SL:

Doesn't the site make it clear somewhere that we are amateurs and that you should follow the advice of the Harleys? How did they advice you regarding your situation? That's the COUNSEL that you should FOLLOW. We are here to provide SUPPORT and ENCOURAGEMENT. I have a problem with those on the forum who state their OPINIONS as FACT. I try to make it CLEAR that my posts are based ON MY OWN OPINION and EXPERIENCES..although some want me to stop talking about MY EXPERIENCES..MY EXPERIENCES are MY TRUTH..which you and others are FREE to USE...at NO CHARGE...TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT..on the other hand, as certainly they should, the HARLEYS actually CHARGE for their EXPERT ADVICE..IMO, STEVE HARLEY is a PURE GENIUS in regards to his UNDERSTANDING AND KNOWLEDGE about PEOPLE and RELATIONSHIPS...



I don't think it's WISE or PRUDENT to base your decisions on what PEOPLE ARE SAYING. You are the BEST JUDGE of what YOU NEED TO DO..over PEOPLE HERE..first the EXPERTS, then YOU, then the PEOPLE HERE...because the PEOPLE HERE do not know your SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES...which the HARLEYS can take into consideration...and PEOPLE HERE are biased by their own PERSONAL PERSPECTIVES AND STRUGGLES...the PROFESSIONALS have learned appropriate BOUNDARIES of not letting their PERSONAL LIVES INTRUDE upon their PROFESSIONAL COUNSELING with you.



I THINK THAT THIS IS A MAJOR, MAJOR MISTAKE and is PLAIN WRONG...again, mostly MY OPINION..The MEDICAL LITERATURE is filled with research showing the value of HOPE in helping folks recover from ILLNESS. I can't see why this does not apply to our situations. One good book is THE ANATOMY OF HOPE, written by a physician...as long as the HOPEFUL perspective does not keep a person STUCK from moving forward. That's why I say ACCEPT THE PRESENT, MAINTAIN HOPE FOR THE FUTURE...HOPE for what YOU want out of LIFE.




THIS SPEAKS TO WHO I AM AS A PERSON even before finding MBers. I think Rin said this and it is true. I'm a "BY THE BOOK KIND OF PERSON"..I do this with RECIPES and ASSEMBLY DIRECTIONS...Plus, I have OCD "TENDENCIES" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />...EVERYTHING IN ITS PLACE, DONE AT A CERTAIN TIME...you look at movies, my sons say that I'm like J Lo in "THE WEDDING PLANNER"....thankfully, my H is like this too...

Plus, I have been very religious since CHILDHOOD..so there....

Plus, everytime I tried to deal with the infidelity..MY WAY..rather than the MB way is when I goofed...so I became SOLD OUT on THE PLANS and still AM..when I became SOLD OUT I STUCK to them as closely as possible.. it worked FOR ME...

I know and respect that others don't think like me but this is what I believe. Even my RECIPES turn out better when I follow them to a TEE..this works IN MY LIFE...and I keep being REINFORCED for being this way by the POSITIVE OUTCOMES...

WHEN I BELIEVE AND TRUST IN THE LORD, I RECEIVE BLESSINGS..on HIS TIME..NOT MY TIME..and I have to BE OPEN TO HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT IS SAYING TO ME...

Enough of my testimony....

And lastly, LM and I have a history of seeing things TOTALLY DIFFERENT so rather than starting that discussion again with him..I thought I would speak directly to you...

Well, Mimi,

Well said. I counseled with Jennifer ONCE, and was told that my sitch is salvageable, and could work, but it was around the time of false recovery. I had forwarded her a copy of the letter that my WH sent me, and she said his words seemed fairly realistic.

Anyway, the truth is I think I just hit a bump in my road, and I have to give it the appropriate time to right itself. I'm FEELING a lot right now, and feel that I need some time. Feelings solve nothing, as they flow in and out. Solutions are what I'm working for.

I have goofed up in my own way, and am trying to forgive myself for that, as with every pain that my child expresses I know that my allowing my WH to come back into this home and invade our lives was partly my fault, and now my son suffers more because of my mistakes. I know that I am not to blame for my WH's A, but I am responsible for that little boy's well-being. I think WH coming and going and coming and going is confusing my son, as well as me for that matter.

