I have 2 threads

My Story
HELP W is planning something

2/5/07
I am adding some of the latest posts I made to give some insight.

Its been a few days and feeling more like it is going to end although I do not know how soon.

W says the papers are nothing, Found an email to Sprint from early Jan when I truly messed everything up saying that my "soon to be ex husband" is trying to gain access to her cell phone.

Between this, her distant demeanor, her frugality w/ purchases and the papers I found,living like we are separated already. The other day I asked about one of the cats and she replied that the cat was in her room b/f catching herself saying in the bedroom.

Other than interactions needed with the kids we barely talk, I have tried to make things as easy as I can for her to relate. Quiet tone, positive body posture, Although maybe she does view me right now as a doormat also.

Dont know what she is planning - I wish she would at least have the decency to let me know for my own good and the fact that we can tell the kids together and make it as easy as possible instead of waiting til the last minute.

I know we struggled a lot through the years but feel I dont even know her anymore, Even though I was told by the lawyer I saw not to say anything I brought it up last night and told her that the atty. told me to file and I dont want to.

Also mentioned that he said to me that her atty. probably told her not to say anything but I couldn't be like that and if she really was planning something to at least tell me - I would understand - Hurt but I would understand.

2/10/07
Well, I think W filed for S or D, The papers I saw are missing and she has been reading a book about coping after D.

I saw another lawyer - But he also said w/ some of my issues from the past I don't have a very good chance or getting custody.

Feel so screwed over right now and very alone, I just tried to talk to her and asked if she thought S or D was any way to help us get through.

She said she didnt know but we cant live like this, Each of us hiding from each other, I said we didnt have to for many reasons it's worth it to try an make it.

She told me she thinks I am still trying to control everything - That is furthest from the truth - I said for the kids we brought into this world - We both probably needed to see a C a long time ago and they deserve better.

Also asked if she cared for me that why would she want to put me out and make life more difficult.

I dont know waht to do, Yes fear again, Fear of losing my family, fear of the unknown if I lose this fight, fear of the money it would cost both of us to get through this.

2 attorneys told me unless I have irreftuable eveidence, that some of my character flaws over time gives me almost no chance of keeping kids, getting CS, remaining in the house we built.

Next Post 3/8/07
I dont know where we are at anymore, I am still there and switched IC's and W has stopped seeing the IC after her EAP benefits wore out.

She says she hasn't filed anything but refuses to work on anything including herself - Right now we are coexisting in this messed up world.

My job has been adding stress as we are short several people in a service group, I have tried getting a life and sometimes I see her get a twinge of wonder but the rest of the time she is so cold and unfeeling. Almost 14 yrs married and she acts like we barely know each other.

I have only tried to talk R/M maybe once a week and let her know that it could be salvaged still and trying to let her know that I want to address the things I brought w/o saying too much about the A - I feel sometimes her anger or iciness is related to her guilty feelings and if she really knew how much I cared about everything and could move past all this that we could.

Now her latest thing is b/c of my "commando" tactics concerning spying, confronting and telling people she says it would be hard for her to trust me?

I havent given up yet and any snooping I have done is minimal but do know from things I have seen is that she has not retained an atty.

I am going to start some snooping again but very low key until tax refund when I will decide to either go to Plan B or hire a PI - My love and care for her and our life hasnt died but it gets tested.

Thanks for checking in

3/27/07

I guess like they say when you least expect it, I made an appt w/ a highly regarded family law atty for today and I am still going to go through w/ it but............

Yesterday when I got home the thermostat gave up and D11 and I went to Home Depot to get one, Replaceed it and W was late so I asked the kids if they wanted to go to Friendly's and also thought it would be good bonding for us.

D11 called her mother and said what we were doing, W said she was getting gas and would be home, Kids dragged their feet and W pulled in, I tried to hide a little so she wouldn't feel forced to come and at that time I didn't think I wanted her too as I was resigning myself to the fact that things were moving forward.

After all last week - 2 days before I received paperwork I tried one last time to talk R/M but got papers in the mail 2 days later.

Anyway W kind of searched me out and all I said was that she owed me 1/2 for the thermostat, She followed me out to the car and said that she didn't want to ruin my time w/ the kids, Did I not want her to go? I said if she wanted to it was up to her and it wouldn't bother me.

She must have told the kids to wait in the house and was talking to me from the passenger side open window and looking like the person I knew back before this all began.

We were talking about some things when she asked what I would think if she said she made a mistake? I asked what about - Retaining an atty for S or the last 6 mths.

