Thanks frog, I'm learning so much about how to communicate with my DS.

My kid utterly amazes me! He is so strong, so in the moment, so aware and so real. What a beautiful thing to have the pleasure of watching every day. The kicker is this, I helped to mold him a bit, I helped to teach him manners and to be open with me. I don't take full credit, for he is his own tiny little man, but I am proud of the job I have done so far.

Just remember, if we don't help to fill in the blanks for them, they will do it themselves, and they will do it while in pain and sad. Childrens' imaginations are so strong.

Oh, BTW, my mother thought part of the reason her dad left home was because she was UGLY. What a horrible thing for a child to think.

It is a little tough knowing WHAT to say or even HOW to say it, but I know my kid. I actually feel better for having the conversation, and have had NO second thoughts about it. I reassured my DS, through this conversation, that I love him dearly and he is not wrong to be sad over what his daddy is doing, but his daddy is hurting HIMSELF the most, because we are still here, and he is not.

Rin, the girl that I had living with me moved out in December. She is actually my bosses daughter. She is still working on getting full custody of her son. The boys' father keeps skipping out on court dates and getting arrested and blah blah. What a bafoon. He is an addict (heroin, cocaine--shoots up, smokes). He was a bad choice that she made and then she didn't use protection while having sex, so WHAMMO, she became pregnant.

She has been a close friend for some time now (~6years). She is, however, 26 years old, and still a bit flakey about life. She is currently in a new R. The man she is with broke it off with her twice in the first two months that they were seeing eachother, because he was considering going back to his long-time girlfriend, which he has a DD with. Now, my GF takes her 1 year old son over to his house to sleep over. I have told her that I don't think this is wise, that she could harm her son, in the end, as this man has no commitment to her, and could leave without even thinking of her DS.

I wish she could live on her own, but she can't. Her value is all stored up in her REFLECTION in someone else's eyes, not in herself.

AH, see that's the pattern I was worried about falling into...

F asked me the other day when were thay going to get a SD...I told him that I had enough problems with one man that I didn't need another right now...let me deal with this first...

he was cool with that...

Thanks for the info!

There is never a NEED to involve your children in your love life, until there is a real commitment. I don't mean that you have to have a ring on your finger, but you must have spoken to this new person and told them about your kids and your boundaries involving them. If that new person can operate within those parameters, THEN they can meet the kids, and that's just meeting them.

I'm very guarded about this, because life doles out enough pain, without me being shortsighted and ALLOWING the bad to happen. Y'know? does that make sense?

I see what you are saying...and I agree...i have in my mind that when I'm ready and get to that point...well, sleep overs will be reserved for weekends without the kids...

I mean their little lifes have been tore apart and the last thing they need is men coming and going out of thier lives.

Exactly, Rin. We can have our adult, private lives. We're parents, we aren't dead! I mean, we deserve to find someone worthy to spend our time with too, but not to the childrens' expense.

I experienced so much of that as a child; being second to my mother's new H or boyfriend or LOVER. It was tough not being first. I didn't learn GOOD lessons from this, but I have grown to the point that I recognize a bad sitch when I see one, and have learned that no child should be an afterthought...

SL & Strivn,

DD19 continues to tease me everytime we are out now. Everytime she sees and attractive woman of the appropriate age she pokes my ribs and says, "How about her dad?" She has particular fun if they are 40 something and are trying to look 20 something. "Whoa Dad, she's perfect! Cheap and painted."

Opps, that's what Wayzilla's doing.

The best part of my mess is that I don't have young children. I do not envy you guys and am continually amazed at your strength.

LMAO...

SL,

You are welcome. I speak the truth.

I am glad you have that type of relationship with him.

Kids amaze me. My YS is so well adjusted, I don't get it sometimes with all the crap that has gone on.

OS is in IC right now from this mess.

YOu already know but I like to state the obvious. If things start going a little south it is OK to get help from an IC>

My son's seems wonderful.

