For my H, his A was definitely an ANTIDEPRESSANT..self-medication after a series of losses...

Maybe this is so for your H...

My H came to realize that it wasn't so much HER as the AFFAIR HIGH that he was addicted to...

ESCAPING FROM HIS PAIN...

S/L:

Now you are getting it....This whole Paragraph:

"I started to get the distinct feeling that he was trying to say something to me, about himself, about his woes, his pain. When he talked about his father, my heart ached. He hid it so well at the time, but his mother's and father's deaths have hit him hard. Maybe a bit of identity crisis? Maybe just extreme loss, nothing being solved, no answers. One thing he said was that he will never know what really happened between his mother and father, before he was adopted by his grandparents. He will never have those answers, because both his natural and adoptive parents are dead. Broke my heart. I understand, I, too, will not have all the answers I wanted, but I'm learning to give them less importance in my life than working on myself with what I do know."

LET him talk!

That connection, from his grandparents, his bio folks, all flow thru YOU to his SON.

And no matter what, YOU have THAT....

Let HIM Talk...

"PWC has suffered profound loss in these last 5 years. I really am listening.

Lat him TALK!

LG

Could be, Mimi.

PWC mentioned wanting to have FUN, and that I was NO FUN. This was something he said a number of times. At the time, you take it very personally, but I can now HEAR what he was saying. Still hurts to have the phrases lobbed at me, but I know it was ABOUT him.

Very interesting that you posted this.



I was thinking that YOU TWO need to have FUN...maybe not so much of the SERIOUS TALK.

That was true for me, too, SL. I was NO FUN and that's been one of major ways that I have changed. I LAUGH AND JOKE AND KID all the time NOW and my H loves it...

An affair is all about THEATER..and PLAY..and PRODUCTION by the OW...

They can't keep that up 24/7 without feeling DECADENT..that's what happened for my H in PLAN B..it began to feel SICK and BAD and she wanted to keep it up..

BUT...we still need that in our REAL relationship..I"m recommending that you move in that direction...

BR recommended SARK for me and reading her stuff has been WONDERFUL..learn to BE JUICY..EAT MANGOES NAKED...Where's the litte girl in you?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

LG, I can never say it enough, but, Thank you.

That goes for you, too, Mimi.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Funny, you should mention the stuff about being FUN. I WAS a lot of fun, before we had DS. I got a bit lost, taking everything on myself. I had fun with DS, but *I* didn't have fun, just me, just SL, hootin and hollerin! I had moments here and there, but not much fun.

I think this is part of what PWC was originally attracted to. I could make sitting around a table fun. Playing frisbee was fun, bike riding, walking, playing pool, pretty much anything. It was more about an attitude of happiness than creating diversions.

PWC stopped by the barber this afternoon to shorten his hair up a bit. He gets it buzzed, crew cut style, so that he's got this short, prickly hair. When he walked in the door, I said, "let me see the new do!" and I put my hands on his head and rubbed it. I said "I just love the feeling of a fresh haircut, it looks good." THat's something I would do without thinking much, find ways to touch him. Today, it came naturally. That's nice.

I'm trying to get back in touch with that little girl, 'cause she was fun. I tried to grow up too much. Too much reality makes SL not much fun. I admit it. Letting go of all of the 'stuff' of life and having a good time is okay, it's actually responsible, because it takes care of YOU and those around you.

Ah, I love that feeling too...can't blame you there!

And good for you on getting in touch with that inner child...what a great place to be!!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

This could be me talking, SL..

This is EXACTLY what happened to me..

And my H was definitely ATTRACTED to me being the LIFE OF THE PARTY...

He wanted me back...

You are on the RIGHT TRACK, SL..

Move swiftly in the direction of getting your OLD SELF back and you will have ONE HAPPY HUSBAND...

And you will BE HAPPY too, of course... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sounds familiar . . . .

Hey Guy Smiley,

I think it could do wonders for you to start seeking out that 'guy' now. Get back to you. It's tough to cut through all of the anger and depression, but it's the best thing for you. My friends started to notice a change in my demeanor when I entered Plan B. It wasn't until March that they remarked how well I seemed to be doing, how much like MYSELF I was again.

I'm one goofy broad, and that was completely lost, like a sandcastle at high tide. GONE.

I still see that negative girl, she popped her head up this morning, but, i pushed her aside, kissed my husband on his neck, and got my day started. That negativity kills me, but when I examine it at all, I realize it's me messing with me.

This is something that PWC has posted on our office wall...

Let's hear it for the GOOFY BROAD!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Say Goodnight Gracie!

Goodnight Gracie!

What in the world are you talking about?

How can you PLAY and not BE RELAXED??

Time to work towards the RECOVERY MINDSET.

Enough of this...

LET YOURSELF GO, SL...

BE FREE...

HAVE FUN NO MATTER WHAT...

Get you some water pistols...

Put on your dancing music...

How about coloring books?

A Hula Hoop....

