I believe my W affair will probably be one of those that succeeds. I honestly thought originally that there were just too many things going against it but EVERY indication trends toward a "happily ever after" ending.<P>I had posted in my last thread that I thought that my wife's affair was going to be one of those 3% that actually make it. Izzy, my bud, picked up on that comment and questioned the origin of the statistic in his thread. Someone pointed out that Frank Pittman states in "Private Lies" that only 3% of affairees end up "happily ever after" long term. Normally, this would provide relief to the betrayees - considering that that means there is a 97% chance that their spouse's affair will eventually end.<P>However, the 3% statistic comes from somewhere...some of the affairs DO work. Therefore, I would like to start a club (membership is a dubious honor) that highlights those betrayed that feel deep in their heart that their spouse's affair just might be the "real deal" and end up permanent. I consider these to be those affairs that are way on the extreme end. This means, for example, that the affair did not end upon discovery (like most do), the spouse moves in with OP, spouse tells the world of marriage plans to OP, etc. You know...all the signs that the affair is just not a "fling".<P>I'm not trying to be defeatist or anything, I just wanted an opportunity for those individuals whose spouse is on the extreme end of the affair spectrum to be recognized.<P>I'll be the first member.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

Oh Shattered, I hope you are wrong and you get kicked out of that 3% club When you do, Your membership will still be good in the 97% club!

In "Private Lies" he also talks about what kind of affair the person is having . It seems that most of the betrayer affairs fit in the romantic affairs. In that case he said half of his patients ended in a divorce, only one fourth marry the OP and three-fourths end in divorce. He also say there is a greater likelihood that the betrayer will be back with the betrayed spouse in five years tjen for the second marriage to work. Just a little more statistics. Even after divorcehe goes onto say that if reality hadn't set in it does at that time. So don't give up hope unless you are ready to completely move on.<P>------------------<BR>di<P>

Shattered I'm glad you're well enough to post. I hope you read the responses to your other thread. There are some good reasons why you might not make the 3 per cent club. On that thread you'll see I already said I thought hat my wife and her OM expect to make me a member. <P>That being said I don't know the percentage of the 97% that don't work out which end up in reconcilliation.<P>There are always possibilities even in my case which I see as pretty hopeless. Maybe he's already had other affairs. Maybe he'll go bankrupt - almost did 3 times. There is always the complication of children. Unfortunately my kids are not adjusting well. <P>Also even though they both think that when I mention vows and commandments I'm told I live in the past, one day their consciences will return. I mention kids I'm told they just care about themselves and they will be fine ( must be true the Psychic says so). <P>Right now I'm listening to my lawyer, talking with mediators and mostly learning how to handle things from the posters here like yourself.<P>After reading your post yesterday my first thought was I've got to do something to change the direction of the divorce train, and then I thought maybe all I can do is speed it up. I have thought of writing a letter to the OM wife who might share it with his mother. The OM's mother despises him for what he has done to his own family, I just thought maybe she should discover that there are 2 families hurt by this. <P>What I'm trying to say is I don't see your wife and OM becoming part of the 3% unless she's going to become totaly unselfish. I'll grant you temporary membership OK?

Shattered, I am not quite ready to join a club like this yet.. I want to give my plan B a good shot. Maybe not 6-12 months like Harley suggests but at least some time. I asked my wife why she had not mentioned divorce. She paused, said she had given herself 6 months from moveout to make decisions. I guess that's good, shows she is not in a hurry to make a marriage decision, maybe she's not sure if its just a fling or not (p.s. our sex life was horrible for her in the last year, so she probably is not sure about the relationship and only sure about the emotional attachment/desire she feels.) As I leave plan A, I have left very positive impressions and this is really my only hope. Reality has not hit her yet, still in fantasy island. OM just met our daughter this past week (oh yeah it's great to hear my 3 yr old talk about him..) I was just stating that at this time my wife seems to be heading into a long affair; even though she has no support from family, and real friends of hers. She does from a couple of casual coworker friends (though I guess she puts some weight on their opinion because they support her). Already feeling good and positive about plan b next week, will hate not talking about our daughter but I have to go cold turkey.

Its me Mickey65:: Hey.. dont throw in the towel yet!! I believe the same thing.. I thought how my h and ow would be one of the 3 percent and would live happily ever after.. We were going to divorce,, my h moved in with ow, they leased an apt. together and everything... well guess what.. my h has been home for 4 months now and we are doing good.. still not a full recovery, but on our way.. Sometimes it takes time,, or more time,, I think they eventually see the op true colors... I recommend that you have your wife read chapt 13 of Private Lies,, and why marriages to op usually fail... It may not fail right away,, maybe yours will be one of the 12% that marry,,,...doesnt mean that it will be successful... 75% will divorce of that 12% and it usually happens quite early in the marriage... I think everyone at some point may think there spouses may be in the 3%... but there is so much going against them.. Marriage is difficult enough even under the best circumstances!!!

