Ah, the sweet days of recovery.

Well, I think I'm a bit stressed these days, as indicated by my body. I have unexplainable headaches, and some digestive 'issues' that are, too, the unexplained. I had a sonogram performed yesterday to check in the area where I've been having some regular pain. This was a slowly emerging pain, so I thought it wise to have it checked. Waiting to hear from my doctor about that. I'm not alarmed about it, really more curious, but I'm sure my mind is labored with the 'what could be's".

We did go out to see the Baltimore symphony orchestra perform this weekend. They screened "The Wizard of Oz" and played the accompanying original score. It was great! DS just loved it! It pleased PWC to find something that DS would love. I enjoyed it too. I have always like that movie. I was one of those kids plunked down in front of the TV every year to watch it, popcorn at the ready.

Anyway, not much new happening. I just wanted to let y'all know where I was. I have asked PWC to sit down with me on a regular basis and talk about the A's, answer some of my questions, as I will answer some of his. Sort of a question/answer session, so that we can move forward from ground zero.

Intersting thing, I find myself afraid to ask PWC questions, because I don't want HIM to be uncomfortable. How odd is that? I don't want to hurt HIM with my questions. I do tell myself, "Silent, let's be for real here, he had two affairs that you know of, about which you know not much. How will you get beyond this without asking the questions?"

If you read the above questions, you will see how easy it is to begin to adopt that wayward foggy line of reasoning. As in, not wanting to hurt HIM, when in reality, I have been completely stripped of my trust mechanism and must rebuild. It's easier, initially, to just ignore a wound, but when left unattended, without care or resolve, it festers and fills with puss (white blood cells going wild) and your body begins it's revolt. Hence the belly tied in knots. I need to hear some answers to move forward. PWC has agreed to this.

It seems that I am leading TEAM RECOVERY for now, and am beginning to understand that withdrawal isn't just from the source (OW) but from the frame of mind, the lifestyle and more.

Oh, I also hope that the question and answer/discussion sessions will open up the floor to discuss our wants and needs and hopes and dreams. I don't just want to sit him down and grill PWC, I want to open the floor to question me, also. I welcome the conversation, to be honest.


I realize now that love takes tending to, and right now, that tending feels like the intial sowing of a field. IT takes great effort to ready the soil, a lot of back breaking, sweaty work, but if you do a good job, your plants will thrive. We're still working on what amendments to add...

((((SL)))))

You just impress the he11 out of me. I have so much to say but work keeps getting in the way!

Hang in there, SL, you are doing SO well.

fox

Hey fox, when you have time, you can email. I wanted to talk to you anyway.

okie dokie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Let me clear some of this mess of my desk and I'll throw you a line.

Fox

SL,

Get what you need so you can move on.

In your garden analogy the past are old dead plants. They need to be cleared out so the new plant can thrive. Unless of course they decompose and then they become nutrients for the soil. Well too much nutrients aren't good either so maybe the plant would do ok but not thrive. I don't remember where I was going with that.

I want salad for some reason now.

Any way all kidding aside you seem to be moving from phase to phase in a good methodical method.

Figuring out what you need then moving forward.

very well done. Communicating that to your FWH as well.

Sounds like he is willing to give you what you need.

Good work.

Thanks for checking in Frog; in matters of recovery, it is nice to have someone IN recovery to guide you and even just let you know that what you are experiencing is normal.

I still feel raw, unprotected. I know that I can perservere in almost any situation now. Truthfully, recovery is at PWC's pace, with me guiding things a bit.

He is suffering from depression. He doesn't sound very fulfilled right now, from how he speaks down to his actions. From what he hints at during conversation, it sounds like he is suffering withdrawal, but again, what type of withdrawal, I'm unsure (from OW, from lifestyle, from ignoring his problems, or all of the above). We haven't gotten down to any nitty gritty, and I really want to take this very slowly.

I'm hoping to formulate some questions this week to ask about the affairs. I'm really more interested in the WHY's than the WHENs, WHERE's and WHAT's. I would like to know how he got to the point of making the decision to have his first affair.

I think the fantasy was, initially, very easy to maintain. Real life was kept at bay for some time.

Mostly, I often wonder how he's doing, really, how he's doing? From conversation, he sounds like he wants to go on AD's. I think it would be good for him. He's more active than I've seen him in the past, but I'm unsure what kind of dent that is making in the depression. It sounds like the relief is very short lived.

I feel badly for him. I know he's struggling. I know he's in pain. I know he is a bit lost. I know he is happy to be home, but unhappy to be home.

On a good note, he is so very helpful in matters of child rearing and discipline now. He is very supportive. I feel like a team, when it comes to DS.

I read today about two people from MB in recovery for two years now. They sound solid. That's really my goal. To laugh and love and feel a bit free from the chains of the A's, and of the behavior that begets the A's.

Seems about right. This part seemed weird to me but it is what it is. To this day I have a hard time rectifying that. But you seem to realize it and that is a good place to be.