Then she walked over to my side an asked if she could do something and leaned in and kissed me like it was an anniversary kiss.

She replied both - We decided to go to dinner w/ the kids and talk at another point, The conversation was about mundane everyday things but I sensed by her eyes she might be genuine.

Dinner was fairly nice, It was probably the calmest point of the last 5 - 6mths - We talked laughed as a family and all the while even though I tried not making eye contact as much I caught W looking at me.

When we got in and got kids ready for bed and I took a shower, We talked for a bit after and she said that I didnt have to sleep downstairs anymore, That she was tired of hating me and realized she was still in love with me.

Told me that I would be the only man she ever loved, I figured it was time for a break for both of us and politely excused myself.

I came up around 11:00pm and we talked for a few more mins and I actually hemmed and hawed as to whether or not to sleep in the bed -She mentioned that I was the only man she will ever love, She actually also shed a few tears and I laid down next to her, Held her hand and she soon fell asleep.

I drifted but woke up and couldn't get back to sleep and after about 1hr I actually had to go downstairs.

What do I do now? How do I respond/ react?

I am still going to see the atty only b/c there is so much that has happened that I want to be prepared if it turns again.

Please any pros or anyone please if you could let me now how to proceed.

Thanks
3/29/07

I guess like they say when you least expect it, I made an appt w/ a highly regarded family law atty for today and I am still going to go through w/ it but............

Yesterday when I got home the thermostat gave up and D11 and I went to Home Depot to get one, Replaceed it and W was late so I asked the kids if they wanted to go to Friendly's and also thought it would be good bonding for us.

D11 called her mother and said what we were doing, W said she was getting gas and would be home, Kids dragged their feet and W pulled in, I tried to hide a little so she wouldn't feel forced to come and at that time I didn't think I wanted her too as I was resigning myself to the fact that things were moving forward.

After all last week - 2 days before I received paperwork I tried one last time to talk R/M but got papers in the mail 2 days later.

Anyway W kind of searched me out and all I said was that she owed me 1/2 for the thermostat, She followed me out to the car and said that she didn't want to ruin my time w/ the kids, Did I not want her to go? I said if she wanted to it was up to her and it wouldn't bother me.

She must have told the kids to wait in the house and was talking to me from the passenger side open window and looking like the person I knew back before this all began.

We were talking about some things when she asked what I would think if she said she made a mistake? I asked what about - Retaining an atty for S or the last 6 mths.

Then she walked over to my side an asked if she could do something and leaned in and kissed me like it was an anniversary kiss.

She replied both - We decided to go to dinner w/ the kids and talk at another point, The conversation was about mundane everyday things but I sensed by her eyes she might be genuine.

Dinner was fairly nice, It was probably the calmest point of the last 5 - 6mths - We talked laughed as a family and all the while even though I tried not making eye contact as much I caught W looking at me.

When we got in and got kids ready for bed and I took a shower, We talked for a bit after and she said that I didnt have to sleep downstairs anymore, That she was tired of hating me and realized she was still in love with me.

Told me that I would be the only man she ever loved, I figured it was time for a break for both of us and politely excused myself.

I came up around 11:00pm and we talked for a few more mins and I actually hemmed and hawed as to whether or not to sleep in the bed -She mentioned that I was the only man she will ever love, She actually also shed a few tears and I laid down next to her, Held her hand and she soon fell asleep.

I drifted but woke up and couldn't get back to sleep and after about 1hr I actually had to go downstairs.

What do I do now? How do I respond/ react?

I am still going to see the atty only b/c there is so much that has happened that I want to be prepared if it turns again.

Please any pros or anyone please if you could let me now how to proceed.

Thanks

Give in to W's Separation single choice

YES (0%, 0 Votes)

NO (100%, 1 Votes)

Total Votes: 1 Voting on this poll ends: 04/01/07 06:11 PM

File for D Plan B single choice

YES (0%, 0 Votes)

NO (100%, 1 Votes)

Total Votes: 1 Voting on this poll ends: 04/01/07 06:11 PM

Wait longer to see if fog clears single choice

YES (100%, 2 Votes)

NO (0%, 0 Votes)

Total Votes: 2 Voting on this poll ends: 04/01/07 06:11 PM

Wait to see if W files for D single choice

YES (100%, 1 Votes)

NO (0%, 0 Votes)

Total Votes: 1 Voting on this poll ends: 04/01/07 06:11 PM

forget the polls... go talk to your wife. gently. find out why she said that she "made a mistake", and ask her what she would like to do.


