I suspect that PWC is having his own personal struggles. I truly do understand this, and that he is only beginning withdrawal, not necessarily just from OW, but from the lifestyle, too. It's a big difference coming from the 'single' life back into M and family.

I am not pushing him by any means, but I need him to focus on the M, too. LEt me know what his top EN's are so that I can meet them, and help to keep him focused on the prize, a loving, happy M.

I agree, it has only been one month, and I'm NOT filled with ANY expectations, as I said. I'm living this and learning this, but I sensed the PWC needs an outlet and is having a hard time with that, so I thought talking about something like EN's questionnaire may help him to begin to talk out loud about what's inside.

I'm seeking others' experiences so that I can guage what steps *I* can take to help PWC. I'm concerned that I will lead us astray with lack of action. Again, I'm going with my gut, which tells me that PWC needs to say some things in a safe place. I think talking about what we have written will help him to feel safe, especially if I do not REACT with anger or sadness. I really am interested in what he needs, beyond a sexual nature. I am pretty sure that SF is at the top of the list, but am wondering how he ranks his ohter needs and if something that isn't on the list is something that he has as a need.

Thanks all for chiming in; I am happy to know that you guys are there when I need to be realigned. I look forward to seeing the 'REAL' PWC again, 'cause he was great. I hope I can also unvail the REAL Silent. I can hear the walls crashing down (my walls). This is my first experience at really seeing the fog begin to dissipate, so this is new for me. Even in our long false recovery, the fog was ever present the ENTIRE time, this time, it's different, even just the way he looks at me. He knows NOW that his eyes are very telling.

A good question might be, besides learning about EN's and filling them, what do I do over the next 6 months to a year to help the situation? Just keep up with maintenance of the needs he will make me aware of? I suppose that it is a really important part of recovery, and that is why I am asking PWC if we can start there. I need to reread HNHN and SAA, which doesn't really take that long.

I plan on getting an exercise schedule together for myself and working toward a change in eating habits (the last two years have taken a big tole). I plan on building up my muscles a bit, to help avoid the back going out sitch and getting back to dancing and hitting my heavy bag (great stress reliever). I plan on working on my personal recovery more and more. I want to get back, physically and mentally, to a healthier state. I know I will feel better if I take care of myself.

I was thinking of telling you what you already posted.

I FOCUSED EVEN MORESO ON MY OWN PERSONAL RECOVERY..making myself more of an EXAMPLE for him rather than TEACHING HIM or PROBING him..I set the TONE of the HOUSE...being the best PARTNER I could be to a HURTING HUSBAND...

And he FELL IN LOVE WITH ME..that was MY GOAL..he wasn't IN LOVE with me AT FIRST..but he has become CRAZY about ME...I WORK ON THIS DAILY..STILL DO...

I read lots of lots of books during that time..lots of stuff about MANHOOD..whatever seemed pertinent...

wrote lots in my journal..

had lots of LIGHTBULB MOMENTS about myself right here on the FORUM...

I'm not one of those who ASKED my H what his primary ENs are...I learned so much more by figuring that out for myself...

It's OBVIOUS though...

I recommend THE PROPER CARE AND FEEDING OF HUSBANDS by DR. LAURA....great start....

You know, it's funny, I was thinking the same thing, I mean, figuring his EN's out as we go. I really do want to be the best me possible, and not just for PWC, but for myself; I've let a lot of my personal happiness go, and that serves no purpose, and stunts only ME. I don't mean selfish pursuits, but things that help to build upon my character. Opening myself back up.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I've heard this book is great! I'll look into getting it on CD; I enjoy 'reading' while I'm driving. It's my own little space and it's uninterrupted time to listen. Usually, I'm pumping the music, but I do enjoy a good book now and then.

And like I was posting to DIG this morning...

Of course, I believe in the MBer's Philosophy..

But, in regards to my husband's ENs, it really just boiled down to the BASICS of taking good care of HIM like a WIFE should..like Dr. Laura talks about in her book...



Exactly, SL..this part of this journey has been wonderful for me. I have turned my WHOLE LIFE around, doing things PERSONALLY that I never would have done before. Let him alone for awhile and GO ON A PERSONAL ADVENTURE and that will LURE him towards YOU..you will be LEARNING AND GROWING and he will be ATTRACTED to that...

