SL:
I see the picking up your clothes thing as major, really, because I was there just couple of months ago and I know how much that little gesture meant for us...And the kissing thing was major too...I'm so happy for you...Believe me, all other things will follow.

My H still can't kiss me deeply yet when we have SF. We do all the other things and we have SF so much better than before, but this little thing still bothers me...I know where it came from...It's only 4 months after true NC and I know his brain is still messed up by his previous experience...It is painful for me...But I can see his actions now and I can see he doesn't want this to hurt me but he is still not there in his personal recovery...and I'm trying to put it in perspective and I'm sure this thing will change when time comes...And pressing the issue won't help in my opinon, so I leave it as is and try to enjoy the good part of it...

I'm learning here also with you SL. I messed up much much more than you did, believe me. I was a mess when he was withdrawing...exploding and saying hurtful words again and again to him...I had very little self control and I was very clingy and needy, which made things worse...Only when I learned to be calm and try to listen to him, he seems to come around little by little...Some of my H's behavior during withdrawal was awful...He couldn't even touch me and had trouble even being receptive of my affections...He was a mess also...

So I'm here with you, learning and improving ourselves...most likely, our M will come along with it...

LA

SL, based on what I've read, I think that your recovery is probably as on track as any. It's not easy. You will be ahead of him. It's going to take him extra time because of where he's coming from. You won't see the things you would really really really love to see until later.

I'm happy about the clothes, and very happy that you recognized it for what it is and are celebrating it.

I'm happy that you are sharing your thoughts and experiences, because even though it sounds like no fun at all, I still hope to get there myself.

Now, have you scheduled with the Harleys yet? I'm going to ask you every day and maybe put it in my sig line until you do.

I liked Kayla's words about inviting him. Maybe you will get other suggestions, too.

LA,

Thank you. I hope you can keep reading along and learning. I'm going to check out your thread, since I know you are in recovery also. It will be good to see what you talk about. Any advice you are getting may be helpful to me also.

I have also found that my need to know things about the A ebbs and flows. I tend to wait on asking questions until the EMOTION passes and I can think clearly. I have most of the who and where and when, not so much the why. I think that will reveal itself as PWC heals, and learns. I don't want to know details, either. I don't think that will serve any purpose but to hurt me.

Guy Smiley,

I will call when my check clears (unfortunately, company switched over with HR and we got paper checks instead of Direct Deposit this pay, what a pain in the brain!). I promise to let you guys know when I do have the appointment. I know that you've had appointments with Jennifer, and you probably have a good idea about preparation for the session. You have no idea how grateful I am to the attention you guys have given my recent posts.

You are a wonderful life line. When I'm feeling nuts, I post; I don't take it to the R. Sometimes, I begin to let emotion rule my thoughts and actions; rarely a good thing right now. I level off, and start to think clearly again.

Guy, I am happy to hear that you are still wanting recovery. It is hard, challenging, and will only work with solid changes and implementation of respect, and care. Yes, this part has been hard for me AND for PWC, but that doesn't mean it will be like this forever, for, as long as I'm willing to make positive steps toward change, behavior modification, I feel it's only natural that PWC will eventually follow.

If I'm not browbeating him, If I'm respectful and loving, I really feel he will begin to feel more safe and begin to engage me more. I just have to hunker down and open my ears.

Be very careful about this. You can't control his choice.

Respectful is a good goal. That's your part. His part is separate.




An important decision to make is WHAT IS THE LEAST YOU ARE WILLING TO ACCEPT AND FOR HOW LONG?



He knows this. It has been my experience that WS's will often put forth the minimum amount of effort required in order to still get what they want.

So you set the bar, and not based on whatever you think is the most you can get him to participate, but based on what YOU NEED.

If you set the bar at crumbs out of fear, crumbs is what you will get.

He picked my clothes up again, and I thanked him, via TM, because he had to get out of the house earlier this morning.

I recently sent an email to PWC, apologizing, again, in writing, about my mistakes this past weekend, and clarifying why I was wrong. I also mentioned how some things he said hurt me, even though I understood WHAT he was saying, and did agree with it.

In his response he said this...


The only part of this paragraph that I pointedly responded to was that in bold.

I said that I accept him for who he is. It is my decision to do so. I told him that it's an assumption to KNOW what kind of man I may want/need. If he wants to know, he can ask, and I will answer with honestly.

I also told him that I didn't expect it (recovery) to be this hard either.

He mentioned guilt, quite a bit, and said that guilt can't be a reason for recovery. I responded that I agree and that, upon entering recovery, I didn't ask for his 'guilt', but his 'love', and then I described what I believe love is TO ME, not to anyone else.

I believe love is about care, protection , and respect, among other things. I believe mature love is much different from romantic love, but it involves the ebb and flow of aspects of romantic love (worded it differently).

I thanked him for his candor and ended with "Love & Respect". Before now, I would have let all of what he said HURT me, I would have allowed that. This time, my heart didn't flutter when i saw that he responded. My body stayed calm ,and as I read the email, I felt happy that he was open to answering.