I prefer direction and recipes, too, Mimi. Every now and then I change something, just to make it mine.

i agree with the things that silent is saying

FEW people here really believe that plan B is about saving you marriage

THAT'S what SAA says plan B is for

when you go to plan B with saving your marraige as your goal instead of using it to allow you to move on in case your marriage isn't saved........VERY FEW people here support you

people keep saying that i'm not going to save my marraige if i don't do plan B the right way and that i'm not doing plan B the right way because i'm not "moving on"

i am doing exactly what SAA and Jennifer harley say that i should be doing

and yet the people here who think they are experts don't support me

SAA says that going into plan B will PRESERVE your LOVE FOR YOUR HUSBAND and yet, for those of us who's love is preserved enough that we still want to save our marraige, people here crush our hope into dust

yes, because of plan B, you may be ready to move on WHEN YOU FEEL THAT YOU'VE WAITED LONG ENOUGH.....with no NEW love bank deposits from your wayward spouse

your LOVEBANK may still become empty no matter how much you try to preserve it

BUT we should be supported here until WE beleive that our lovebanks are empty and we feel we have waited and hoped long enough for US

that's what i believe a SUPPORT SITE should be for anyway

i have told jennifer...that i don't think there's much hope left for my marraige

THAT'S when she got firm and sounds angry when she said....."too many people give up too soon. i believe you should wait at least another year if you feel you are able to..... Most affairs do end before 2 years but many last longer.....i REFUSE to believe that your husband is happy in this relationship and i DON'T believe it's going to last."

and then i come here and people DON'T agree with her or support what she said (isn't that what this site is for?)

and when i request a session with her because PEOPLE HERE make me feel like i need to give up hope.....

JENNIFER TELLS ME NOT TO GIVE UP she says the people here are not experts and are only feeling their way along just as i am...that they are NO MORE an expert than I am

they are just people telling you what they believe based upon thier experiences and reading here....

in fact, she said that maybe coming to the site isn't a good idea if i'm not finding support here

many of the self-appointed and referred to by others "experts" here are NOT advising others what the HARLEY'S WOULD ADVISE

and i find that those same people are supportive during plan A, during exposure and at the beginning of plan B because that is when THEY believe you have the best chance of recovering your marraige

after that.....well they seem to desert those of us in plan B for the long haul

they tell us to move on and realize our marraige most likely won't be saved....that the affair has gone on too long and the relationship has "cemented" or something similar

well.....Jennifer says that when affairs go on for some time, those people are still RENTERS unless they are married

and they are renters who gave up alot to be with the other person

she believes that the fantasy period where they "give, give, give" to each other WILL WEAR OFF and the reality of everyday will cause their TAKERS to start making demands instead of making SACRIFCIES

and LOVEBUSTING WILL OCCUR

so here's my problem

i pay big money for really good advice and then i come here for the free "support" this site is supposed to offer

and mostly what i get here is people telling me that everything Jennifer told me is wrong

that it's been TOO LONG, that my husband isn't going to return and that i am HANGING ON

anyone who agrees with jennifer is told they are giving me FALSE HOPE

and then i get upset and call Jennifer again....pay big money again...and she tells me that she STILL believes everything she has already told me and that i really need to just give it time and wait it out

so i don't come here as much as i used to

i don't post as often as i used to

and i don't keep myself from telling people they don't know what they are talking about like i used to

and i really question why this site isn't doing what it should for those of us who are dealing with this for the longest amount of time

mimi

i can honestly say that your understanding of the concepts of plan A and plan B go along with SAA and Jennifer Harley

eav,

You have reinforced that, when I have the funds, I am going to call Jennifer to get her perspective.

Barring any major financial changes and such, I believe that my H is in there and WANTS to come out, and is struggling, and I will wait it out. I DO believe this. I just don't know how long that will take HIM to believe.

eav, I undestand not coming here as often. I feel a comradery with many here currently, and I mostly post to them, trying to reinforce PlanB and what it is REALLY for. I try to get people to get quiet, get dark. I have taken my own advice and done that.