The affair just keeps on giving.

I feel good about it though the teachers at his school were impressed with my attitude and my way of thinking and now so is the IC.

Nice to hear maybe what I have been saying to the FWW was right after all.

Frog, I am getting my son into IC and group counseling (if they form a group) at a place they deals with problems stemming from separation, divorce, and other life altering events.

I hope to set something up for him today. I had to do the insurance hokey pokey yesterday to find out how much the insurance would pay. Surprisingly, they will cover 50% (after I pay, of course).

DS seems to be doing much better than just a month ago, but that could be just getting used to things again; I'm sure his emotional stability is still tenuous. Unfortunately, I was relying on WH to check with his company to see if he could get help for DS, which set us back three weeks. I'm not BLAMING him, I'm just saying he isn't as proactive as I am about this. WH doesn't leave here and listen to DS talking about how much he loves his daddy and misses him and wishes that he would just come home.

Last night, my DS said that daddy belonged with us. WHOA! Out of the mouths of babes...

SL,

Geez you are way ahead of me. We have to do same with insurance right now.

I have to go out of pocket $500 then the insurance will pick up 70% I think. The IC was nice enough to knock it down to $100 per session.

I think now you have a greater reason to stay in Plan B though. The effect of your WH on your son.

Since the day I knew my FWW was pregnant I vowed to do right by my kids.

I feel as though now I have broken my vow. I think back to the fighting and I really cringe.

I feel so bad about it.

I think what bothers me is that everywhere we go to discuss OS problems they seem to agree with me. I don't know why my FWW can't get on board.

The IC saw OS and I last week and then in 2 weeks we go back again.

I am just getting really frustrated at this point. I know this stems from the A. I am so upset, I see my YS and he is the age my OS was when my FWW had her A and he is so happy and well adjusted. That is how OS was.

Well look at me throwing myself a pity party. LOL.

I know it will get better now that we have help.

Good luck with your son. I know with you as a parent he will do well.

Frog, the remorse that a FWS has to deal with is probably enormous, so admitting, on top of all of that that YOUR decisions caused so much pain in your child must be awful.

I know that I feel awful when I lose my temper and begin raising my voice, many times, I hear it building and I walk away, but there are times when I tell him what for!

You are still in the early throes of recovery, really, so still expect some bumps and set backs. You are not throwing a pity party, you are describing your efforts to help rebuild your family, and the frustration of it all. That's fine and dandy with me.

Great job talking with your son, SL. I refuse to sugar-coat it for my DS7 (i.e., lie to him). He knows who and what the OM is. I don't belabor it or bring it up because I expect that WW is trying to present OM in a positive light, and I don't want to put DS in the middle. The other day we had the "Just because mommy is doing something wrong that doesn't make her a bad person" conversation. A discussion of forgiveness is in our future.

I'm less sure on how to discuss with DD3 (almost 4). Sometimes she mentions that WW and I are angry with each other. I tell her that I'm more sad than angry. Once I told her that mommy is doing things that hurt me. I tell her that I still love WW and wish that she would come home. When she mentions OM, I tell her that I don't really want to talk about him; I'm not sure how far to go with that one.


Just one more thing that WS's are reality-impaired about. Hang in there, SL. You're doing great.

Sdguy, if your DD is asking you about OM, I find no harm in filling her in a bit, on her level, of course.

I noticed this

Sometimes she mentions that WW and I are angry with each other. I tell her that I'm more sad than angry. Once I told her that mommy is doing things that hurt me.

My point with DS, on this note, was that his daddy was hurting BOTH of us, not just me, with his actions. I wanted to give DS's pain a target, so that he can work on it, and also teach him, in some manner, that the things we do hurt more that the intended target sometimes. We must be careful with our decisions, and do our best to diminish collateral damage (in a way that he understood).

