Quick rundown of history, since I am new:

Married 7/97
DD born 10/98
PI caught WH having PA w/coworker OW#1 in 2000
DD born 5/02
Caught WH text messaging OMW 2006
Caught sending/receiving sexual photos w/above OMW 12/06
Caught sending emails/talking to to 3 more OW
Blew his cover w/all 12/06 by phone and email, hopefully ruining his chances to go back with them for all time...
OW#2 says he cheated off and on from 2002-2006.
Supposedly nothing happening since 12/06

I feel like there has been something going on at least the past month or so. WH spends WAY too much time "working, shopping, etc". He is out of the house almost 6 nights a week until 12-2am. The WH is much, much smarter than before about how to cheat and not get caught. Keeps work mobile phone at work, knows not to use his mobile to call as all calls go on the statement, but I think using text messaging now that we went unlimited, and it doesn't log the numbers...

Things came to a head this past weekend when we were coming back home from a weekend at family's. He went to restroom, and left the mobile phone when I asked him to. As usual the logs were all empty. I finally got smart and acted like I was going to send a text message. I went into the "recent log" and saw a phone number I didn't recognize. At this moment WH came back, saw what I was looking at, and snatched the phone out of my hand. He refused to tell me who it was. Big fight, me threatening divorce, he says "are you trying to ruin my life?"

Hours later he says it's a business associate, after he's made sure I don't have the number. Says he has to drop off SS at his moms, will discuss when he comes home. I think he actually will. He leaves, and ignores my calls until 11:30pm- says he is at the store. I drag DD's out of bed, go to store- no WH! He is lying about where he is. I go back home and wait until he comes home. Says he had to think, yes, he lied about where he was. Buys me a card! Then acts like same normal jerk I know and refuses to tell me anything- saying that I always told him the past year that if I caught him again, it was divorce. Except- that I was constantly accusing him of cheating (so why not do it?), and bring up the "past". I admit this is true. I couldn't let it go, and couldn't face the idea that someday soon, I might have to learn that yet another year of my life was invalidated by him cheating. Said number was a "staffing agency". Yeah, like you need to text a staffing agency...

I am torn beyond belief. My heart and paranoid brain say something is happening. Why does he need to never be home anymore? He does have a new job- as of 9 months ago- requires lots of hours (manager, salaried- no timeclock). He is trying to put all blame on me, says he has done nothing wrong, has not physically cheated. I ask him to be home for dinner, wasn't doing it. I ask him to call me once an hour from his work phone, didn't want to do it. Says he's at work, and actually in the car (It was raining and I heard wipers.)

Treating myself and DD's like roommates isn't working for me. We don't seem to have anything in common anymore. We don't fill each others needs, and am not sure if M is beyond repair? I am depressed, anxious. Went to DR and got RX today for Lexapro. Trying to find couseling (he says he will go.) Trying to find some clarity, so I can decide what to do. Tired of being the responsible one here at home with DD's while he does his own thing.

My main waffling at this point is: is the marriage able to be fixed? Is he emotionally too far gone? Do I even want that? Have I had enough controlling, manipulating behavior? Is this hurting my children never to be able to count on WH anymore? He doesn't keep his promises. Would they be better off with us seperated, and hopefully happier?

I am sure I wrote too much, and explained too little <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Please respond. I will try and respond to everyone's questions and comments.

phoenix, welcome to MB. Fasten your seat belt and hang on.

Your WH is a hardcore, fence-sitting, cake-eating, garden-variety Wayward Spouse. He has adopted a cheating lifestyle and he found out early on that all he had to do to keep it going was lie to you.

He also found out that you would make threats but never carry them out and that if he bullied you, you'd complain but back right down.

Now he feels free to run roughshod over you to keep his cheating lifestyle going. He no doubt feels like king of the world since he's got a wife when he wants one AND girlfriends when he wants them, too.

He will keep this up forever unless there are consequences that make it worth his while to change. And never forget that the fact that his cheating causes you pain is NOT sufficient reason for him to change. In other words, he won't change until his actions hurt HIM - he will never change if all they do is hurt YOU.

This is the mindset of a WS.

You need the basics:

1) Read all you can on this site - not just the message boards, but the Basic Concepts in the headers at the top of this page.

2) Read *His Needs, Her Needs* and *Surviving an Affair.* You can order them through this site or from amazon or from a local bookstore.