I, like you, have begun living my life alone. Making plans for me and doing things for me. Reading books and relaxing when I can. Helping others when I can. I do a lot of yard work. I really love to see the flowers grow and happy because I have given the attention, pulled the weeds away and given them breathing room. Mowing the lawn when it is lush, like it is now; the grass is almost irridescent. It's quite lovely when the garden and yard are spruced up.

I also have been connecting with my friends more regularly. I don't have many, but those I do have I love dearly.

Thank you eav, and mimi, for helping to clarify things and get me thinking. I think we all fall off that horse, and just need that nudge to get back up and begin again.

silent,

I think when people on here suggest that you "let him go" and "move on" that it could be two things at play: first, maybe they are sort of newer MB'ers and to a newbie they might wonder why you don't just "kick him to the curb" and second, maybe it's a person who thinks it seems unhealthy for you to pine for someone who "has clearly moved on without you."

My exH began his last/major A on Feb. 3, 1999 and we did not D until May 23, 2003 (I filed in Feb. 2003). That's <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> FOUR YEARS for those who can't do math!! So, yep, I waited and tried for FOUR YEARS before I was ready to file and move on. So there is not one thing that says you can't be the BS in Plan B for YEARS...as long as you are legally and financially protected, you can wait as long as you want!

Between you and I and the fencepost, I personally suggest that you take all advice here on MB with a grain of salt. What I did, though, was to recognize that there were certain people who really KNEW me and understood where I was coming from--and those people I called my "Wise Council." At first, I asked everyone for advise here first...then made my decision. Then, I began to use just my Wise Council for advice, and if they all agreed, that was my decision. Then I got into the habit of making my own mind up and "checking" here with my Wise Council. I figured if my Wise Council was in agreement with my own decision, then it was a wise decision! Finally, only came to Wise Council when I felt like I was off track and couldn't see the solution myself.

Sooooo...I suggest that you do what you want to do, and what you are ready to do. And no--I don't mean be selfish--I mean, if you want to wait for a while and you are wisely protected, then wait until you want to stop waiting. It is my opinion that where there is life, there is hope. At any moment, your WH could "wake up" out of the fog and wonder what in the world he has done. At any moment, your WH could realize that he needs to win you back and he could be willing to do the work for a year without getting ANYTHING in return in order to correct his mistakes. Where there is life, there is hope.

Here's what happened for me--just so you know what it MIGHT be like for you. As I mentioned, my exH and I tried to reconcile six times and separated seven times. He continued his A with the OW from 1999/2000--he had other cyber A's--and I was an abuse survivor so I had to learn how to love myself instead of turning to him for love. But the last time we separated, I was in a good, silent, dark Plan B and the kids and I were doing well personally...when it sort of "dawned" on me that our M had been dead for a long time and that my exH had no reason--no motivation--to ever file for D. Even though our M was dead and we had been living apart for quite a while, if he filed for D, it would mean court-ordered CS through CSE and as long as he didn't file, he could stay "in control" of money and through that "in control" of me. Plus, he thought that I'd never really do it, and if he ever ran out of GF's all he had to do was make some promises and I'd take him back! He had no reason to ever D and he would NEVER file! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Shortly after that, he called me screaming at 6am (over something that he had no business to even be involved in with me) and he threatened "You know I can get into that house any time I want, and if you keep this up all I have to do is get in and get the kids, and you'll never even know they're gone and you'll never see them again."

That was it. I was ready.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

actually

i'm trying NOT to contact Jennifer for a session unless there is a MAJOR change in MY HUSBANDS actions or feelings

i've realized it's foolish to spend $185 getting the same reassurance from Jennifer that she gave me each and every time i've called

SHE believes.....i need to also

nothing's any different

nothing new to advise

is there anything different for you?

CJ,

I am financially covered for two years with alimony and CS, so I got that wrapped up, oh, and exclusive use of the home. I don't think I will have any problems there. I'm set.

My WH has NEVER even raised his voice to me, not really even in the thick of things. No threats, NADA. I have had some thoughts of protecting myself, as he sinks closer to bottom, as you never know how people will react to facing their fears.

Nope, I'm set financially for a while, and my emotions are on a roller coaster right now, but will settle and then I will be fine. I'm clear on my objective. I wouldn't do Plan B if I didn't want my family intact and my H home. I would go to Plan D. I need to give this some time for ME, so that I can be almost positive that I waited as long as I could, without sacrificing too much too long.