I hope that what I tell him is not hurting him, rather, helping him to focus on the REAL problem, and keep him from blaming himself.

SL,

Good advice.

I know that kids bond to parents. My FWW was a SAHM before the A so her bond with OS of course was tighter.

So when mom and dad were fighting, my son took mom's side. I wish now I would have sat him down and said dad isn't angry as much as he is hurt. Mom isn't treating daddy fairly and that hurts all of us.

I didn't and now I am paying for it. LOL. So SD go with what SL is saying it does effect all of you not just you.

It is this damage that angers the heck out of me.

I mean really how do you forgive that?

I know I am upset about it right now. But I am sure I will get over it. LOL.

The only way to get over the pain is to see your OS thrive again, and put this behind him and be able to put trust in his parents again. That's the key, that's all.

I am [email]d@mned[/email] lucky to have found this place, and get to bounce ideas on how to deal with this stuff. Before I found MB, my DS was having anger managment problems (stemming, most likely, from the A and not being developed enough to communicate his sadness). My son would hit his best friends and pick on the other kids, pushing them down, hitting them with sticks, saying mean things. Always crying and remorseful afterwards. It was miserable and I didn't know what to do.

Then, DS developed problems with sleep, he had nightmares and saw monsters (some of which is normal). He still sleeps with the light on, but he sleeps alone now, and he is not afraid of monsters.

I have kept him very scheduled. Bath time around the same time, bedtime around the same time, sometimes stories and songs, sometimes just talking and kisses and hugs. I know I'm not doing everything perfectly right, but I'm doing the best with my expertise and know how, as a mom.

My kid now has some hard knocks to deal with, and the sooner I am hip and with it, the faster he will learn how to cope. It's just such a shame that a child of his age has to deal with such a HUGE loss (shaking her head)...

SL:

You go, Girl!

As I stated on your earlier threard, Age 4 is the magic time for kids. If they had a permanent food supply, they could live independently....

And they are so curious...

Too bad WH is going to miss it.

LG

You're doing great SL. DS has a fighting chance b/c of the expertise of his mother. It's a crying damn shame that our kids have to experience this garbage. Thank GOD they have parents like us to help guide them through this mess.

Just returning some support.

Hey LG! Nice of you to drop by! Yeah, that kid sure can EAT! It's non stop sometimes.

BC, thanks, man. I really appreciate the kudos, it lets me know that I am making good, sound decisions when others are able to see it and respond to what I'm dealing with.

You know, SL, I couldn't agree with you more!! (Wait...let me try... um... Nope. Still can't agree more...<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />) When my exH first took off with OW, he left the state and no one knew where he was for a while, so at that time I told the kids that "dad was doing an install out of state." When we (his mom and I) found out where he was--living with OW and not coming back--I told the kids that dad had chosen to move out and live with another woman. They were 13yo and 10yo at the time. They had worries like "What's gonna happen to us? Do we have to move?" and I told them what I planned to do and how I planned to do it, I showed them our money so they understood about budgeting but also having fun, and I reassured them that *I* would never, ever just leave them. Thereafter, any time they had ANY questions, concerns, doubts, etc. I spoke to them HONESTLY but age-appropriately. I didn't bad-mouth their dad, but I did speak the truth.

Years later my DD (16yo at the time) spent a summer living with her dad (my exH) and would say to him, "Remember when this happened?" and "Remember when that happened?" and he would say, "No I don't remember that. I wasn't there." She came home to me--at 16yo when she was old enough ot understand it--and said, "Dad was gone for most of my life wasn't he? You remember EVERYTHING we did together because you were there! You raised us pretty much by yourself didn't you?" At the time, as she was a kid and experiencing it, she just assumed that everyone's dad was gone for months at a time and didn't go to baseball games and school plays. She was a kid--it didn't dawn on her that wasn't normal. Then, when she got older and was ready for it--that's when she figured it out.

SL--VERY good job!!

Your faithful friend,


CJ