happy, living my live how I want to, spending time with the kids, being helpful to her when she needs it, etc.

Question:
What should I do now if I find out she sees OM again? How do you handle that without committing a LB? Or do you have to do a LB to confront it? What should I do if she's keeping in touch with him via email or text messages but not seeing him? What if she sees him? I'm going to step up my efforts to keep track of any contact she might have with him, and am hopeful I don't find anything but want to know what to do if I do, considering that I'm in early recovery. Maybe tell the exposure folks, her mother, OM's parents, ex-wife? Should I confront my wife also? And how? Thanks for your help..

Another thing, is that now I really feel pretty detached from my wife. I feel like I would be perfectly fine without her, sometimes even think it'd be better that way. I have no fear of us splitting up, no fear of being alone. But I'm working on the M for the kids. I feel like I can do what it takes to recover, I don't get sad anymore, I don't get very angry anymore either. This is like a project I'm working on. I have to save our marriage for our kids. However, I WILL NOT settle for an unhappy, loveless marriage. If I feel my wife will never love me or be happy with me, I'll let her go. If she started falling in love with me, it would be easy for me to reopen my heart to her. But it would be just as easy to leave it closed, and let her go. I need to be careful not to end it too soon. I will not let her stay in this marriage as a prisoner, unhappy in our home. This would be a bad situation for her, me, and the kids. The kids will learn from us that a couple doesn't show any affection for each other, are instead very formal around each other. I don't want this. They should see that a couple is comprised of two happy people who love each other and have fun together. Even if that means Mommy and Daddy split up and have remarried. They need to see that a marriage is a happy thing. What do you think?

Listen, right now you need to be focused on preventing her from having any contact whatsoever w/ OM until she gets through withdrawal. This can last anywhere from two to six months, but most likely the length of the affair. Do whatever you need to ensure, and set boundaries and enforce them. If she calls OM on cell phone and you pay the bill, turn it off. I don't know what you need to do if she meets up with OM again, but it needs to be calm, swift, and full of consequence. I might do a phone counseling session with SH as to your best course of action. You can obviously afford it. It is worth the money.

As for a loveless marriage, it will take time. Don't expect anything yet. It will take up to six months for withdrawal to end, and expect full recovery to last another year and a half. Once the first six months are over, you should start to see improvement. This is a marathon not a sprint. It will seem loveless for quite some time. Stick with the program and you will be rewarded in the long run. Give yourself at least a year to see how things are going before you make any decisions. Keep reading up on plan A, ENs, and LBs. Your situation is classic. You should be happy to know your WW got over exposure and let go of OM more easily than most. Be careful that this didn't just go further underground. Keep us posted.

The emotional detachment you feel is your best ally right now. Women are more likely to be drawn to you if you are casually indifferent, rather than emotional and needy.

It was when I reached that point that my Plan A was most effective. It was a bit like a "live" chess game. Nothing she could do or say could hurt me any more. I was done with her crap, but not done with the marriage. It made it fun to toy with her in some regards.

Yes, be vigilant on the contact front. If she does remain in contact, do a scorched earth exposure to all who were exposed to before. Remember to expose from "love", not vengence.

You are doing just fine. Let Plan A continue and use some of what was recommended in earlier posts. And Jim had some good advice too, call the Harley's and get some spot-on profession direction.

Patience, Grasshopper! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD

Sounds like the "loveless marriage" will last longer than I thought - I'll definitely have to be patient!

My wife says she never really was in love with me. Maybe that was partly Fog talk, but I think there was some truth to it. So my hope is that our marriage will be better than before. It has to be! I won't settle for our marriage as it was before. I want to make sure she's really happy being with me, in love with me, more than before, otherwise another affair will surely happen.

So shattered dreams, how did you toy with your wife? I'd love to have fun with my wife! I feel the way you describe - I'm not done with the marriage, but don't feel dependent on it at all anymore. I have to be careful that I don't seem like I don't love her anymore, and that I don't make any major decisions too quickly.

Regarding Steve H - why is he so expensive? Supply and Demand, of course, marriages are worth saving even if it's expensive, but 185 is a lot of money, esp. if there are several sessions needed. I spoke with him for one session, he was good no doubt, just think it's a lot of money, and you can't cover it with insurance (no insurance codes). Also, where does he say you should expose the affair to everyone? I've read articles on this site and Surviving an Affair, how exposing it can end it, but he seems to mean exposing it to be just telling WS you know about the A, not specifically telling everyone about it.

Another question:
What about sex? We haven't had any physical affection in at least two months. There are a lot of different opinions on this I know - what do you think?