3) Start doing a short Plan A but prepare right now to go to Plan B. You may need a legal separation to protect yourself when (not if) you go to Plan B.

4) What steps have you taken to protect your finances? WSs often blow tons of family money on their OP.

Let us know, and hang in there -
Mulan

IMO, you should divorce him. He is a serial cheater and I think you know deep down inside that you are not safe with this "man." I am sorry you are in such pain.


MEDC

mkeverydaycnt- I tend to agree with you. I have been reading about "serial cheaters". My feeling is that he is, based on the following:

family background- father cheated long term when WH was a child. Mother has been a cheater up to past couple years- but her current boyfriend is the OM!

WH's past dating practices- I call it being a player- but in fact was cheating. Never had less than 2 women strung along at a time. Found out much later that when he met me, he was cheating. He seems to jump into emotional relationships too quickly. He is hard and fast with affections. We never really dated, just jumped right into cohabitation.

Mulan- I love your description. Recently it is the attitue that is getting to me. It's that when I don't demand he call me, and be up his keister, he doesn't, then says he felt "more relaxed" the next day, because he had time to "think".

You are correct about consequences. He says he doesn't want to hurt me, but does it anyway. He was always super-sensitive about his own feelings, but not necessarily anyone elses. the world does revolve around him.

I am trying to do plan A, but not being up his keister, trying to be loving, etc. I suppose I need to try even harder, lie, act, etc- to implement plan A. I need to purchase the books- because plan A isn't adequately described on the website, just by others in the forum. I really need the book for that. What kind of time should I give a good plan A?

I am preparing for plan B by getting my own checking account. I will be asking my work to deposit my check into there. He is already getting paranoid about that. I took a look at my credit situation. He has been paying bills late (too many pans in the fire??) So I consolidated 4 high intrest cards into 2 less so. My credit isn't great right now. Am considering trading in my new van ($500+/mo- only 6K miles) for a cheaper car- but I think I will be eating my shirt on that one. I may be very upside down. I am taking more interest in bills, trying to get started paying my own. It's one of my biggest fears about living by myself.

WH doesn't have much money TO go thru- but I intend to stop blithly handing him mine!

Still trying to get us into counseling...

Will write back tomorrow, latest!

My heart aches for you, phoenix. My first H was the exact same way. In year seven of our marriage he had three affairs, and many, many inappropriate friendships throughout the 20 years we were married.

You know, we divorced in 2000, after I stupidly chose to have an affair to _________________ (the blank is filled with things from raise my self esteem <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> to pay him back). It was wrong, stupid and a very poor choice that ruined my life.

Ahem, anyway...

... the point I wanted to make is that AFTER the divorce, AFTER I left him, AFTER I married someone else... my ex-H came to me and FINALLY told me the truth about who he was throughout our marriage. VERY SCARY! Lord, if only I'd known... except somewhere inside, I DID. I bet you know what I mean!

I don't know why it took leaving him to get him to realize, and me to find the truth, but I'll tell you... had I KNOWN what I know now, I would have gone into a Plan B pronto, and possibly not gotten to the point of choosing an affair to make myself "feel better" about myself.

So, my thought is that yes, you can make your marriage sweet again, even after infidelity... but like Mulan said, buckle your seatbelt... and your H has LOADS AND LOADS AND LOADS of work to do so you can BEGIN to trust him again...

... or, like MEDC says, you can cut your losses and get out now...

Either way, PROTECT YOURSELF AND YOUR GIRLS... make a PLAN... Read about Plan A and B, and think about doing some counselling with the Harley's... a phone call at least, to see what they think...

Serial cheaters erode your self esteem in ways that often aren't seen for a long time... NOW is the time to make some changes to protect what's left of yours...

**************************************
Here is an often-repeated post that may help you understand Plan A:
**************************************

"The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A" by Pepperband

THE CARROT OF PLAN A:

Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



THE STICK OF PLAN A

Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Allowing the consequences of adultery and infidelity to fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to affect children of the marriage or the financial security of the marriage, or otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slain for the good of the family.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

PR513,

You have a 10yo Stepson with this man and you've been married almost 10 yrs. Was he married (and lying to you about it) when you met?

"Found out much later that when he met me, he was cheating."

Is that what this means?

Phoenix:


What do you do now?

