Well, I can't say that I'm sorry for his decision. I really, honestly, have let go. I love him, will love him, will do what I can, and have no control over the response. I've got all of the right ingredients at my disposal.

Believer is right, either he joins in or not, either way, I've given it one h3ll of a shot. PWC may change his mind in the future, about MB, but right now, he is completely turned off by the boards; he gets discouraged, as a FWS.

I dissociate the boards from the MB principles/counseling, but I don't know if he can/does. There is absolutely NO bashing of the WS in the counseling sessions; there is accountability for your part in recovery, yes, but NO bashing.

I don't know, it's not FOR me to know. I will do what I can to help recovery and hope that he does the same. THe fact that he is looking down other avenues is encouraging, not discouraging, to me.

Hi SL.

Have you seen CV55's "Raise the Bar" thread in Recovery? You may want to check it out and see if there is more feedback you could get from her.

I hope you are well.

~ chrisner

Thanks Chrisner, I'll read it.

Hey, SL. I just got back from visiting my sister in WA, thought I'd check in with you.

Sorry to hear you hit a speedbump. I'm thinking of you.

((((SL))))

Fox

Howdy Foxy lady,

Hope you had a great trip visiting your sister.

Meh, speedbumps aside, I'm doing just fine. Acceptance is key, and is much more difficult than it sounds. Yesterday was a very low day for me. I was weepy all day long. Maybe it's the lack of sunshine for the last 5 days, I dunno.

I'm back on my game today, on my toes. I'm looking forward to DS starting school Monday. I also worry over how he will be in school. He's an antsy kid, borderline ADHD, me thinks. He's always done well in a structured environment in the past, but he's been out of one for the past year and a half, so he may have some molding to do. No matter, I'll deal with that when/if the time comes.

I am excited for him because he's been home all summer, and hasn't been around kids all day long. He misses having close friends, so I look forward to him having that again. He's really a great kid, he loves to share and TALK TALK TALK, and play, tumble, etc.

Hey, maybe you could fill us in on your trip when you have the chance.

IMO, your biggest task is to GET RID OF YOUR FEAR...

And to develop FAITH...in YOURSELF...

I'm glad that you are talking to Jennifer 'cause I think this is mostly about your own SELF-HEALING...

This work takes TIME AND PATIENCE...

My H wasn't really NORMAL for a year after RECOVERY..his A lasted over TWO YEARS...but anyways..that's OUR STORY...



You have yourself, SL...




AUGUST 15, 2003..I moved into this house that MY HUSBAND FOUND FOR US, begging me to move in here with him, giving up finding MY OWN HOUSE.. my husband moved in with me two weeks later...

TODAY..I'VE NEVER BEEN HAPPIER IN MY WHOLE LIFE...

WE ARE SO HAPPY..and SO IN LOVE...

I PRAY THE SAME FOR YOU....

But, FIRST AND FOREMOST.... FIND YOURSELF..FALL IN LOVE WITH YOURSELF..

Become a GLAMOROUS, WARRIOR GODDESS...

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for dropping in Mimi. Last week was not good FOR ME. Yup, fear fear fear fear. Lots and lots, oodles and oodles.

I've decided to just leave PWC out of that; he can't FIX anything in me. I have to stop relating to him like he WAS and accept who he IS. This is scary, because changes have occurred, in both of us. Will we like eachother again?

I feel better already, having made this decision, to focus on what I can change, and improve, and care for; ME. I thought I understood this already, but it took my fear brimming over to get me to SEE.

I read your post about acceptance and it resonated with me.

Session with Jen on Wednesday, right? Let us know how it goes.

I'll let you know tomorrow. The session is later this evening, so I don't think I'll have time to post tonight.

Feeling more at ease these days. Got my book yesterday (The Language of Letting Go) and am finding that, after last week, I have really begun the process of letting go, detaching with love. I had done this back in Plan B, but it was easier in the ABSENCE of PWC. It's harder to own your own stuff, and give theirs back to them.

I'm living one day at a time now. It's better.

Also, not that I don't like to read about it, but I've stopped reading the recovery boards so much. I find that it makes life easier to deal with it in my own fashion, instead of trying to measure up to others' recoveries. I have a husband who is not all that interested in MB. He sure does practice a lot of the principles, but doesn't want to come here, or counsel.

I still believe that we can make it, and now understand how long this REALLY is going to take. My fears are subsiding day by day, as I come to realize how powerful I am in my own life. So, today, I feel good, and plan on feeling good many more days to come.

DS is in school, and he seems to like it alot, having something to talk about at dinner time every night. He's also exhausted by bed time, which is nice! Life is good.

MARVELOUS!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

(BTW...I could never relate to the RECOVERY FORUM either)

Oh, thank goodness! WHEW, Mimi, I felt like an ALIEN reading over there. Sometimes I read that people have expectations on that board, that, in my existence, aren't really healthy. I do believe that I have earned a certain level of respect, and that NC is of the utmost in that regard, as well as civil and/or kind treatment of me, but I don't believe in contorting yourself in to shapes that cause you to have MAJOR setbacks when you cannot maintain that position. If it's unnatural, you won't be able to maintain it. IMveryhumbleO.

I believe in slow and steady. I am in no rush to some finish line; we will NEVER be finished, if we do it right.

This statement somewhat suprised me. You personify power and strength in your posts. You have shown the power in your own life when PWC left for a while, when you were in plan b.

Your fears now are related to recovery? If you will or if you won't recover?

If you both change will you like each other when the butterfly comes out of the cacoon?

That will be hard to tell right?

BTW I am not much into the recovery boards either. Some people seem to set an unrealisticly high bar.

Well keep up the good work. Your personal recovery + his personal recovery gives you the best chance at an M recovery.