What I see is it is less of an actual decesion per se. It is a process to get to a point where the line is blurred. At what point was the line blurred to make it seem ok is hard to determine.

It could have happened years ago and then the opportunity presented itself later.

I think in my case the A mentatlity was firmly in place before the A ever occured. My FWW just really didn't have the opportunity until it occured.

So dont' think that one day a switch went off in his head and he did it. The switch may have flicked an a year or two later the opportunity presented itself.


Well that makes sense. Home is supposed to be safe but he created an environment that it isn't.

It is uncomforatble. To me the only way I could think about it is when you go out with the guys and lose track of time a little. You are happy to be home then you look at your watch and go crap I am late. Then a little sense of uh oh hits you. For a FWS I am sure that holds true sometimes.

It is hard to be understanding of self inflicted pain but it is necessary.

Kinda like when you tell the kids stop doing that and then boom they fall and get hurt. You still comfort them.


That is great. We are finally getting there and it is making things better for everyone.

Wow, Frog, you made a very good point about the thought process that opens the door to wayward behavior. I am not immune from this.

I can safely say that *I* felt more of a sense of entitlement after our son was born. I became resentful after DS second year, when PWC was spending the bulk of his free time with his friends, while I lay in bed or read a book or did whatever by myself. I became the thing that he slept with. It was awful.

I felt I deserved to be happy, so I, too, began to go out very often with my friends. We excluded each other to the detriment of our relationship. We no longer lingered past our 'normal' bedtime in conversation. We no longer touched each other, paid any attention to each other. We lost interest in eachother's interests. When I think back to that environment now, I feel so sorry for the condition that I helped to put us in.

Now, I think opportunity arose when PWC started working in a very female dominant environment. To this day, I still think he doesn't fully get how this may have, on at least three occassions, lent itself to easy infidelity.

Again, I remember him recently asking me if it made me more comfortable to know that some of the ladies he works with are married with children. I said no, while thinking to myself, how does that keep people from infidelity, the having children?; children don't even really come to mind when you are in deep. Not really. So to me, people who are married are no less a threat than single people.

I think, in his way, he was trying to set my mind at ease, but that's not going to do it. Time and reinforcement that he is working toward recovery are really all that will work. Protection of our relationship, OF ME, is paramount to me not feeling threatened. Even if he leaves that company, and get's another job, unless it's an all male environment, there's always that chance.

Frog, I want to thank you so much for helping to straighten me out on some points, and show me that I'm not nuts for doing things the way I am.

SL,

I don't think anyone is really immune to infidelity.

I think back across our M and there was a time I had a lot of opportunities to have an A. At the time I could never imagine having one.

I think at times though you are suceptible(spelling) and then boom the opportunitiy presents itself.

I wonder sometimes what my level is.

I know there were times after D Day I got pretty tempted because of the anger but didn't do it.

I never hit my breaking point but I don't fool myself into believing it will not happen. Maybe that is the key. Never fooling yourself into beleiving you won't cross the line.

Because then you blur the boundries and next thing you know you have crossed it.

By the way I never said you weren't nuts.

LOL

Time and reinforcement are the only things that can bring back that safe feeling.

The more reinforcement the less time I think.

Well, right now there is nearly no reinforcement, but I was expecting that. We are still living in a PWC world. I'm not saying that sarcastically. I am ahead, he is way behind. We are together, sort of taking one day as it comes and goes.

PWC's personal recovery has not really started yet. He does not like the counselor that he has been working with (which I don't find unusual at all); mostly, PWC feels no connection with any counsel he's had so far. They all ask him the same questions about diet and exercise and drinking, and history, but I think PWC doesn't stay long enough to just get that out of the way, and move on to the grit of his problems. Again, I think meds would do him a world of good, at least temporarily, if he so chooses.

I don't know what is typical for men going through withdrawal, but I will continue to post and get feedback. I dream of a day when we are both sitting together having supper or out having a drink, and we have things to talk about, we don't have to grasp for a subject, we feel free again. Can you tell that I'm feeling a bit stifled right now?

Truthfully, much of this recovery has not made ME UNhappy, it just gives me stress. I have found that I am generally happy, just ME; I laugh and smile and goof and all that more often during my daily routine than I had in the past two years, so that's somethin'. I hope to bring that to my relationship more and more.

And yes, I AM nuts, so what of it?!

SL,

Are you guys in MC?

I like you am a happy person. I think if you told anyone around me what I have been going through or I have been through, they would be shocked.

It doesn't change the fact I want that part of my life to be a great source of happiness.

Not a source of okness or contentment, but happiness.

Recovery is slow but at some point, I don't think he is there yet, he has to start catching up.

I think your patience will pay off. It takes a while for the FWS to see there is a better way.

I also think the FWS is apprehensive(sp) that a better happier M could exist because they still probably have the thought that if the shoe were on the other foot they would be out the door.