Divorce him.

This type of behavior will never change.

What else is he giving you in this relationship?

Because there has to be a plus side.

But I don't see it.

bringiton- he and his girlfreind split when she was mid-pregnancy. I met my WH when the SS was 6 months old.

lousygolfer- no, I am not getting much out of it.

His stepmother called and I told her he wasn't home again. She called him and bent his ear for an hour. He actually came home around 8pm. We were talking. He was being all sweet and loving, trying to hug and kiss me. I was pretty disgusted, and didn't want to. I told him no more marital relations until he acts trustworthy again. He blew up at first, and got angry. Then he had a few drinks. He said he had alot on his mind with work, deaths in the extended family, etc, etc. We talked for hours (just not about what needs to be said, you know what I mean?) he doesn't want to talk aboout the right things because we just "argue", he says.

I am almost ashamed to admit I went back on what I said. He was so loving and affectionate for hours that he wore me down. It was like me saying "no more" challanged something in him. I feel dissapointed in myself for allowing it to happen. I feel like I lost ground.

I thought yesterday I needed to launch into plan B- but maybe I can do plan A? Are you supposed to do the carrot and stick at the same time, or first carrot- then stick. Going out of my way to be loving, caring, desiring is going to be really tough if he continues to not come home.

I feel like a total incompetant. I obviously need counseling because he has me totally wrapped. I cut him off, he finally gives me some of what I want. I didn't want the relations, but I was a sucker for undivided attention, apparently.

Started taking Lexapro today and I feel nauseas.

Since my last post:

1. upped my dose of Lexapro recently to 20mg. But thinking it doesn't help much since my depression is SITUATIONAL, not general!! Situation being:

2. Kept a log of WH's time out of the house. Left it on the table for him. He still didn't get it. Whole month of April- basically not home except on weekends he had stepson here. Still had "missing" time. Lots of 12am-3am arrivals home. Keep in mind I have 2 kids at home here missing him.

3. Started going to counseling. Had one session by myself, one together. WH said he wants to get individual counseling for his past. Supposed to go together tomorrow, but his boss is in town, so he can't go. I am still going to go, because:

4. He pulled his trick again. The more we argue, the more the sick b*st*rd wants me. The more I say no, the sweeter he gets until he gets what he wanted. The niceness never lasts long. Except when he thought I was alseep he snuck out of bed to get on - you guessed it- the work cellphone! The one he says he's been leaving at work...
and the bills don't come home, they go to his office.

5. He admitted he has been going out to bars with a woman from a "staffing agency" and her friends. (and I am supposed to believe that's it???)

So- I guess last year when I told him if he ever cheated again I would divorce him- he wasn't listening?

I am very torn as to what to do. I am not stupid, but he has committed so much emotional abuse, I am not sure what I am doing. I am trying to say I want to work it out, but mostly my heart tells me:

I will never trust him again.
He doesn't respect me.
He plays emotional games with me.

I have to find the strength to leave him. I have never lived on my own, and I'm 32 next week. It's fear of leaving,, especially since I have never been great with money. Good at spending, really.

One major issue right now is this. I can go to a lawyer and get a seperation agreement, but neither WH or I have the money to set up a seperate residence. I told him we could both live in our house until it sells. I could use another address as my legal address until then, so we could be "legally" seperated. We do have space to make seperate bedrooms

He says he couldn't handle seeing me and "wanting" me. (Hello?) He says he couldn't see how it wouldn't make me worry about where he was all the time. I said- I'm already living there now. I wouldn't care as long as you are here for whatever many days/night you are supposed to take the kids. .

He said he wouldn't allow any one else in the house. I said- are you talking to me? You really think I'm gonna jump into the dating pool right away? (He's the one that will do that- he slept with 3 women when we were seperated for a month- 5 years ago)

I don't know what other arrangement we can make? I could stay a couple nights a week w/grandparents, but my first urge is to tell him to find elsewhere to stay, as I don't want to be seen as deserting my role as mother. Why should I have to find someplace to stay? He says he won't go to his family because they "interfere" with his life. His parents aren't good role models anyway- both cheaters.

But if he has to pay for someplace to stay- the mortgage isn't getting paid...? Help? Should I make his suck it up without a seperation agreement until the house sells? I don't care if it takes 3-4 more months for a legal seperation. Should I?