Or get naked and stay naked after your little one goes to sleep..do it for yourself not PWC...

FREE YOURSELF...there's a little girl in there somewhere...

Not relaxed around your house? We can't have that!!

I thought you were in GODDESS TRAINING!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Check out Susan's thread..31 Years..

Susan, Pep and BR got me from being STUCK where you are...

That Sweet Potato Queen, Susan..she REALLY knows how to have FUN...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Mimi!

Well, funny, I think it's not that I'm not relaxed at home; I'm not relaxed with PWC. I don't know why. I am trying to understand.

When he's not here, I just feel more relaxed. I don't know why, truly. I could hazzard a guess, poorly.

How do I go about my everyday, unconcerned about PWC? I don't mean not thinking of him, but UNCONCERNED, letting go of that. It's that control/fear thing again. I tell myself that if I don't give all that I can, he will find someone else who will AGAIN. Sometimes the anger in me says that he can go ahead, which is not true to what I would want. I still continue to give, despite the evil anger. I do, and haven't been looking for any reward. I wonder if I'm focused on seeing an improvement in PWC, for fear that I could live in this lackluster place forever. It's scary. I'm crying uncontrollably now. I can't stop the tears. FEAR SUX!

I hope this is an epiphany moment, dangit! I DON'T WANT TO FEEL LIKE THIS!!!!! I take one step forward, absorb others knowledgable advice, use it, do it, and then I get pulled back by fear, anger, control issues. I know they are not to do with PWC, but right now, they are focused there.

A goddess doesn't have this fear, this anger. Or, atleast, she doesn't let that be her guide.

Silent:

The fear does SUX.

And you have reasons for fear. PWC did this to you twice, and a false recovery and whole lot of other things to make you fear his basic ability to stray. (To stray, once you have already, is a whole lot easier to do...) That is why the Harley's and thier EN's and how to grow an affair proof marriage are so critical. You have passed thru that info. PWC has not yet done it.

It really is time for PWC to start stepping up to the plate some.

Your fear will never dissipate until he really does step up.

He may sense your fears, and the standoffishness (is that a word? and may be even more than what you really are doing)

Therefore, he doesn't move forward like he should be. But, it is still up to him.

Has he given you transparency? Full access?

One thing, you could not be feeling these fears around him, and you could be just as unconcerned at home with him, as you are at work.

And he could still just be the same way. You may be in the right place, but you are at the bus stop, and he's still five stops behind.

Remember that. This is a journey that both of you must take, and he has a lot of catching up to do.

Even if he doesn't want to, he needs to speed up the pace.

(Mimi, that's why I recommend some direct Harley help for this couple...)

Be happy, be fun, fake it till you make it, put your 15 hours in, and soon you will see the movement.

Let him talk.

LG

I don't have much time but I came on to say..YOU'VE GOT IT!!

Certainly you will be fearful..but you don't let it GUIDE you and hold you back from the JOY..read my signature line..this is what I began working on for MYSELF...

I disagree with LG on this one.

This again is about YOU..what you have to do for YOURSELF in order to HEAL..

Regardless of what he is doing..over which you have no CONTROL..by the way...it's time to begin to LET GO...

I remember that FEAR..dang it, I lived through at least 2 RECOVERIES..but I decided not to let it CONTROL me anymore..

The secret is that once you do this for YOURSELF..you will become even more ATTRACTIVE to him...

This is the process that should have begun during PLAN B..letting go of HIM..and taking care of YOURSELF...

I'm telling you to have FUN in your HOUSE for YOURSELf..

What do you need to do to make it a FUN..more RELAXING place??

I've done all sorts of things in this regard..CANDLES..MUSIC...special WHATNOTS..

THIS IS ABOUT YOU and your own PERSONAL RECOVERY..not about HIM...

LATER....

The big ONE (fear), what if I fail? CJ is always so good at this. She would say, "Well, so you fail, so what happens next? Let's examine that..."

LG, I think you hit it with this statment alone

He may sense your fears, and the standoffishness (is that a word? and may be even more than what you really are doing)

He may be sensing more than there is there, if I'm, say, having a bad day, nothing to do with him. I really don't know, but perception can be everything in moments like that. Just as my perceptions can be so far off the mark, so can his.

I think I'm at the point where I want to ask PWC IF he wants some help with this. Suggesting that he talk to Steve H. It sounds like Steve H is a master at this stuff, and can really help PWC with mindset. Just to get him started.

Full access==yes.
Transparency==as far as I can tell.
15 hours==yes, a couple hours here a couple hours there, throughout the week, with more hours usually falling on Friday, Sat and Sun. due to work. We watch movies together, sometimes just talk, sometimes music, etc and so on.

I'm much calmer now, after taking in what Mimi had to say and understanding that my fear is natural, not some concoction I've blown up in my head. It helps to deal with real fears; I can grasp at those. It's the unfounded ones that I used to have trouble with.

LG, I may call Steve myself. Every little bit of guidance is good.