If you are going to have SF, she needs to be tested first.

If you think two months is a while, then you need to read up on my story. D-day for me was in late August. We hadn't had SF for nearly a month before that (not that it was ever frequent before that). Her A ended in early November. She broke NC several times to "see how OM was doing," the last of which was late January. I STILL HAVEN'T HAD SF WITH MY W, and it's been NINE MONTHS! I've talked to my W about this and I'm respecting her wishes to take it slow, and lately she's been saying, "one of these days I'm going to be really horny and the dam will finally burst," which is much better than, "I'm never having SF with you again," which is what she was saying in Nov. and Dec. If I can wait over nine months (and I'm 26), I'm sure you can last a little while. I just thought I'd put things in perspective.

LOL! If you think MC with the Harley's is expensive, jot down how much a divorce will cost. It pales in comparison. And wouldn't you rather spend what it takes to get a pro-marriage professional with a sterling reputation, not to mention the founder of this site, rather than take your chances with an unknown MC, most of whom are dedicated to "assist" you through an "amicable" divorce?

I'm not sure how to explain how I "toyed" with my then WW, and not even sure that was a good choice of words. I just know that the emotional detachment allowed me to see what was fog talk, and I would just laugh it off, and go on with an enthusiastic Plan A in spite of it all. I had heard so much of the venomous "spew" that it used up my capacity to be hurt any more. There was nothing she could say that made any impact on me, because I just learned not to let it. I began to see patterns of how we were in a rut in trying to communicate with each other, and tried to change those patterns, so we didn't always end up with the same results we had before. I was less defensive, and less likely to "strike back" when something antogonistic was said to me.

Other times I'd just throw her words back at her in an affable tone. She: "I never have loved you". Me: "Well it's interesting that you married me, gave birth to 3 marvelous children with me, and never loved me? Are you absolutely sure you NEVER, ever loved me?" Stuff like that, I guess.

Regarding SF...keep spending the 15 hours a week in "quality" time with your W. Have as much fun as possible. The leisure time you spend together, without constant relationship talks, is critical. This is when and how the "reconnection" takes place. Take weekend trips together, or better yet, take a weeklong get-a-way, a cruise or trip to someplace exciting... and romantic. Let your feelings be known, but don't press. Make her feel desired, without pressure. (easier said than done) The more of her EN's that you are meeting, the more likely she is to come around. Figure out what EN's the OM was meeting, and then meet them in your own way. Typically, conversation coupled with admiration is a pretty safe bet. Always listen when she speaks, and focus on getting her to talk about those things that are important to her. In other words, validate what she is saying, so she knows you "get" her.

Keep the relationship talks to a minimum, and do all you can to make the relationship non-threatening to her. She needs time to come to terms with what she's done, the guilt, the shame, the pain she's inflicted, and, sadly, the feeling that she's lost someone dear to her. It takes a wayward an abundant amount of time to deal with "their" side of infidelity, just as it does a BS.

Hope some of that makes sense
SD

I am getting pretty depressed right now. I don't know if we'll ever rebuild our marriage. My wife and I don't talk much at all except for necessary things. I try to talk to her and she just gives simple answers. Just now she says she doesn't want to talk to me about things. The nice things I do for her she says thanks, but that's it. Nothing in return. This is expected in plan A, but it's really hard. I don't see any hope.

She's going through a lot I know. She's still reeling from the exposure. She might be going thru withdrawal if she's still not seeing OM. She has a lot of anger for me right now, as I've seen in recent arguments we've had. Gosh I don't know if I can go thru this for month after month. It's like living in a prison. She's living in one too. What kind of a life is this? Why don't we just split up now and be on our way? I know we need to make it work for our kids, but my wife's feelings for me are so messed up so deeply for her, I sometimes wonder if this is broken beyond repair. There's just no love, no feelings, nothing at all.

She has no remorse for what she did. How can we reconcile if she will never recognize what she did. She blames me for everything, when her mother cries to her on the phone, she blames me for 5crewing up her relationship with her family. She recently said "I owe her" for all I've done. I don't think she's ever going to realize what she's done, or the impact of it. She's so headstrong. She's held grudges for years against family members she was mad at for much much smaller things.

Please tell me why I should go on. I feel like I'm a strong guy, but this is wearing me down, this coldness, this detachment, this "formal" relationship. I read everywhere about how reconciliation depends on the betraying spouse feeling remorseful, expressing regret, and wanting to fix the marriage. My wife is nowhere near that. She's staying with me, ending her A (as far as I know) because I threatened to divorce her and the exposure, and she knows an intact family is best for the kids. She hates me for what I've done, resents me for "getting what I wanted" and "making no sacrifice" (the "sacrifice" would be letting her continue her affair if I wanted to keep her friendship..). She is really out of this marriage emotionally. We're at the rock bottom. Help!