Oh, Mimi, Thanks bunches!

I really do believe that his intial attraction to me was my sense of self, my independent nature, while still being present and available. I want that back. I'm pretty tired of saying NO (having a little kid can keep you in that place). I want to say YES, for me and for my family.

I do want my husband to be happy; I'm almost positive that he will come around to giving again; he used to be pretty good at it. He was so affectionate and we would play fight in bed and just nuzzle and kid, and he would make me smile and laugh, throw your head back laugh, snortle laugh, and that was really not all that long ago.

WE are both so changed by this leg of our journey, and are probably both a little road weary. I do feel for him, in his quest to rejoin our family. I'm sure it is tough; again, like he's an alien in his own life. YUCK!

Leaving him be is probably the best advice I could receive. I will continue to learn about him, to listen, to touch and to show love. His actions are his to do with and own.

I'm excited about beginning a new exercise program; gonna work toward running a 5K and doing weight training (gotta take care of my muscles so my bones don't give out). I loathe running, but cardio is good for the soul. I'm going to work on my domestic capacity, too. Get back to cooking and baking; I've fallen waaaaay off that wagon.

Hmmm, I guess it is like Plan A, except the pressure to end the A is no longer there. Plan R is good.

Thanks for the reminders Mimi. I hope others are reading along and can see what questions arise. THis place is amazing.

I just finished watching a movie called "The Guys" on Starz, about a firehouse captain post 9/11, after 8 of his men perished, and his need to eulogize them. He found a writer to help him with the eulogies. He had traded shifts with one of his Lieutenants for that Tuesday morning, and was asking the writer what the reason was for him not being there that day, for not perishing that day.

The writer responded 'None'. There were no reasons.

She was also writing her own prose on the subject and remembered people asking when things would be 'normal' again. The answer that she came up with was things will be normal again, just a NEW normal.

I began to cry. This is what we all deal with, to some extent. Learning to live the new normal, whatever that may be, be it Dday, false recoveries, plan A, plan B, or DIVORCE, it's all a new normal.

Recovery, for me, is a new normal, because I have never looked so much at myself and my actions and lack thereof in my life. I'm changed, PWC is changed, my son is changed and we cannot fit back into the neat tidy box of normal; we must adapt to the new normal.

That's life, isn't it, SL?

New normals.

The first few days--heck! months!!--after DS11 was born. I went from being just me to being a MOM. Childbirth was just as life-altering for me as it was for that baby.

New normals that occur every time a relationships begins...or ends. Whenever someone we care for dies or becomes chronically ill or moves away. Whenever someone gets married. Whenever we move, change schools, start a new job, begin a new tradition.

Some "normals" are less extraordinary than others...or are a "step up" from the previous normal, and thus are more easy to adapt to.

It's the uncomfortable new normals...it's like getting used to a new pair of shoes that don't fit well. You might start out with a blister at first, but eventually, a callous will form. You don't want the callous, and the shoes still rub you wrong, but at least you aren't bleeding all over the place.

The hope, I guess, is that eventually you can throw away the darn uncomfortable shoes...and go barefoot, wiggling your toes in the lush green grass, or in the sand at the beach.

That would be the NEXT new normal. See, the good thing about "new normals" is that it leaves the door open for a better one to come around.

(((silent)))

SL,

Wow very well articualted. There are times that something like that comes a long and I go aha it makes sense.

Not always dealing with A's either where the words just finally fall into place.

A new normal.

Maybe that's why M's stick after an A sometimes: The new normal is really better then the old normal. To bad it took an A to change the normal.

NOrmally I think I am much clearer about being normal but I am getting confused by my self.

Weird how life does that. I was talking to my mom the other day and she asked how I was. I was really choked up by her surgery, the FWW's thing now more stuff, problems with OS behavior, work practice whatever I have just been swamped. LOL. My mom asked me how I was and I said fine, she said Frog you have a lot on your plate "how are you?" I said fine.

Funny thing. I really am fine. I don't know pre A if that would have been the case.

With MC, IC, MB and everythign else my new normal seems OK. Nothing spectacular, no fireworks, nothing to mark an end and a new beginning.

The thing is though is things are better.

The one thing that I think never leaves my mind though is this is the normal we had before and it wasn't good enough. I think it keeps me more aware.

I agree. You have a better sense of awareness, of being present in your life, not letting things go on.