Ask her what has been going in in her life.

Listen to what she has to say.

Ask her what has changed, for her.


Think for a while on what that means to you, and where you would like to go with it.


-----

A marriage is not an internet democracy: it is a partnership of two people only.

PS: also, please edit and clean up your duped "3/27" vs "3/29" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

PS: GO BACK TO YOUR BED!

Techie,
I know it is probably silly concerning the poll, I moved out of the bed b/c of a stupid incident that goes against all MB principles in early Jan. I wanted W to feel safe and keep her from filing a RO which would have hurt all chances.

Right now even though she retained an atty for legal S I am still in the house. I did see a atty who only does family law and am trying to follow her advice.

First - I don't have to provide or answer to any requests from W or her atty for financial documents, Second continue to get and keep my life in check, Enroll in a program that deals w/ children and divorce to show that I want and can be a parent that deserves to have their kids as much as possible.

As far as her saying she made a mistake, I did ask her what did she mean, The last several months or retaining an atty and her reply was both.

I did listen, validated her feelings and said I was not angry that she did it, Hurt Yes and said unfortunately I cannot give in to a S, She was upset b/c she spent money on an atty and said that I know she cannot afford a D.

As far as the changes, She says she wants to know if she is staying for the right reasons, Not just financial or for the kids.
Last night after posting this I spoke w/ her again and she told me that - All I said was after her saying she still loved me, that I will be the only man she ever loves and the way that she kissed me I could sense she still has feelings.

Even though she backed away a little on Tues from what happened Mon night I also mentioned that if she really was ready to move on that her tears and emotions on Tues said more to me than her words.

I don't want to push her away, Feel I cannot make it easy for her to get the S, I mean if she really wants to be gone she will have to press on for D but I guess at this time I was wondering do I shake things up and file.

I do Love her and not for the wrong reasons like she says finances and kids, I want her to be a part of my life and I want to be a part of hers. I want to build the marriage we both talked about 14 yrs ago. After learning how a marriage shouldn't be I feel we can make it if we try.

I also asked last night, What would it hurt to try MC and if we needed to discuss individual issues we could incorporate that as well. At least we weould not be making this decision on our emotions and that S or D would always be there.

I just wish I knew, Like I said I have brought issues to this M but see where I went qrong and it hurts to not even get a true chance to help everyone heal.

I think you're making some of the same mistakes I did in my attempts to reconcile with my wife. So, here's some thoughts from me...

what does "move on" mean?? for a minute, i thought you were talking about her "moving on" to someone else?!?!

That wouldnt make sense to me, to be talking about separation, when she seems to be 180 degrees the opposite way right now.


Who brought up separation?? It didnt sound like she was in any state to be asking you about separation again. If you brought it up... dont do that again, if you care about your wife :-/


That shows that you are gearing up for divorce. Which implies that you WANT divorce. I suggest that you do things that show that you want to be together with your wife and family ONLY. Stop doing "divorce" things, until you absolutely have to.
No-one has filed anything. (or if they have, you need to update your .sig!!) So, you dont "have to" right now.

Stop preparing for divorce. Stop talking about divorce.
Prepare for being married ! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I messed things up with my wife, by pushing too hard. I suggest that you avoid that mistake.
I suggest that you try to encourage her positive feelings towards you, while they are there, and dont do ANYTHING to detract from them.

ask about what she would like to do.
maybe in context of "if last 6 months were a mistake, what would you have rather done instead?"

build on what she wants.

She gave you a huge, 8-foot-high banner invitation, "Come talk to me about reconciliation!"

sounds like you ignored the invitation. or at least, did not respond in the way she was hoping for. I think the most important thing in your situation, would be to find out what she would like to see in your marriage.

It would have been useful if you wrote what her REPLY was, to your suggestion of MC. I'm guessing it was not positive. If so, that means that was not what she was looking for, in her "invitation".

DG,
forget about the poll results, we cannot tell what you should do. At least not until you tell us what you want for yourself. Tell us what you want, tell us what you are willing to endure to get it, tell us what your requirements and constraints are.

Sounds like your efforts are starting to pay some dividends though so I see this as good news so long as you are prepared to do what is necessary to achieve your goals.

Techie and Gameface,
W retained an atty for legal S and received letter and blank net worth statement Wed 3/21 - Mon 3/26 she asked me what I would say if she said she thought she made a mistake.

But Tues was different, When I was trying to continue working to put the pieces back in place she said she thought maybe her emotions were all goofy b/c of her period.