Howdy Frog,

I was just discussing the subject of personal and marital recovery with a GF.

One thing I will be discussing with Jennifer is the lack of intimacy in our relationship currently. NO SEX for two months now, no affections from him. I am affectionate, and would like to be more, but feel like that could come off as suffocating, NEEDY. I have asked PWC about the lack of intimacy, only to get convoluted answers that walk around the subject.

PWC says he is 'working' on himself. I don't really have a clear example of what this means and how he is doing this or WHAT he is doing.

I need to find a way to communicate that I want our M to be stronger and more intimate, without DJ'ing, LB'ing or becoming emotional. I believe Jennifer will have some insights.

As of now, we have a roommate situation. We have gone back to the way things were before the A's ever occurred, except this time around, I'm ready and willing to be open, intimate, giving.

Again, just living day by day. I do feel pretty strong these days. I do feel more powerful over myself. I do want my M to feel that way, too, hence the phone call with Jennifer. The first step is recognizing the problem, the next is finding ways to deal with it.

I absolutely HATE to say this, SL...

But this would make me awfully suspicious..

As much as we STRUGGLED, this was not true of our RECOVERY...

I'm wondering what Jennifer thinks about THIS...

Him going this long concerns me for you...

Me too, Mimi, me too...

I don't quite have an answer, except to say that he may just living here until SOMETHING changes for him. He may be waiting for things to just magically get better. He's not putting much effort into us, but loads of effort into our DS.

You can now fully READ my concern. Yes, I'm recovering, but our M is not. I don't even really know if he is. I need to find a constructive way to talk to him about this, without throwing down ultimatums. I don't really care for that tact, anyway. I would prefer he just made a decision and stuck with it.

My understanding, when he came home, was that our M was important to him. His actions speak otherwise, so I need to figure out if I have a boundary about this, and how to enforce it. Hence, the conversation with Jennifer. I have no need for a roommate.

I've been AWFULLY suspicious also, hence the meltdown last week. THe fear brimming up is not some internal struggle, it's about my M, not my fear; it's based in REALITY, the reality of my current sitch.

I would rather divorce than have a marriage that is a sham, as I see it. My definition of marriage includes OODLES of intimacy, of slaying those fears together. I don't see that happening right now. I really don't know this guy.

I don't believe he's in another affair, but I do believe he's withholding, for whatever reason. It's up to him to join in.

Basically, I need to find a constructive way to have a conversation about our M.

SL,

I read your PA thread and to be honest if he is really PA he may be witholding just to be in control.

Just to tweek you a little. Knowing what you want and purposely not giving it to you.

Normally I refrain from advice like this and I don't mean to offend. My FWW tried to use SF against me.

I took care of myself right next to her in bed when "I thought she was asleep" She mentioned it and I said I needed the pleasure and you don't want to so.....

Get a BOB and make sure he is fully aware of the fact you are taking care of yourself. It took away her power.

I might not be getting it from her but I was fine on my own.

Never imply going elswhere though.

Well, Frog, since you mention it. I do this, because *I* do need the pleasure, the release. No BOB though, for now.

He IS PA. He has no doubt, I have no doubt.

All throughout the last two years of ups and downs (pardon the pun), we have had sex, no problem. Even in that first month of recovery, in May and part of June, then NOTHIN. Affair or not, we were sexually compatible, NOW NOTHIN.
I have no idea what's going on with him.

I have considered that this may be about control. The kicker is this, I know there is no such thing. His behavior doesn't do anything TO me, it just indicates that he's not there yet. I can certainly take care of myself, in terms of SF, but I cannot inject intimacy with an unwilling partner.

If this is the case, we have no marriage. I'm more than willing to examine this. I prefer reality to games.

SL,

My guess would be it is a PA game.

He admits he is and you see it. My point isn't to play a game but to take away the power.


You want or "expect" SF and you aren't getting it.

I agree you don't want to live with a room mate. If he is pA there is a new level for him to get to for him to recover.

My PA FWW has not put in the effort to be honest. We are not an may never be recovered.

She actually told me she doesn't like the new Frog. The one that stand up for himself. Doesn't enable her behavior, doesn't avoid conflict and who isn't co dependent anymore.

That frog worked for her. The new one not so much.

She made a comment the other day about my OS and he is PA too now. Trying to break him of it. She said "well he learned it from the best."

With a PA person move the button. Don't just take care of yourself. Let him know you are doing it, do it with him next to you.

Act like it is no skin off your back. See if it changes.

Oh, I'm beginning to do the DUCK, WATER, BACK thing. I needed to detach a bit, and am doing much better, even after one week.

Heck, I've been soothing the goddess within for a couple of years now.

I want a combined goal of a recovered marriage. I don't really care about the path, as long as there is one, and we are in agreeance. If PWC honestly doesn't want the same thing, I am unwilling to stay. Yes, I took vows for better or worse. I did not take vows stating that there would be no marriage.

This is what makes our recovery so much more difficult. It will not be traditional. I'm dealing with someone who seems to want to BLAME others for his lot in life. I'm just not like that. I'm pretty much the opposite. I take full responsiblity for where I've been, and where I am.

PWC has applied for jobs, and then told them they need to offer more for him to come. They make him an offer, and he says it's not good enough. They increase again, not good enough (it's a whole ****** of a lot better than what he's making in the sinking ship that he works in, IMO).

I wouldn't apply for a job and be unwilling to compromise AT ALL. That's who I am. Once he does get into a position, if he is not adored, he silently revolts, which solves nothing, IMO.

I can survive all of this, I just don't know if a marriage can. What keeps me here most of the time is the thought of my son going through more trauma, without a solid try from me. Knowing that PA behavior is a part of our dynamic, I must try to work with that