I'm super hyper aware right now, maybe a bit itchy, and am calming down. I am filling out the EN's questionnaire, mostly so I can understand my OWN needs, and maybe understand what PWC's MAY be.

Some moments he is there, he is smiling, kisses me, still no hugs, but he is present. Some moments, he is tense, sitting away from me. Laughs with DS, and plays with him, but I'm on the outskirts of that, still a fractured family, a fractured fairy tale, that never really existed.

I can see why recovery takes so long. You can't possibly stand talking of the R day in and day out. I carry many war wounds, and cannot begin describing them all at one time. I don't think PWC would be able to withstand the pain this may cause HIM. It's a lot. Much more than I knew while in Plan B. It's easy to not think about the wounds that were inflicted directly by WH, when he is not around to prod them with the pitchfork. However, when they come home and commit to the M, those wounds are noticeable again, infected, oozing. To show someone all of that at one time could be unbearable and cause much further problems.

Anyhoo, I am much more aware, and am still learning to self soothe and let go of the notion of control. That notion comes back, in the early recovery; like you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I dropped the reigns this week.

He is available for you to MEET all of his NEEDS as YOU CAN.

That actually made me FEEL BETTER...because it was ACTIONS that I could take..I could DO SOMETHING...to relieve my ANXIETY...

Continue to BE THE BEST WIFE THAT YOU CAN BE..as in PLAN A...that will help you in your own PERSONAL RECOVERY....

When I was feeling anxious for example, I would reach over and hug him or rub him or just simply TOUCH HIM...I would go to the grocery store and get the ingredients for one of his FAVORITE MEALS...I would try to SURPRISE him with a CERTAIN OUTFIT...HE IS THERE..Lure him..CAPTIVATE HIM with your WIFELY CHARMS...HE had chosen YOU..HE IS YOUR MAN!!!

SL,

Open indeed. Long story short we had OS in IC. IC says problems maybe a syptom of our M problems. He wants to talk to us.

I mention to IC this is a hard time since this is when FWW had her A.

She says in a not so nice tone, "it has been 4 years" is he ever going to get over it.

IC who is now MC says "When I started MC the accepted time frame was about a year for someone to "get over it", now it is generally accepted about 5 years."

He stressed that is only if the FWS does some heavy lifting.

Funny thing though he pointed out to her that she seems to be the one sending wrong signals.

Anyway realize this is a long term thing. I look back over months now instead of minutes, hours and days.

It is getting better.

Don't be hard on yourself. Also the hypersensitivity could do a little damage.

He may have gas so he is making weird faces and he also doesn't want to offend you sense of smell so he doesn't want you in his general vacinity.

You may think his faces means he is upset with you and he doesn't want to be around you which proves it.

Mimi, I am definitely hearing you AND taking your advice. I do things because I want or need to. I hug him, touch him, kiss him. I'm staying away from the ILY's right now. We say it now and then; mostly I'm being complementary, showing how I appreciate him. I was so angry before the A's that I wasn't very grateful for the things he did, I was only looking at what he DIDN'T do, and that was soooo wrong.

I recognize what he is doing. For instance, he sent me an email today explaining that he was just tired yesterday after being at the racetrack Saturday, so he apologized for just falling to sleep early last night. To me, I KNEW he was tired, and thought he may want to hit the hay earlier than usual, so it didn't bother me. It was nice for him to recognize that I could have taken it as a slight. I did not. It's just the thought that counts, really.

Obviously, communication is key. Just saying what you are grateful for, instead of ASSUMING the other person KNOWS already, without you saying a word, is paramount. I get this now. I think I say "Thank you" for the smallest things now, like taking the garbage out, going to get groceries, cooking dinner, letting me sleep for a few more minutes. All the little things were what was killing me before. I felt like I was doing everything.

Truth was, he was helping in his own way, and I didn't recognize it. Now, that doesn't mean that he was perfect, flawless in his approach with me, either. We were just not communicating, and when we did, neither of us REALLY listened to the other. Honestly, it was ridiculous behavior, that got us into a whole mess of trouble.

You are right Mimi, he's there, he's mine. I like that I can be possesive of him in some way. Not OBSESSIVE, but mark my territory, in a way that says, DON'T MESS WITH US. I want to be tight like that again, a true UNION. US. Not ONE, but US.