At the end of the conversation she said if I loved her like I said I did, I would understand that she wants a S to find out if she wants to stay for the right reasons - I said I could not give in to S and I fear now that I am pushing her to file for a D.

She seemed to only do a 180 for about 12 hrs or less and although Tues was emotional and teary on her part, Wed and Thurs she was back to be quiet, cold and unfeeling and it tears me up. I was willing to give the 100% effort to her and her needs after our conversation late Mon night.

As far as moving on, I don't know if the EA I suspected, exposed and could and would forgive is active but moving on meant letting her go to find herself - I said I just cannot let her go with S and shared w/ her that the atty I saw said I was under no obligation to provide info to move in that direction. Reaffirmed my committment to her and our family.

I did not mention the program to my W and it was only advice that the atty I saw was to protect myself for visitation w/ my children b/c of some issues that I caused
DWI - 1999, 2006 and a report she filed in Jan when I totally let my emotions go and she thought of getting a RO.

She said last night when I initiated conversation that she was put off a little when I went back to sleep downstairs Mon night - I said the only reason I went back downstair s after she fell asleep was b/c after I fell asleep I woke after a 1/2 hr, it was really warm and somebody's car alarm was going off for over a 1/2 hr and I didn't want my restlessness to disturb her.

It was probably the wrong choice and I should have suffered a little bit and I am kicking myself for that.

What I want for myself is to remain married to my W and to build a new M and let the old one go, One thats comforting safe and supportive of each other and to remain a family and not to hurt our children by the pain of S or D.

She said on Tues that she is/ was always wanting to plese someone or not hurt them and I said to her that I was hurting again b/c I thought Mon was a step - Also that if she was worried about hurting people what would S do to our kids, Especially after her telling me she still loved me and that I was the only man she will ever love.

She is not one to show emotions very easy, And she also usually doesn't say things on the level she did just to say them and also mentioned to her that by her words and the way she kissed me I knew it wasn't an act.

Hope this helps thank you for your input - Wish I could get rid of the poll I feel stupid about that.

people dont get a restraining order over "emotions". What did you do ?


no-one is "pushed to file for a divorce" because you wont agree to a separation.

This is promising...sounds like she enjoys the affection of sleeping in the same bed. This is just a guess but she probably thinks you were mad at her or hurting...these are possible thoughts in her mind, not my interpretations: mad = you cannot forgive her mistakes; hurting = it would be better for DG if I just left, my mere rpesenc in bed with him causes him pain, I am a horrible person...

I totally understand about the restlessness, I take 25mg of Bendryl at bed time to help me sleep 6-7 hrs straight, 2-3 was norm before the drugs.


Ok so you are PlanAing, this will help you achieve your goals. Do you have IC or joint counseling with the Harleys? WW talking to the Harleys can also help her come to grips with her fears or guilt. Fear and guilt are big time hurdles for the WW. The Harleys can help you come up with a sales pitch to get your WW counseling with them. The one I used was, "Wouldn't it be great...Wouldn't it be great if you were in love with the father of your children?" I then said that I talked to Steve and thought he was interesting. I thought he was pro-marriage, but he is not, he is pro-happiness. I then asked if she would check him out and tell me what her thoughts about Steve were. This put her in the role of evaluating him rather than being judged by a MC and she was able to commit, she has spoke with Steve several times now.


This is understandable, but please be careful about "setting her straight" or "educating" her. What you are saying here is easily seen by the WW as a DJ. You could try focusing on admiring and reinforcing her desire to please/help people and express that is one of the reasons you value her companioship. Everyone knows how bad she is hurting you and your kids...no need to throw it in her face. Once you have both committed to the M, you will need to be radically honest, but you can also learn to express it in a way that does not feel like an AO or DJ to the WW.

My non-expert take on this is that you are actually starting to see results from your PlanAing. The key will be to be patient and inviting to your WW joining the process and avoid being impatient or demanding. The Harleys can help you with techniques and plans.

I let my emotions get the best of me, She kept refusing to work on our R/M and I tried to remove her from our bed at the time we were still slepping in the same room.

She followed through with a appearance in family court but didn;t go through with the R/O b/c she didnt want to keep me from the kids.

Immediately after that I got into IC and on antidepressants as many on here suggested when I strated writing in Dec and it helped.

I have shown no anger, Tried to live my life better and be the best father I could since then.

I was so humiliated and felt so defeated b/c of that night and up until then I was in daily contact w/ MIL and had her support in saving our M. From what I have been told most of her family is still hopeful we can work through everything but W says she will not discuss anything w/ them anymore.

She also got upset w/ me b/c I shared things with my MIL and says I betrayed her - I said to her that I only did b/c I care but that I was also very open and honest concerning things I brought to our M and was very honest w/ my MIL.

I get scared sometimes to say what happened concerniong the R/O situation b/c I know that it is not in anyones best interest to stay in that situation but I know I can and never would again let things go there, I am working on many things in my life and would do anything she asked to make her feel safe and comfortable.

Hadn't brough up counseling til last night in a long while, I do like your thoughts on her probable thought process.

When I called her Tues for lunch, The first thing I said was please don't read anything into me not slleping the night in our bed. I am now kicking myself for not suffering a little bit in that instance for the greater good.

I also let my mind wander, If she was still seeing OM I thought maybe she had an argument w/ him and I was her safety net, But in many ways I don't really believe anything is like it was although can't be sure.

Through all this I have always said no matter what it is/was that I could and would forgive.

I can also see your point concerning the way I may have said things being construed as LB's - When and if I thought they could be taken that way I would say I hope I am saying this right or I am not trying be a jerk - But maybe I shoud think things through better before speaking

I think these came from MrWondering, can;t remember but I review these daily or more often if necessary:
DOs

1. Act Happy
2. Get a life (new activities, etc.)
3. repeat over and over..."I will make it"
4. Actively LISTEN....keep conversations at "to the point...small talk" ...don't blow it up beyond the waywards current comfort zone
5. Tend to Agree (Thank you for your truthfulness, It seems that way, you have a point)
6. Expand your social relationships (Being especially aware of your own vulnerability and keeping sharing and time with opposite sex relationships to an absolute minimum)
7. Get sexy (gym, new clothes, etc)
8. Focus on your strengths and Positives...don't put yourself down verbally or constantly go over what you did wrong
9. Accept Uncertainty (Do your best today and let God take care of tommorrow)

DON'Ts

1. Repeatedly say "I love you"
2. Ask questions that don't have answers yet
3. Criticize, complain, whine or nag
4. Say, "I've changed"....allow the wayward spouse to simply judge your actions
5. Argue, Reason or Plead
6. Don't get family or friends overly involved in recovery (notice I said "in recovery", EXPOSURE to bust up an active affair IS ESSENTIAL and EXPOSURE to the OP's spouse is an absolute MUST)
7. Act helpless or depressed
8. Discuss morality, invoke God or Dr. Laura type babble
9. Suggest marital counseling (must be the waywards idea)
10. Tell them continually "we need to work on the relationship"
11. GIVE UP

if it were me, I would have apologised for leaving her, and mentioned how much I like sleeping next to [my wife].

I did and told her how I had been hoping for that chance again, And how much I regretted leaving like that and how much I miss it.

Just the same as Mon night before falling asleep I hugged her and told her how much I have missed her.

After getting the papers that Wed - I went into semi Plan B if you could call it that.

Spent the weekend at my mother's - Fri night took D11 w/ me but had limited contact w/ W for the whole weekend and Mon she came around like she did so I am wondering if she got to thinking about things and felt like she would miss things.

OK so stop TELLING her and start SHOWING her. Mrs GF thinks I am a good communicator, but I got a lot more mileage when I just shut up and listened. Executed and listened.

Ok - I will and I guess in a way it works out that I will have a chance to get a life, I am going to a hockey game in Buffalo with a friend and it is about 60 mi from here.

I will probably stay that night at his house after, So maybe it will give her a little space again after all that has transpired in the last week or so.

Maybe a break like this to breathe will be good, I did aske her if she minded, Didn't just say I was doing this so I am still taking her feelings and opinions into account.

????

What the heck are your priorities?

Do YOU need a break, from being nice to your wife?
If not, then don't go. At the very least, do not stay overnight.


Umm.. you're listening to what she is SAYING about her feelings. But I don't think you re actually doing what is best for her feelings, by going.

Maybe you should change your top subject line, to ask for female advice on this <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I have been thinking about that, It's just that the last time she came around was when I was away for a few days.
But believe me I have been seriously questioning whether or not it would be a wise thing to do

The last 2 days have been similiar to the last few months, Her hiding out, Not talking, Acting very aloof - It wasn't until I started moving forward that she came back around .

I just don't know, I was at a place and time before Mon where I was coming to grips w/ everything but now I feel like I was dragged back into the pain and misery of looking for crumbs like I was in Nov and Dec.