Change your focus, and take it off her, and focus entirely on you. One of two things is happening right now. Either NC is in place and she's going through withdrawal, or, she still making contact with him and the affair continues.

Assuming there is no contact, then assuming she's in withdrawal, can be a lengthy ordeal. She will walk around as if a zombie, not speaking unless spoken to, and hosting a huge pity party for herself. She is wallowing in the quagmire she created. Allow this to continue for a while, and focus on YOU.

Stay busy, upbeat, positive and have fun. Don't let her be a dead anchor in your life. Withdrawal is finite, and will fade away, but ever so tediously slowly. Change is so slow that you might not see it till you look backwards. Recovey is a real bear, and takes resolve.

We have all had the same thoughts you are having, and sometimes it comes to having to give up, but, don't you want to know for sure you did all you could to save the marriage before you pull the plug?

If you are just hanging out waiting on a switch to flip, and a loving, dependable, caring wife to just "appear", you are going to be sadly dissappointed. Stay busy as ******, and quit worrying about her every thought, and how this will all turn out. Focus on keeping you sane and happy, and the rest will follow.

You've got to believe ....
SD

R U ready for plan B?

L.

hopefuldad,

I just want to tell you that recovery is sometimes just as hard as plan A. Like your WW, mine was not very remorseful when I finally got her to end her affair. We went through about 3 months of her being extremely cold and distant to me. She would tell me how she was never going to have SF with me ever again and that I was "trapping" her in a bad M (I don't know how I "trapped" her because she was free to pursue OM, just not on my dime anymore). Well, after about 3 months of withdrawal, we started hanging out together and having some fun. It has been 6 months since her A has ended, and we still haven't had SF, but we are kissing, holding, and knocking on the door. Even without the SF, we have a better relationship now in many ways than we did in the two years prior to the A. The point is that recovery is a long and painful road, but if you can make it through to the other side, it is worth it. You just need to be strong now and expect absolutely NOTHING from your WW for at least 6 months.

The affair was still going on, my wife went there this evening, said she was going to go to a store to take a break from studying. I suspected something, so went to OM's apt shortly after she left and saw her car there. I called her cell, she answered, and I told her she needed to come home, she said why, I said You're a married woman, she said what? You're a married woman. She just hung up the phone. Came home an hour later.

I'm so ready to divorce now. I just don't know if I have the cajones to kick her out and go for custody, etc. I know I should but don't think I can or want to. I don't want to hurt my kids. But they're gonna get hurt anyway. I'm going to talk to a lawyer tomorrow. I have been documenting everything.

hopeful,

My only recommendation is don't do anything half way. Make sure the path you choose is the one you feel is best for you and your kids. Then having chosen it, go for it full tilt.

God Bless,

JL

PS: Now you know why plan A was not working. You should really consider plan B now. And another rounds of exposure. It is not your fault, and she is still in the affair, so what she has said is pretty much along the lines of standard dialogue from a WS.

Hopeful,

Trust yourself. Do what is you know what is right. This approach won't fail you. You know what is right.

I feel for you. It is so hard. Only choice is to do what is right. You know what it is. Go do it. Be consistent. Go do what is right. Be consistent. Go do what is right.

hopefuldad,

Your WW is an addict. The only way to get through to an addict is a tough line in the sand kind of stance. You take control. Isn't she a SAHM? She can't afford anything, much less her new car. Tell her that if she is going to continue to see OM, she needs to find somewhere else to stay, you aren't going to support her financially, and the kids stay with you. Get with your lawyer, and separate as much of the finances as you can. Trust me, your W does not want her marriage to end. If you take a tough stand, she will likely say that she doesn't want a divorce. You need to get tough and help your WW through this addiction. Track her phone calls, put GPS on her car, make a foolproof way to tell if she makes contact with OM, and hold her responsible when she does. Re-expose to her parents. You can fight through this and make it, but not if you just give up.

My wife suddenly changed after that event - she suddenly became her old self again, nice, friendly, all the tension is gone. She's not being artificially nice, doesn't seem to be faking it, and there's no sarcasm that I've seen before. She called me and wanted to meet me for lunch, a first after a long time, and talks to me normally. I've known her for 14 years and I really think it's her real, former wayward self.