He'll come around SL. I like what you said about communication. It gets better, trust me.

My DH and I have a "thing" now that when one of us does something small for the other (like I'll make him tea without his asking) or he'll bring me a coke (without my asking), the receiving person will say "thank you" and the other will grin and say "it's the little things." That's a BIG thing that has changed in our marriage post-affair. We are "CARE"ful with each other and pay attention to even the little things.

This "little thing" came about as a result of a conversation we had about things that had gone wrong before. Both of us cared about the big things (paying the bills, raising the kids, etc.) but both of us were guilty about neglecting the little things.

P.S. How many times can you say "things" in a post? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you guys are so wonderful. I am so grateful that you support me, every single day, I thank god for you.

Frog, you always know what I'm saying, always get it.

Mimi, you have been there, done that, and have a positive way of expressing what you have been through and ways to get passed this part. I'm ever so grateful for you, as you have been there from the beginning of my posts, slappin me upside the head.

princessmeggy, you are steeped in being grounded. It's so wonderful that you took the time to post your whole mess, and now take the time to talk about the 'little things' in recovery that help spurn things along.

I know that PWC hears me and sees me now. He recognizes that I'm trying to change and become a better me, too. He's said so much. It really is the little things that can kill us and the little things that can save us...

Sl,

I think that may be a key to it. The saying what you think the other person already knows.

It is the consideration of the other person that is always the first to go.

You really are doing great. He is lucky to have you and your kid is really cute.

Frog,

It really is, isn't it. We start treating our spouses like posts, stumps, while we heave all of our crap onto them, we forget to soothe and care for them.

THe fact that we even begin to heave all of our crap on them is a sure sign that we are out of touch.

Ah, you must have seen the MB photo board. I figured it was time to give people a face. PWC has had a website for some time now, but hasn't updated it, so I'm not concerned about people seeing what we look like. I don't think y'all could track me down from just a photo. H3ll, knowing how I got info on Aimless, I'm pretty sure someone could find me if they really wanted to.

I thanked my husband for being my cell phone monitor. Whenever the low battery indicator starts to beep, he puts it on the recharger; he has been doing this for the entire month that he has been home. I thought it was very thoughtful. It really is nice. Heck, he could just be bothered by the bleeping noise, but he still is doing me a favor by plugging it in, so I emailed a thank you to him.

I sense a slight shift in PWC, toward being considerate, nice. He told me I looked nice this morning, and [email]d@mn[/email] near made my day! I forgot how it felt to just be nice to each other. Crazy, huh!

I'm so happy for you SL! You sound great! And what a wonderful reminder about appreciating the little things...because they aren't so little, are they?

Off to check the photo thread...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just a different normal. LOL

Even though I post here my job is pretty stressful, and demanding.

I tell my FWW that and I don't think she always gets it. Today she called and asked if she could stop by. I was like no way. Not in a mean way but in a busy way.

She said well you don't have to be mean. I wasn't being mean and I told her so.

I said I love you but my job is really hectic and busy.

So later she called asking if I had any fires today I said of course every day.

The thing is I don't bring it home so my family doesn't really know.

One day she asked about my day and I told her.

She said "Sorry you had such a bad day" I looked at her and said Bad day that was a good day.

Now she knows a little more about how my days go.

I think I am a happy go lucky kind of guy so they don't know.

But the communication is getting there. The appreciation is getting there.

Where before she had an expecation and a sense of entitlement she knows how good she has it.

The other day I was going over comissions she looked at mine and realized my commision this month is more then she makes in 3 months.

But I never ever say it is my money. It is ours. Now she knows this and sees it.

Just being aware. Knowing the other person is doing big and little.

I think talking about your job, your day, is a good thing, no matter how straining the day was, it joins you two together. It's part of your life, and she wants to share in that. I think that is great. I also think it's funny that something someone else would consider a bad day, is actually a fine day for you!

I guess we are all trying to get back to what is OURS, right?

Even without PWC, I was working toward OURS, in terms of my son and me, our family, such as it was.

I'm happy that PWC and I are working at it though. I know I'm going to learn so much more, and despite the pain, I do so love to peer into the guts of something, take it apart and learn about it. I'm that analytical sort. I'm trying to learn to just let things be what they are, and accept things, instead of trying to dissect it all.