My son is home, and he helps to center me, just by being here. He misses his daddy so, and if I can hang on for me and when that gets weak, hang on for him, I will.

You and believer both said similar things, that you will know when you are done. I KNEW when I wanted Plan B, and I knew that crumbs were not for me, only to be wanted, respected is for me. I will know when it is time.

eav,

Just the events that occurred since my WH left the home. The emails, his starting counseling, my DS starting counseling.

do you think Jennifer would say anything that would be any different?

you see, i've spend alot of money to hear the same things from her over and over to make me feel better because i couldn't hear those words here

you know, eav, I don't think she could tell me anything that you haven't. I think it would just be me calling to get reassurance that PlanB itself can work, and, truthfully, we've all heard the stories of these plans working, especially when the people that it has worked for are posting here daily. So, viewing this entire conversation, I would say that I don't need to spend the money right now. I'll save it.

After all, I have counseling to cover for my son now, so it wouldn't be prudent to call the Harleys' so that they can tell me what you just did...and, really nothing has changed. WH is still riding them fences.

i'm not trying to talk you out of it silent

it helped me to get jennifer's reassurance every time because i NEEDED to get it from somewhere

i'm just saying that it's alot of money to spend so be sure of what you're looking for

many of my sessions with her have just been paying here to repeat what she's already said to me so that i could continue to have hope

but.....the good feelings from the session never last long once i get back to this site

because i'm NOT listening to the few people who ARE supporting my plan B and my hope of recovering my marraige and the belief that it's still possible

instead, i keep looking for MORE people to say the same things or people to change their thinking and agree that there is hope

you know what though.....hearing the expert herself tell me there is hope got me through some tough times

i guess i'm just frustrated and saddened that there isn't more support here for people like us

eav, that seems to be what we our theme is this weekend; finding the support. It's rough, but I agree that there are so many that are dealing with the freshness of finding out about the A, and just trying to fight.

We have all been in that place, and, for the most part, ARE living semi-normal lives again, albeit minus our spouse.

eav, I miss my H. I miss his smile, his touch, his hugs and passionate kisses. He was a good man, as I was/am a good woman. No matter what I've done to negate our past, all the good memories still exist there, as they do with your WH. YOu are a huge part of his life, still.

I think those of us with kids have a NEED to communicate at a regular rate, through intermediaries and lawyers and such, and don't really think on those members here who don't have to, get to deal with their WS on the regular. If it weren't for the kids, we would all be feeling the silence, and I know it can be deafening...

Silent:
I'm off to bed now, but I just wanted to say...you are such an inspiration.

You are the Queen Bee, I think...and I know we kind of joke about the Bee thing, but you are leading the charge, the team manager, drill sergeant...head cheerleader...whatever.

Your wisdom and sensitivity and compassion come through in every single post you make to me and everyone else here.

Thank you so very much for sharing that with me.

((((silent and DS)))

Nightie night you bee's you. I'm off to dreamland too, cross your fingers that they are all good...

I really hate to see you beat yourself up for this. He said all the right things and was sincere about it. It sounds to me that he knows what the right thing to do is and actually wants to do it, but once he got into it he found out he had underestimated how hard it would be. When he first said those things, he meant them, so of course you let him back in. How could you not? When you found out he couldn't do it, you kicked him out again. Unfortunate, sure, but not something to beat yourself up over. What if that had been the one chance for him, and you had refused to let him try, and then he REALLY walked away. How would your son feel abou that?

I think I agree that you are likely to get reassurance from another session with Jennifer. Sometimes it's worth the money, but I think I would try to hold out until WH makes some kind of move.

I'm with you guys on the discussion about Plan B on this site. All I've ever heard from Jennifer is that Plan B is about saving your marriage. I can't think that she would be crazy about the concept of Plan B helping one get ready to move on. The detachment, clear thinking, and self-confidence that come alon with Plan B are perhaps a useful side effect. But Plan B is about saving the marriage. At least, that's my understanding.

WOW..I was nodding in agreement to everything you said in this post and then you said MY NAME..

The reason I know the stuff so well is cause I have SAA practically MEMORIZED..

Almost each line is highlighted and I read it religiously every day....