Objectively looking at it though, one of these things probably has happened:
1. She snapped out of it and realized what she was doing was wrong and now wants to do the right thing,
2. She had a fight or something with OM after I called her, and she's now "free" from him and realizes I'm not such a bad guy,
3. She and OM are in cahoots to trick me into thinking everything's fine, so I won't suspect her anymore and will stop tracking her down, then they can see each other again later without interruptions,
4. She's acting it all out to keep me from filing for D and/or "re-exposing" (I hadn't had a chance to re-expose yet)

I have to admit I love seeing my real wife again, it's like I've gone back in time, my whole outlook is positive again, it's so weird. But I'm worried she's not being genuine, that #3 or #4 is happening, that she's just picking me up to drop me down again. Has anyone been through something similar?

Remember the arcade machine called "Wack-a-Mole"?

During the early stages of recovery there is constant morphing between the WS and the FW (former wife). One will appear and you'll take a whack at it, then it will dissappear and the "other" will pop up, then you take a whack at it. Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Any of the four options you wrote may be the "one", and maybe it's a combination of all four. At any rate you must consider that it could be any of the four and prepare yourself to deal with each of those eventualities.

Prepare to further expose at the drop of a hat if you find that contact continues. Likewise, prepare for the A going further underground, and snoop without getting caught. You must protect yourself from further deception.

Otherwise, keep all of the positive changes you have made in place and continue Plan A, and engage her whenever you can. Limit the relationship talks and court her as if you just met her and were interested in furthering a relationship with her. Listen carefully to her words and validate what she has to say. Ask question to get her to expand on topics she feels comfortable talking about. Many men are somewhat dismissive when it comes to "talking" with their W's, and methinks that's when a marriage becomes vulnerable, and an OM can sense the needy desire in a woman for conversation. They fill that need, and the rest is a pathway filled with human wreckage once the affair begins.

Most importantly, remember that recover WILL take two years or longer, with positive results being very hard to spot and define until you've collected some history on the back side of the affair. Looking back you can see the progress, but in the day to day "living" of recovery, progress is hard to perceive.

Yes, it's weird. It's a peculiar dance between two very troubled people. It's indescribable. It's difficult. In this world of immediate gratification, it's very hard to sustain the Plan A efforts over such a long time period with so little received in return. But it must be done, and done with extreme patience.

I'm glad things appear to be taking a turn for the better. Accept every positive sign with immense gratitude, but beware that it might just as easily be the ploy you suggested.

Keep on keeping on...
SD

hopefuldad,

See how you are in control. I told you she doesn't want a divorce, she just wanted to stay married and pursure her affair. However, you need to be vigilant and catch her whenever she tries to sneak away. Put a GPS tracker in her car. They are only around $100-200, and if you can afford an Audi, you can afford the GPS to track it. It is worth the investment for the piece of mind and ability to monitor and prevent contact. She is still an addict. Don't think for a minute that this is the end of her A.

Thanks you two for sticking with me. I only have a few people I speak with outside of this post, and you are the only ones who keep me working on this marriage - everyone else is amazed at why I haven't left yet.

I haven't made her write the OM an NC letter. She's said a few weeks ago in anger that she wouldn't see him til after we got divorced after I started the exposure, but she didn't pull the D trigger (though I did find a lawyer business card in her papers). I know she would't honor this letter. The OM has pictures of her also, 5ex pictures. I want to get her to take those back, or to take them off his computer, but don't know how to do that. I think if I find her there again, I'm going to confont them both then and there, and do it then, maybe threaten D if she doesn't, etc. I get an adrenaline surge when I find her there, and this would be pretty easy for me to do I'm sure (though I've never done that yet, instead always confronted my wife about it afterward). What do you think?

What a hilarious story about the Whack-a-Hole!

I'm really working hard at not talking about our relationship. My wife says little comments about it here and there - that she's mad at me for this or that, that I've 5crewed up her family relationship (from exposure), that she's a "progressive", blah blah, but I just say "uh-huh" or "ok" and change the topic - avoiding all LB's (except for direct interference with her affair).

She still goes out a lot on her own, but usually with her friends - but I'm pretty good at telling when she's lying or not, I'm 4 for 4 when it comes to catching her at OM's place. But I don't know what all she does during the day when I'm at work. I'm trying to spend more time with her though.

Do those GPS's work? I've heard you have to put it in the glove box, and she'd surely find it there. I wouldn't want her to find out about it either - then that $200 unit is worthless, and it's a LB, and would make her go further underground (like parking far away, or meeting somewhere else).

Also, it seems so far off that recovery would be well under way, I just can't imagine her being truly happy with me, sad as it sounds. But that's what I want, for the kids mainly, but I do still love her underneath all this crud, even though many times I feel like I feel nothing for her at all.

Thanks for keeping up with my story.