Frog, I love your sig line reference to your wife's email. That's just awesome.

I have scheduled for WH and DS to be at OUR home this weekend, after that, I will not be helping anymore. My DS has so looked forward to seeing his dad this weekend, and I want for him to have that.

It's an utter shame that WH does not use his own experience being around adultery as a child and how it scewed his own sensibilies about love and marriage. I certainly have been using my experiences as a child from divorced and multiple marriage family. I don't want my son to grow up thinking that his happiness is less of a concern that MY OWN.

SL,

Thanks we email back and forth every day. Until I got the new job we worked right around the corner from her so I would meet her at breaks now we can't.

So that was one of her resposnes figured it would be a good fit there for a while.

She called me a butt head today but didn't think that should go there. LOL.

I think you have the right attitude though. As a parent, a good parent, your first thought should be to protect your child. There will be enough crap thrown at them as they grow older from a harsh world. They don't need a father throwing it at them.

Funny how some people grow up in a crappy home and turn out great while others don't.

I don't get it.

You are doing what is best for the DS and that is all you can do.

It would be nice if my son could grow up believing in commitment, and understanding your responsibilities in life. Having fun can be pretty easy, but it's not worth it at the expense of those you love.

I'm probably not the right person to give advice, because I have been dealing with OM being around my children for a while now without having any real recourse. It frustrates the ****** out of me, but legally, I can't prevent her from doing anything that doesn't threaten the children--the courts won't interfere in her personal life. I don't think she has taken the kids to his apartment yet, but there's nothing I can do about it. She tells me that there haven't been any overnights yet (that would be inappropriate), but there's nothing I can do about it. Telling her that it's inappropriate or that there's less than a 1% chance of their relationship working out--that's trying to reason with a Fogged-Out Zombie.

Attempting to force the issue by "forbidding" it or the like will only work against me in court. Jennifer told me that yes, it will be a big trigger, but that this is how it will be in divorce anyway, and "it's not like he's a drug dealer." She's still a mom and will protect the kids from threats that she sees and understands.

Do I like it? Of course not. I hate every second of it, but there it is. I have been struggling with whether to send an email to WW stating specifically how inappropriate I think it is for her to have OM around the kids--while you two are married, it's immoral and wrong and will hurt the kids and you guys won't be together anyway and and and

But will she listen to this? In her mind, she's not married now. She actually said that to my mom in repsonse to "It's wrong for you have the other man around--you're a married woman." She said "No, I'm not." Waywards are nutty, but they are still parents, and until they demonstrate otherwise, the courts will respect that.

Everyone here is incredibly offended by the whole concept of infidelity (rightly so--we understand the effects), and we have an idea of the long-term consequences of it, but I think that the reality outside of the MB forum is a bit different. If I decided to cancel a visit because I didn't agree with the morality of what she was doing with the kids (e.g., sharing a hotel room with MOM while on vacation with the kids), not only would the court not agree with me, they would hold it against me. This was made clear to me at my mediation session the other day.

I don't know. Maybe my approach is wrong, but it feels like the best one for me right now. I suspect that fighting against contact between my kids and OM would 1) provide drama, 2) make her want to do it more, and 3) provide contact between WW and myself, and I'm trying to stay dark.

Maybe the Maryland courts are different from the CA ones, but I think that sooner or later you'll have to face it, SL.

I'm really really sorry. I will gladly hold either an arm or a leg, in case you would rather have a unimpeded shot at the jewels.

In Maryland, the courts do not like to interfere in the personal lives of the offending parties either. I may attempt to seek sole legal and physical custody of my DS. Right now, we have shared legal custody and I have physical custody with WH having visitation.

I know that he does not want to find his own place. He would much prefer to go the easy route and stay with his soulmate. I feel a responsibility to my son to point out to his father that he is not THINKING about his SON in all of this, rather WH is only considering the effects of all of this on himself. If I can stall him from harming our son, I will do it.

Kids don't have a choice in these matters, but they are asked to grin and bear it; that's just awful. I remember dealing with my mother's new marriages and R's. Again, it was like WE didn't exist, like OUR lives were secondary to the cause of my mom not having to struggle anymore. I have always felt for her, being a single mom, just trying to survive between pay checks, but marrying someone so as to not have to do that anymore isn't a better alternative.

I think as a mom, you do what is best for your son...no wiggle room. We have stats on our side...there is no "good" reason for a father or a mother to subject their child to this sitch. We cannot control that we are in this sitch, but we can control some of how it plays out.

I am sticking to my guns...you do the same.

In the end, we are truly protecting our kids and our H's from hurting their relationship with their kids..

It's a no brainer!!

You are a great MOM...that is why you are doing this with such strength.

You know if the shoe were on the other foot, they would have the same argument.

Don't get me wrong. You guys are doing what I wish I could do. I just don't think it would end well for me.

Hi SL,

I saw on CJ’s Killer Bee thread you are having a “not as good as the best that can be expected kind of day by people who have been betrayed, stabbed, spit on and mocked by their spouse” kind of day. Since that thread is pretty much the ladies room I thought I would touch base here.

Looks like a lot of the Bees have some sadness in their posts today. It’s probably just a rest stop on the trail. But it’s time to get up and start moving forward again.

I have been vividly dreaming a lot these past few days about W too. Not Wayzilla but W either pre A or in some fanciful post A way. It is strange but I do not hold much stock in dreams.

Like we said on the earlier post, they are lost at sea, MIA, on the missing person’s report, with little chance of returning from the dead. Time to move on.

Stay strong Wonder Woman, you have been doing a great job for you and your DS.

Yeah, the dreams I don't take much stock in, but they leave a lingering sense of loss. It's really just been this week, since Friday. I think I'm just having a reaction to dealing with the reality of my WH's mentality about his son. He pisses me off, thinking that his son's time is for WH and not the other way around.