It's called SURVIVING and affair..which is what I was STRUGGLING to do...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Imagine this..out clothes shopping tonignt with my H and the saleswoman says.."You don't want to make him too handsome do you; he might find him another woman" My response: "I'm WAY PAST that place in my life"...I don't know what that was supposed to mean... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

All I can say about that sales clerk is 'STOOPID WOMAN'. She needs more training.

Mimi, when I read eavs post, my head was a noddin'. I don't think she realizes how much SHE contributes to this site.

sdguy, I'm gonna wait on contacting Jennifer, I think you and eav have both reinforced what I truly already know. I'm not going to beat myself up anymore. [email]D@mnit![/email] That letter was very sincere. I think you are right, my WH had no idea what he was getting himself into, and as he himself said, "I am weak". He is. I thin he needs to hit some bottom to become stronger. Sounds counterintuitive, but so is most of MB concepts, and they work.

SL,

I got drug tested today. Guess who I thought about while peeing in the cup. I'm thinking, here's your protein sample. This stuff's gonna cure cancer or something. They're gonna love it down in the cold room. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

just a little something to make you feel uncomfortable for the rest of the day <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


on another note. I fully support your Plan B. Give em HE11!!

SL,

Not a threadjack I hope. LOL

First here is the definition of the word Plan:

1. a scheme or method of acting, doing, proceeding, making, etc., developed in advance: battle plans.
2. a design or scheme of arrangement: an elaborate plan for seating guests.
3. a specific project or definite purpose: plans for the future.

All of them talk about the future really. IMVHO plan A and plan B are in place to try to save an M. There are side effects like feeling better and being prepared to do without the WS if they chose not to come back.

I also see that Jennifer of course urges you to stay until the 2 year period or mabye longer.

What I see really missing here and I know the time frames but a lot don't.

So someone says I been plan "A"ing my tail off for 2 months and nothing. OH Really well give it six and come back.

I am in Plan B now "great be ready for 2 years". It is there to save the love you have.

The other thing I think is that depending on the two individuals some can wait 2 years others can wait 2 months.

It depends on the M. I really don't believe in my sitch I could wait 2 years. Heck I know I couldn't for legal reasons.

Again tehse are all just plan's. Plan's go wrong. Especially when the plan involves someone else that doesn't know or care about your Plan.

On some it works and on others it doesn't.

I think coming here for support is great. I think SL is doing great on SL's plan.

I don't think anyone should wait around indefinately. That is a long time.

If you can wait 5 years that is great. If sl can wait 5 dayst that is great too.

I hope that made sense.

giving a bumpity bump to my thread

Working on some issues of my own. Dealing with some triggers and am working on discussing more boundaries.

We are going to pick up PWC's things from his apartment this afternoon. The move in will be completed this weekend. I find myself feeling a little nervous. I think it's the finality of PWC moving his stuff back in, moving in completely. We did this before, but neither of us were prepared for ways to deal with eachother, as well as protection (mostly on his part).

I plan on having some candid conversations about protection. We have already begun these, but I prefer the snails pace. Learn a bit more, take some time to implement things, move on to the next thing; that way we don't become overwhelmed with what amounts to a massive amount of work. I don't think multitasking recovery is the best tack. Slow and steady.

We have been getting along really well. I found myself thinking about ways for us to keep an eye on eachother. Cell phones, emails, bank accounts, online stuff--there are so many ways to slip through the cracks--and that means me, too! I'm still wary of what happens while he is at work, as the last time that PWC and I attempted recovery (albeit false) Aimless would have lunch with him and be weepy and say things like "I know that we're not supposed to do this, but..."

She knows where he works, knows his work phone number and email (which cannot be changed). This is a very important time and I'm fully aware of how easily PWC could fall back, or atleast break NC. I can't be sure that he won't answer the phone if she called, feeling all responsible for her pain and everything (we all know she had choices, and made the wrong ones). Probably thinking he's doing a good thing by consoling her, then WHAMMO, back into the A.

That's, again, just my brain working with MB and what could happen. I can tell you, one boundary that I have now is that I will not continue a marriage with an WS. We've come too far, and I've worked too hard to ever deal with this again. My heart will ache, and my son will suffer, but I cannot do this again.