So it is somewhat of a feeling out regaining trust period. He may be waiting for the day for you to wake up and realize you should kick him out.

So on both sides I am sure there is that trust issue. He needs to trust that his efforts will not result in the divorce he thinks may be coming.

I hope that made sense.

And as far as being nuts just watch out for squirrels.

Silentlucidity:

I just read your most recent post..you know you are such a giving person. I am so wrapped up in "my crisis" that I hardly ever read or post to others.

You and Ace have been such a life line to me all these monthes. . there are days when I checked for responses to my posting every fifteen minutes or so..just for the security of knowing someone is there and cares. God Bless You ..because he has certainly blessed me with your friendship. I hope one day we will all be through this, and one day I can reach out and help another as you have me.

Mish

What about YOU meeting HIS NEEDS? No positive feedback from him when you do that. This includes SF....

It will come.

That does come. It will get to the point where what happened between you isn't always in the back of your minds or threatening to intrude in every conversation. It just takes time for the pain to lessen and for you both to begin to feel safe with each other again.

In fact, my DH and I can talk openingly and freely now about the things that happened back then. Sometimes we can even joke about certain things (like the cellphone in the toliet!) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

SL ~ I am so, so, so relieved to know that I am not the only one. I struggle with this quite a lot, it's been very disheartening to me lately.

Like Chrisner said, "it will come back". I sure hope so, because it's been depressing me lately, that hard as I might try, there just isn't anything there. Or, anything I feel free enough to shre, anyways.

They don't call this a roller coaster for nuthin', now do they?

Oh yeah, and this...THIS is so very true (ok, I know you posted it awhile ago, but I just read it now):


Learning to live this "new normal", it's hard, isn't it? And maddening ~I don't WANT to live a "new normal", where my H's affair came and blew my "old normal" to h*ll. A normal in which a wretched affair came and destroyed everything.

But, I can b*tch and complain about it as much as I want, it isn't gonna change anything.

Accepting it is my only option, and it's just taking a while. It's hard and it's frustrating and drainig and...so many other things.

But we're working hard at building that "new, better" marriage, and that's the only thing we have to keep us going. Right, SL?

MF stated where my pain is right now, this new normal, RIGHT NOW, is so very hard to swallow. I'm chewing with my mouth closed, and the texture is not pleasant, so I gag here and there, and when I finally do swallow, I feel a bit of relief. The next bite comes and I chew away.

Mimi, as for SF, well, I do initiate. To be honest, I think I'm pretty good at it. No slouch. He seems pleased, so far. I've got some things up my sleeve. Unfortunately, my back going out threw me for a loop, so I haven't been initiating (and he hasn't at all--maybe afraid of rejection), and today, well, I've got a sore throat, pretty bad, like cotton balls are in there. May have the dreaded strep again, not sure. When it rains...

I fulfill needs he has from what he does, for recreational, conversational, affection, financial. He plans outtings and I go, and enjoy. He plans get togethers and I am happy to be there and entertain. I am working on my physique, although I am attractive and somewhat fit, I could do better on the fitness. I cook more regularly. I stay up later now, to talk or watch movies or what not. I help with projects that he shows enthusiasm for. I listen with TRUE interest about his work and his day.

Also, and this is my struggle right now, I am hugely triggered by the fourth of July holiday. A time when OW#1 came to my home, into my home, and talked so sweetly to me, and about me and about my son, meanwhile, she's having an affair with my H. Can we say TRIGGER? Yup, big one. I will be discussing this with PWC, just so he's aware, not to punish, but to make him aware.

It's getting worse as the day comes closer. I deal with the emotions and move on, but they keep coming at me. It's nuts really. If we make it past the next couple of weeks and I discover no affairs and he doesn't leave, that will be a good Fourth of July. Two years running, it's been a bad time. I just didn't think it would hit me this hard. I feel like a loon for letting it get to me, but I know how to deal with triggers and will get through.

Oh, Frog, as to the question about counseling, we are not in MC now, but will be discussing our recovery plan, which may include traditional counseling, may not. We have been doing okay, but both recognize the need to set up a new plan, hence the question/answer sessions I want to set up. I asked if we could talk about some specific questions tonight. I will not be broaching anything about the A's, as I'm finding that THEY are not the real problem; the behavior is.

I'm finding more and more that I don't really want to know much about these women. They don't mean much to me. I don't care what they look like, smell like, or act like. I only care what needs PWC has that I have not been filling that they did fill. That's really all I need to know. I think this question alone would give PWC much to think on, and much to discover about what he did get out of the A's.

Hey SL!

Holidays Suck!

Wayzilla carried a little smoochie email in her wallet (I found it after the Thanksgiving D-Day) from Gollum he sent on the 4th of July last year. That's about when the EA was really starting to take off.

Our city fireworks are in a field right next to our house so for years we would all go up on the roof and had a great time watching them. Last year Wayzilla did not want to go up with DD18 (at the time) and me. She was starting her physical withdrawal from me.

Affairs suck!