I have heard him say on a number of occassions that 'HIS' time with his son, blah blah blah. Not 'SONS' time with him. There is a big difference. As if my son is the one who needs to entertain his father.

I also had to ask WH to call his son on a regular basis again, instead of telling son that he can call him anytime he wants to; problem with that is daddy doesn't always answer the phone--AGAIN, putting the responsiblity of communication on our 4 YEAR OLD SON.

On one hand I'm very angry with WH, which is a waste of energy, and on the other, I'm so hurt for my son that it is affecting me adversely.

The sun is shining, it's a beautiful day, and I am happy. I just wanted so much more for myself and my kids, more than what I had, and now it all seems like history repeating itself, with one shining difference, my DS doesn't have to deal with his mommy being poor and marrying to stay afloat...

I typically don't remember my dreams, but last night wasn't easy, and I dreamed about WW and OM. I was in her apartment to see the kids, and OM had his own room. I asked to use the bathroom and had to go through his room to get to it. The last thing I remember is trying to figure out which toothbrush was his so that I could spit on it.

I talked elsewhere about wanting to give. Some of the people I wish I could give [more] to are the Bees. Send you all flowers from my garden. Reach out for a quick hand squeeze. Provide someone in RL that gets it as much as the people here do.

"with one shining difference, my DS doesn't have to deal with his mommy being poor and marrying to stay afloat..."

Pretty huge difference!

Just let us know, the Batmobile is gassed and idling and the Batcave door is open (Spring garage cleaning)!

sdguy, we are lucky to be living in a time when forums like this exist and people like us go through this experience together. I do wish that I had more people to talk to who REALLY understand this process. Not just MB, but the grief and devastation. It's like a lush wooded area being stricken with wildfire, only to leave soot and brush behind. Luckily, those woods grow back, are reborn.

Chris, the money thingy really is a HUGE difference. I don't have to worry nearly as much as my mother did, and that is part of the reason I understand and forgive her for some of the things I was put through. She did the BEST she could, with the knowledge she had. She was truly a very loving woman. She loved her children so much. I, now, understand how she felt and why she was so tortured.

I remember waking up in the middle of the night to the sound of crying (I was about 12 at the time). It was my mother, she was on a suicide crisis hotline. She didn't have an easy life. She helped to make the strong person that I am today, and I am very proud of her. If she were alive today, we may not have seen eye to eye on the adultery stuff, as she committed adultery with my, now, step-dad. It would have been nice to have her shoulder to cry on, though.

One more thing, I read on hrdhddwoman's thread about how discouraged she is with her BH's MB viewing. I also read a response from someone, I think it was penalty kill (I'm unsure) stating that she believed real-life support was much more important to her than this place. I would love to have that kind of support, but I wanted all to know, who have helped me and are still listening today, you have been the BEST support that I have gotten, in terms of educating me about adultery and the devastation. I don't even know many IC's who have first hand experience with adultery and are willing to share it. So, thank you. I don't have many real life supporters, as most of my family are knee deep in their own crap, so I am grateful to you.

I saw the same post by penaltybox (the wayward, I think) and had the same thought. They don't know what they're talking about. I don't know ANYONE in RL who understands infidelity the way the people here do. My IC recently told me she went to a seminar on infidelity and that it was basically a waste of time--she said learned so much more from me. My MC was completely clueless.

This place is the best support group I could imagine. Thanks to all of you.

SL and SD,

I would also note that as a man this is great because it is anonymous.

I couldn't visit an MC/IC and talk about my issues like I could here. Log on and go. Help is on the way.

The other thing I think this does is it lets you know you are not alone.

I feel so bad right now there is someone I know who I think had an A and his M is in trouble. I don't want to say something because to be honest it is kinda embarassing for someone to know my FWW had an A. We look so happy and perfect.

So being here helps. If they had in person support that was better, great to each his own.

For me knowing others have been where I am is better.

It is no wonder we are all here so often...you cannot speak to this issue if you have not walked through it. Even just knowing there are listening ears is sooo helpful.

I am thankful to have a few people around me that have walked this road and can speak from experience...but I love coming here and just knowing that for where I am in this process, I am ok!

That is only because of you guys...otherwise I would question my sanity most days.

I do wish that there was a way to put a face to the names sometimes...but also I like the anonymity.

IHC

isn't this whole thing just awful?

dear son,
this is your mommy who is also my wife and this other person is my girlfriend

insanity!!!

i remember how confused i was about the whole thing. i was 6 when it happened to me.

i'm sorry for you and your son silent

eav, EXACTLY what I'm trying to avoid. My history was very similar, and the damage DID hit it's targets, namely, me and my sister and brother. As children, WE did not have a choice, WELL...as an adult I DO.

I especially appreciate you coming here and mentioning how NUTS it is for WH to expect me to give my son over like that.

Two weeks from now I'll be back on the mats.

I'll 'go to the mattresses' if I must! (Godfather reference)

Your history and your obvious intelligence is why everyone here has complete confidence in how great your future will be. Your son will be so proud of his mother and how she got him through this time.

Your actions and dedication speak volumes. You are in this limbo because you choose to be, because you know it gives you the best chance of creating the best environment for your son, namely your intact family as it was meant to be. A lesser person would have already given up.

I am proud to count you among my friends.

I'm feeling pretty up today, sort of inquistive about my future, but only peeking forward, not taking a long gander.

I really only plan week to week at this point. I plan on working on finishing up the tile work in my bathroom. We installed 12x12" tiles on the floor (heated--yummy) and in the shower stall, but didn't complete the job on the shower, so i have to get-er-done.

I hope that my son fares better than I did. I mean, I'm doing well now, but I've had to go through a process to forgive and learn and move on and let go.