Some of what he said seems quite normal, to me, at this stage. He sounds fearful; maybe he's not, just the way he says things like 'the end product'. Is there an end product to marriage. Isn't that DEATH? Yikes, I believe in death, but it's a little early to be examining that! (Kidding, I understand what he means). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Progress!!!!!

"Exxxxxxxcellent" - Monty Burns

Wow, SL, recovery doesn't sound like much fun. If I were you (remember, I'm divorced, so take it with a grain of salt), I would lighten up, dumb down, and have some fun.

Get a sitter, tell hubby you are tired of talking so seriously and want to have fun, fun, fun. When he talks about his female boss, agree that she is a ******. Find some things to admire about him, and tell him.

S/L:

Put a big star on your Calendar for this day.

PWC just admited his worst fear to you, in writing, so you can hold it up anytime, and say: "SEE YOUR RIGHT!"

But you NEVER will do that now. Cuz your an MB woman now.

You will, going forward, let him KNOW how you can make him feel like the man he can become in your eyes.

Admiration.

Thank him for his honesty, and move on to something else.

"Wow, you seem to be having real fun with DS!"
"Great job on that project at work!"
"thanks for fixing the siding"
"How about a *Beer* for the bestest *Daddy* in the world?" Sub as needed: Husband, lover, driver, worker, playmate, french fries, steak, ice cream, etc.

Repeat every day.

Touch him every day.....

"I need you...."

LG

Believer, I am with you, girl. I'm heading out of this fog, and into the sun. Just because you didn't recover your marriage, does not mean that you don't know how to appreciate a good mate. Thanks for chiming in.

Chrisner, thanks bunches.
I see it as progress too! I'm a bit tired of the R talk, so I think I'm going to stop it for now, just do the day to day living thing. I'm reading up on the "over 50's" thread; sounds like good stuff in there. I hope you are doing well, and filled with happiness. Hope DD is doing well; I know school is starting and how hectic life gets . I truly, utterly, HATED college. I was working all of the time, or studying. Didn't get to do much of the partying; I also didn't live at home, so getting by was crazy.

LG,

Nope, I will not be doing that to him. I KNOW what facing your fears feels like. I know that he does not need me to REINFORCE those fears, but to help allay them. He is who he is, I accept that. I will be MORE accepting of changes that he makes as he grows older.

I will be more supportive, and listen. I will be honest and open. I'm not nearly as afraid to be honest with him as I was just 5 days ago. We weathered something quite real and major (for me at least).\

I'm settling back down, and wanting to relax, smile, enjoy the passing days. My DS starts school in 1.5 weeks. This is an exciting time, and I want to enjoy it, and I want to help PWC enjoy it.

Hey SL, I really was pleased to read your post today and the changes you see in yourself and your composure and understanding. Like I said the other day recovery is like Cinderella going to the Vampyr Ball and finding out she needs to become Buffy quick.

You are doing great.

I have been doing pretty well thank you. The divorce is just over 2-months final but I am holding on.

I had a couple tough days the past week hearing how excited Wayzilla is about buying her new house with the $ 80,000 she got in the refinance buyout. All I got is a $400 increase in my mortgage payment for the same home I have been in for 14 years.

DD19 agreed to see the house at an inspection and it turned out to be a whole family gathering with ex- MIL FIL BIL and BIL S7.

DD did not have much to say about it afterwards and refers to the house as "the trailer". Where does she get that stuff?

Good work SL! You are my hero!

Hmmm, 'where does she get that stuff?" hmmmm, lemme think for a milisecond. Could it BEEEEEEEEEE, daddy's sense of humor, aaaaaayyyyyy? It's a wonderful trait to have, even when you are using it to connote sarcasm and anger.

My capes in the shop right now, some of the threads were unraveling, but I've got my BRACELETS!

With all of the company that arrived, and their loose definition of marriage, the place should be called a MOTEL.

Thanks for hangin in there with me, Chris, you have always been so encouraging, and I appreciate it.

HO-Tel

BAHHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! Good one...

HEY!! That's my line Chrisner! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

OOOOOO,

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

(the schoolyard is abuzz with chanting and expectation of a rumble...)

Hey, a rare sighting! We lured BC out of the bayou!

Sorry I stole your line BC but you used to be a lot faster.

That's Right!

There's gonna be 2 sounds

1.me hittin chris and 2.chris hittin me.......wait, no.....
1.me smacking chris in the face and 2.chris smacking SL on the.....no,that's not right either..........1.my fist to chris's head and 2.chris's head to [email]my.......nope.....d@mmit!![/email]

Awww F it!

Ya'll wanna get a beer? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

and I posted Chapter III Chris, I don't even think you saw it.

Nyukk Nyukk Nyukk

Thanksgiving With SD, BC and Chrisner

Turkey Jambalaya!


Did you run it by any attorneys?

SD, that was a nice catch, BUT you've got to hit the cut off man!!

Now NOBODY get's turkey <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />