You don't understand the mindset of a WS. Logic and reason have no meaning in their lives. Once they choose to cross the boundaries in their marriage, all bets are off. They WILL NOT react to anything you do in a reasonable and predictable fashion.

They are too deep in the fog. Please understand that wonderful mothers will put their prized children on a shelf to seek out the addictive "hit" from the affair partner. People who have been pillars of their churches completely abandon God, or worse yet, twist religeon so drastically in their minds that they believe the affair partner is a "god-given" soulmate.

The are temporarily insane. Words directed to a wayward spouse is like tossing cotton balls at a crocodile. Worthless. You will not impact her with your words, however ingeniously crafted.

Purchase and read "Surviving an Affair", by Dr. Willard Harley. It will make the dynamics of affairs more clear to you. Read other posts, complete threads, and see that others are going through the same thing as you. More importantly, see the advice they are receiving. Marriage Builders has been around for a while. Many people have been helping others here for YEARS. Look at the registration dates and number of posts over in the far left column.

Melody Lane is a stalwart member of this online community, and is giving you sage advice. Those of us who have been here 3,4,5 year and more have seen the same scenarios play out over and over.

Cool your jets and re-read all the advice you've been given. Weekends are much slower than weekdays, as even betrayed spouses have chores to do around the house. Read and acquire the knowledge that is here. Digest and reflect upon that knowledge. None of this will be fixed in a few days, so a few days spent learning will not hurt you. You'll get more activity on your thread on during the workweek! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Snoop and collect any evidence you might find. Scour your credit card receipts, cash machine withdrawals, purchases, locations where the cards were used, and see what was bought. Purchase and install a voice activated recorder in a hidden place in your home. Purchase a keylogger and install it on your computer. The more evidence you have when you confront your W, the more difficult it will be for her to deny. And that's what they do, deny, deny, deny.

She will lie bold-faced to you unless you have said evidence. If you can afford it, hire a PI and get the whole sordid mess handed to you in a manilla envelope.

Go about all this in a cool, calculated manner. Going off in a scatterbrained, fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants fashion will cost you time and effort.

Please think about it, ok?

SD

Hi SD-
again thanks for that. I think as the sanity is slaowly coming I am beginninig to think of what thing can be done to attempt to save this marriage. Beleive me I have been reading all the posts from the veterans like ML, Mortman, CC, BobPure, LArry and many many others. This idea is sort of result from that.

I still think I am not getting my point/idea across here. here are the facts right now.

-She has told me all about the affair (nothing secret there).
-I also have collected all the proof
-I have told her that I wont be part of separation and divorce schemes (happened few days ago)
-This idea says that I have received an anonymous call from somebody that they say that my wife and this OM is involved in some sort of relationship and they have proof and this will have serious effect on my wife's career and these companies and that they would like to discuss this with me. It is a made up story which only creates (if any) a panic and fear in WS (not necessarily in OM). My point to her at that time will be is that this is the best time if any to end the affair becuase this is not only a disrespect to me and to the family to the kids but also can be very dangerous and she needs to get out of this situation. yes she will call OM and let him know but there is nothing they can do. This is a story just to cause paranoi in them. nothing else. not meant to expose anything. Exposing OM at his job is definitely next and that is coming. Again, I have proof of this now so even OM goes to HR (my wife works for herslef-independent) that will not do anything at the end of the day. I have not done anything I have only received an anonymous call and it has upset me and casued me hige alarm and I am explaining this to my wife

again this is purely to work on my Wife--on her psychy. to get in her head. based on old Mortman and PureBob posts.


but if you guys still think this is not good. I wont do it

Please stop with the silly games. You are not in a position where you have to hide, sneak, and play dishonest little kid games. That will get you nowhere. Threats are useless. What is effective is EXPOSURE. With YOUR NAME all over it so they KNOW FOR SURE it was you. You want to take FULL AND COMPLETE CREDIT for every exposure. Like a MAN, not a COCKROACH. You are not a COCKROACH. You are a MAN. The only one who has something to hide is OM, he is the only COCKROACH HERE.

What needs to happen is you need to start acting like a man instead of a criminal who has something to hide. "Anonymous" calls to snitch lines are worthless and are treated as such by any thinking person. Your cockamamie plan is nothing more than a way to avoid what needs to be done. If you want to be taken seriously, then you stop with the little games, and you send a letter to HR, WITH YOUR NAME ON IT LIKE A MAN, and tell them OM is having an affair with your wife. If it is worth doing, it is worth putting your NAME on it. This is not a childs game, trying, and you should stop this crap.

Excellent post, shatteredreams. thanks for hanging in there with him, and thanks for the vote of confidence. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Slow down my friend...there is no rush here and please consult with us before you take action as we can really help you with this.

SD is right...the WS will risk everything to continue feeding the addiction and the sooner you realize that your WW is not the person you once M the sooner you will realize what you are dealing with here. She will lie, lie, and lie to your face and anyone else for that matter who poses a threat to her A.

The WS is not a rational person in their state so reasoning or negotiating with them will not work,

So you tell her about this annonomys tip and she will talk to OM about it. The next thing that will happen is they will take their A deeper underground and make it harder for anyone to find out. It won't stop the A! My WW did the same thing.

Eventually she will find out you made up this story to try and force her to quit her A and that will only fuel her disrespect for you. Instead if you expose to all the relevant parties all at once she will be mad as ****** for a bit, but will realize you mean business and gain some respect for you as you were standing up for your M and family. That is ALWAYS the right thing to do.

Listen, I know this is not easy as I thought it was going to ruin my life when I exposed, but all that happened what that she became angry for awhile.

My WW tried to convince everyone I was a wacko, jealous husband too and that is why you need to take pre-emptinve action with the proof to back it up. What is the proof you have by the way?

So please slow down, gather the proof and prepare for expousre. We can help with this.

Why are you going through all these gymnastics to avoid REAL EXPOSURE? What are you afraid of?

You have all this power in your hands and you are refusing to help yourself and your children. WHY? Why are you helping the OM destroy your marriage and your family by keeping his secret? I have to ask: WHOSE SIDE ARE YOU ON?

Because I CAN'T TELL!

I am on my side but I am afraid--yes I admit. I have to be careful here becuase I keep thinking of my kids. The other option is an amicable divorce where she and I are friends and good parents. Please understand my state of mind too.

I wont do the ideas I was telling you about.

Impatieance is taking over and anxiety is tough. I am a very low point in my life. The roller coaster is unbearable.
Ok I will calm down here and retract. Now I have some work to do. I will have to explain why I called her late at night and text her to call me back ofcourse she never did. I think I can handle that but I think I just proved myself needy there. oh well a setback.

so now what, she comes back today. I will nice and cordial but as a matter of fact. she will bring apartment and divorce up and my answer is as before that I wont be part of that becuase "we can save the marriage"
how else can I act, what if she tries to draw me into discussions about what I said the other day and she is done and this can nver be reconciled and she does not want to talk to me. etc. etc. I guess tell me how I am supposed to act from here on

Hi HTW

I got all the emails between her and the OM

No, you are NOT thinking of your kids, you are thinking of your FEAR of angering your WW! WE are thinking of your kids. We are TRYING TO SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO HAVE AN AMICABLE DIVORCE! Is that not in the best interest of your KIDS?

You are not her "friend," you are her HUSBAND. Now, if you want an AMICABLE divorce, then continue to DO NOTHING but cater to your FEARS.

If you want a chance to save your marriage, then you are going to have to STOP helping the affairees DESTROY your marriage and STOP being afraid.

Appeasing folks who are he11bent on destroying your marriage for an affair will only help them be successful.

What do you mean she "comes back today?" Didn't she move out? Is she coming for a visit? What exactly?

ML-This weekend we have a lot of kids activities today and remember she has an extended stay place where she goes for "her"time. I was travelling for work pretty mych most of this last week so she was home with kids. I am sure when she comes back today she expects that I will be goen for the next few days at least at night and then she will move into an apartment early next week. we a aprty to go together and tomorrow.

so first of all I get your message very clearly and I AM NOT going to carry my idea.

second, again please understand, wthere is a big fact behind all that I caused her unhappiness last3-5 years. She was unhappy, depressive, could not sleep, sone time on ant anxiety and anti depressents. so that fact is there. and I recognize that I am working on that with a help of here and therapist. I know the fault and I WILL fix it. so I made her unhappy and she found happiness somewhere else.

As I read these posts I keep thinking that she has told me everything on the affair (most everything) and I went laong with her for the first few days and then drew the line or at least starting to draw the line. so in her mind it is all justified and I tell you while she is hiding some stuff she had not hid this at all like some other affairs. so while I read other posts and try to understand this is not a secret affair from me.

I want to save this marriage and I will do what is legally needed to do so.

please also keep in mind, I dont have 4-6 months for PLAN A. she is filing divorce on Tuesday. so the wheels are turning.

anyway-need some guidance on how I should act from here on

Today is the day you overcome your fear. Today is the day you decide you can and will do whatever it takes to be the H who stood up for his marriage. Today, you will begin working on your affair "acting" Oscar award.

Read up on Plan A, Emotional Needs, and LoveBusters. Begin doing all the things called for in Plan A. If there are things about you that have fallen short of being a good, caring, sharing, helpful and supportive H, then begin correcting those things today. If your WW has emotional needs that you haven't been meeting (admiration, respect, sexual fulfillment [oh, wait, there'll probably not be much of that for a while], conversation, etc), then begin working on meeting those needs today. If you are guilty of issuing Love Buster's (disrespectful judgements, angry outbursts, ect.) to your W, eliminate those from your actions.

About that Oscar. Even though you are dying inside, ACT as though all this is a matter of routine business, and add a loving touch. When you expose, expose from a position of LOVE. "Mother-in-law, I am coming to you to tell you your daughter is having an affair with _________. I am telling you this because I love her and want to do all I can to save our marriage. If you think you could influence her in any way to return to the marriage so we can work on our problems, I'm certain it would help."

Always expose from a position of love. Do not just scatter the news from a vindictive standpoint, or your efforts will fair. Expose to those people who are closest to you, your W and your marriage, those who can be most influential in suggesting to your W the affair is wrong, and she should give her marriage a chance. The MOST IMPORTANT PERSON to expose to is the OM's W.

Affairs thrive in secrecy. When exposed to the light of day, the fantasy world becomes difficult, embarrassing, complicated and hard work. Exposure is the number ONE thing you can do to bust the affair.

So gather yourself, and digest all this information, and put on your Oscar winning man-face, and prepare for battle. This will be a long, draining, rollercoaster ride, but if you truly love your wife, it is necessary, and it will be worth all the pain.

You ready for this?

SD

Ok, you will need to explain to her that you know she left for an adulterous affair and that you do not support her affair or this seperation. You will not be going to any hotel, you will not be leaving your bed. You will not discuss divorce or seperation.

What has happened here is that she has abandoned your family for an adulterous affair. This needs to be SAID, trying. Y'all need to STOP pretending like this is all COOL and acceptable! You are only feeding the fantasy by not saying what is really going on.

If she moves home and gives up her apt, she cannot carry on like a single woman. That would be profoundly disrespectful to you and the kids.

I don't understand why you think it is significant that she told you about this affair after she left. It is not. The only significant thing here is that she is under the illusion that she is ENTITLED to an affair while seperated. You seem to be under the same illusion, so this notion needs to be corrected with her. She is a married woman who is NOT entitled to an affair.

What she did not tell you is that this is WHY she left. She is lying about that and you need to let her know you know this now.


Yes, you do have 4-6 months for Plan A. First off, she has only TALKED about filing and secondly, it changes NOTHING in your plans.

And most importantly, if you don't get serious about exposure, this is probably all hopeless. That is your most potent weapon against this affair and if you don't use it, there is not much to be done here. You need to stop being afraid and get serious. This is not easy, we all know that, but half-assed measures will avail you nothing.

And lastly, you MUST get the book Surviving an Affair so you can understand the dynamics of an affair. I don't think you understand the mindset of a WW and that is holding you back. Much of what we tell you would make more sense if you had this knowledge.

THE LIE:

WW was "unhappy" for years and moved out and met a nice man and they are blissfully happy! <squeek!>

THE TRUTH:

WW has been carrying on a filthy, adulterous affair with OM and has abandoned her family to carry on filthy affair



The truth needs to GET OUT THERE, trying. Stop helping her give her affair a FALSE respectibility by supporting her LIE.

Thanks guys. I am waiting for BObPure and Mortman to slap me around also :-) and ofcource CC and Larry many others like you guys.

you ask the questions "are you ready for this" and I am not--this does not mean that I wont do it. I am just emotionally tired. few good things.
-got the meds yesterday so at least it is a remperory remedy from anxiety. Not proud of that fact but I need those.
-I will tell her what I think
-PLAN A is in progress. I have not criticiez her at all and given passing comments when she is looking good. supportive and everything, even she said that it looks like I am trying but in the very next breath she says but it is too late for this as she has moved on and she loves somebody else.

now she also tells me that this affiar could be temperory and she knows that-it could cause her pain and she knows that becuase logic in the past brought her unhappiness so she is going to be illogical and rash. She admits it openly to me. Please ponder on this point. she is admittingly doing wrong. This does change the psychy--does'nt it. does not mean she is justified but it cahnges the dynmamics and that is why I have fears and concerns and hesitation. This is unque than what I have read on these boards.
HELP if I should stay the course defined or I need to do a little different with this pshycy

btw, I did by the book survivying an affair and I have started to read it.

Cool, then she will have no problem when you expose all this to OM's workplace and every place else. Nothing unique, nothing different. You proceed in the same way. Her filthy, vile affair is hurtful and disrespectful to you and the children. Move forward.

trying65 - Please know this above all else. A wayward spouse will say and do ANYTHING, whatever it takes, to help themselves justify their affair. They will say and do anything to their spouse, that will instill fear, inaction, whatever, to keep you off-balance, and unable to act or react to her actions or words.

These posts are to help you see that you must break this cycle, and TAKE CHARGE. Empower yourself by taking actions that will make positive changes. Rather, you are taking the meek, stand by, wait and see approach, which Melody most eloquently stated is "enabling" the affair.

No one said this was easy. We're just saying there are certain things you HAVE to do, and overcoming the fear is first!

SD

This is not her first affair?

I think a big problem here is that she believes YOU CONDONE her affair because you are going along with all this by COOPERATING. Your cooperation only ENABLES HER. And that is what needs to change here, trying.

You don't cooperate with someone who is trying to destroy you, lest you end up ....destroyed. That is why it is a stupid to appease a WS.

by the way-should I tell her who the OM is. She never said it outright but because of the emails I know. also one thing was that she approached him not him. he just repsonded.

also is I tell her who the OM is then she is going to say how did you find out. and ofcourse I dont want snooping to come around so what is the roundabout answer for that.

I gotta run for the day. I'll look back in this evening when time allows.

I gots a feeling trying65 will be feeling a tingling in his testicles today, and will be making plans to man-up and get busy saving his marriage! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SD