I think I am a candidate for this club. I have spent 3 years trying to restore my marriage, my W has spent 3 years planning to get out. The flux of this is the OM, I don't know if he will in fact leave his W or not. Either way, my W will not allow herself to come back to me. She is very good at never looking back, almost to the point of no concience regarding the pain she has caused. I think in her mind nobody has really suffered much and she has justified her behavior so much that she believes there is no going back..... I disagree.

Mkn: You may be right.. no one knows but I think those like your wife that seem to have no concious may have an easier time with it.. Its easy for her to continue the affair as long as she has both of you.. The hard part will be when they both give up their spouses and families for each other.. They have a lot going against them.. Has your wife lived with you the whole time..???

Hi Shattered,<BR> I'm sorry , I don't think you can become a member....first of all the OM already told your W he won't divorce his W....second of all it's been "only" 4mos(don't shoot me for the only, I know it seems like forever) and thirdly in Private Lies, he claims those that do succeed are those where the people in the affairs had horrible marriages (abuse ) and take the time to think things through carefully....so I don't think you are going to be accepted into this club......Lu

The 3% exists. My W and I are part of that 3%. we got there because it seems our spouses didn't beleive in meeting our needs and even after we were discovered, they chose to ignore us. The acted as if they were the only wounded and betrayed party. So they never did understand. We have been togehter and married 28 years now and we finally ran into a few bumps in the road last year (first time). So now we are trying to do what our ex's didn't. We are listening and trying to reach a reasonable compromnise so we can continue our future together. Let this be a lesson to all of the "betrayed" out there. Sometimes you betray your spouse first and don't even know it. Be careful and work at meeting your spouses needs before that OW or OM come along and do it for you.<P>FLip

mickey65,<BR>Yes we have lived together the whole time. Since she has definately said there is no hope for us and we put our house up for sale I have been trying to stay away as much as possible because I keep wantng to talk her back into staying and I also feel like a major loser. She is buying things for the house she is going to buy as soon as ours is sold. She has moved on and it kills me to be around her. As soon as the house is sold we will go our separate ways but as far as any regret on her part she has put that in the dumpster just like our marriage.

Come on now. You guys need to keep your chin up. Four months ago, I would have been elected president of this club. It's not over till it's over. <P>As cliche as it sounds, you have to give it time. Lots of time. I spent several months knowing my wife was with the OM so I understand your trauma. I also know there were several months that I didn't know. <P>Plan A until you can't give another drop of love. Then give a little more. Now is the time to work on you. <P>I spent quite a bit of time researching the threads of the past and found some very good words of encouragement. A poster by the name of HGBrawner (I think that was her user name) struck me with a very valuable quote. She said there comes a time when you have to give your spouse completly over to God and concentrate on yourself. <P>I found that all to often I was trying to circumvent God's ability to work on my wife by doing things my way. That doesn't mean you don't Plan A, it means you Plan A without manipulating. You Plan A and let God work the changes in your spouse. He will. If it is in His plan for your spouse to move on, then there is nothing you can do to prevent it. But, if it is in His plan to work huge changes in your and your spouse then He will allow this affair to continue for some time. <P>Don't give up too early. I have learned and still am to a large degree what patience really is. I have said it before and I remind you to read the story of Hosea in the Bible. God allowed Hosea's W to seek her own pleasures and forsake her family for some time. She finally crashed BIG TIME and Hosea was there to pick her up and restore her as his wife. <P>Guys/gals now is the time to work on you. You WILL be stonger through this. I can't say for sure if it will work out the way you want, but I will say YOU will be a better man (or woman) by surving this enormous life changing event. <P>My personality and my habits have been transformed by this. I am not the same man I was 10 months ago. My wife keeps wondering wjhen I will resort back to my old ways; the good news for her is that my old ways are so alien to me now I have no desire to be that man again.<P>Work on you. If/when your spouse returns, you aren't going to want your old marriage anyway, you're going to want and deserve a much better one. <P>Hang on; don't throw in the towel yet. Cling to hope until there is absolutley no hope left (you will know when that is). Don't confuse short term despair with lost hope.<P>God bless you guys, <P>SHA

I'm going to join the other 3% club. My wife's affair worked for me!!! That's right everyone, date tonight with a great lady and some friends for dancing and so forth. A whole winter of skiing every second weekend whether I want to or not!!! No discussions or begging, just tank up the Jeep and slap the boards on the roof! Plus indoor soccer. I may as well.<P>I hope my ex finds happiness. I wish her well, I miss her, and I still love her. I have resloved myself to the fact that in some way I always will. I especially hope the kids turn out with minimal scares from all of this. I do my best with them but it is at least as hard on them as all the books say. Maybe worse. At least my ex and I agreed right away that they weren't going to be in the middle of this. But other than all that things don't look too bad, really. I am living proof that even if your spouse doesn't come back, you really do get better. It really is possible to rebuild something of your life. And there really can be happiness after divorce! Its not all roses, don't get me wrong. Staying married would have been better. But it's not the end of the world either.<BR>