I have held back from commenting on the JustJilly situation because of my own conflicting thoughts on it I can understand both sides of the argument.

I do believe that Jilly is sincere in her spiritual journey. Others may believe that she is merely seeking to validate her affair marriage. Either way, she IS on a spiritual journey. If, indeed, she is seeking to validate her marriage, the fact that she is spending so much time in discourse regarding it indicates to me that the problems with and in her marriage are part of her journey.

I do not discount her pain from discovering her current husband's infidelity. Being betrayed by someone you love does hurt, even if you know they've betrayed before. We just don't think it will happen to us.

I DO wish that Jilly's discussion in regard to her affair marriage would move to another board, even though she is dealing with infidelity. I agree that this is too painful for many BS. However, Jilly and FH should do as they like. We do not have to read their threads.

That being said, I am tired of all the bickering and squabbling and finger-pointing among Christians. For the most part, it looks as if we are too busy trying to pluck specks out of the eyes of others while ignoring the logs in our own eyes.

Yes, we DO have differing interpretations of God's Word. Yes, we SHOULD express our beliefs...and BACK them up with scripture. AND, we should also study the scripture that others use to back up their beliefs. I do believe in Christian witnessing...telling people what we believe and why and what Christ has done for us.

So, how does publicly fighting with other Christians effectively witness for Christ?

Here is what I believe:

My faith teaches the "Priesthood of the Believer". What that means is simply this: While we can look to other Christians for advice and opiinions on what God intends, the ultimate responsibility for our souls lies with each of us.

According to my beliefs, in the long run, it does not matter what FH believes or what I believe or what anyone else believes Jilly should do. What matters is what GOD would have her do. We really cannot rely on what other Christians tell us to do, as we Christians are humans...and many times, we try to make the Bible fit OUR beliefs. So, I believe that Jilly should seek counsel from other Christians, but the main thing is that Jilly opens herself completely open to God's will in her life, as she studies and prays for His divine guidance. Then, once she is convicted of what God would have her do, she should just do it.

As a Christian, if Jilly is NOT truly following God's will, I believe that she will KNOW IT! She will not be truly happy and content. She will be bothered by the sin in her life...actually, I think she will be miserable. This will not be because God is unfair or unjust or a punishing God. It will be because He LOVES Jilly, as He loves each and everyone of us...and will do whatever is necessary to bring us HOME when the time comes. I think it is the utmost in TOUGH LOVE!

I do believe that, if Jilly truly puts God first in her life; then, if God does not want Jilly to remain married to her affair partner, she will literally HAVE to end the marriage or live in turmoil. Not because any other Christian told her to, but because God will tell her to do so. If God wants her to remain in the affair marriage, then Jilly will be able to find peace and contentment in knowing that she is following HIS will...and not someone else's.

So...I really think that for other Christians to tell Jilly, "You have got to divorce your affair husband!" or "You must stay married to your affair husband!"...well, I think that God can speak for Himself. And, if Jilly truly wants to know His will for her life, I think she should prayerfully humble herself before Him and seek His guidance. Without a bunch of other voices yelling at each other over her head, she might actually be able to HEAR God's still, quiet voice.

That is just MY opinion as a Christian, and that's all I really want to say about the subject.

The issue with JJ has little to do with religion. She is a FWS in an affair M. That is offensive to a lot of people on a site that has a lot of BS. It is that simple. I do not wish her any harm... I just don't want to have an A marriage in my face and certainly not in the face of people just now suffering as BS.

To say that Jilly and FH should "do as they like" ignores the point that many would not know what it was about until they have already read it and been harmed by it. Again ,it is that simple.

I agree with a lot of what you wrote.. but this bit, makes me cringe and I had to say something.


This is tantamount to the "if someone sincerely believes in XYZ, then that is what is 'right for them'".
Do you believe that if someone sincerely believes and is happy with following hare krishna, then that is what is right for them?
I dont think you do. So I would suggest that you reexamine your believe, above.
What doubly makes me cringe, is that you preface your statement with "as a Christian". that implies that all Christians should believe the same way as you do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

The definitive counter example of your statement, that proves it untrue:

The Inquisition.

There were many people involved in it, that were self-professed Christians, and were convinced they were following "God's will", in torturing people, and they were "truely happy and content" in believing that.

But they were WRONG.

It is not only acceptible, but practically mandatory, for one Christian to tell another, when they believe that the other Christian is doing something that is clearly wrong, according to biblical teaching.

It should certainly be done in a spirit of Love, not as yelling and anger. But it should be done. I believe we are commanded to do so, in fact?

Being sincere in what you believe, doesnt make your belief true.
Being content in what you believe, doesnt make your belief true.

I think that God can speak for Himself.

If only He would do that a bit louder and more clearly sometimes, we'd avoid a whole lot of trouble.

Until He does there will be doctrinal arguments between Christian factions. Like the "Life of Brian" but with the internet and converse trainers.

Thats why I commented in the JJ thread - Humanitarian reasons, not religious ones.

MEDC,

I agree that Jilly's marriage is offensive and painful to BS.

Where FH and Jilly post is not under our control, despite how much we would like to see it be somewhere besides an infidelity board.

With all due respect, Lady_Clueless, you are "picking at old news" needlessly.

There is NO current discussion with JustJilly that I am engaged with anywhere on MB.

The thread you refer to has been closed and no posting is permitted there, by me, JustJilly, or anyone else.

So just what IS the purpose of you keeping this issue "in the forefront" of opposing opinion?

Oh, dear! Here comes Techie with his word-twisting! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Agreed, Bob.

Sometimes, it is hard to hear what God is telling us over the noise, though!

The inquisition was a Church-run thing, with involvement up to very high levels in the church. Therefore, even though there were definately those involved who could not read the bible(being in Latin&greek), there were plenty of clergy involved, who COULD read it themselves, and had access to it.

Are you saying, that you believe the opposite, then?
That if someone is "sincere in what they believe", then it DOES make it true? Or that if someone is "content in what they believe", that it makes their belief true?

I agree wholeheartedly. And that was the basis, imho, of the strident opposition to my talking to JustJilly. But it was "hidden" in the guise of protecting others from potential hurt feelings. Those objectors sincerely believed that they were "defending the helpless," and in some respects they were. But the danger lies in who determines what is "appropriate" and what is "not appropriate" to be discussed and who "is" or "is not" worthy of help even if someone else might not like it. I submitted that is the "job" of the Moderators and the Administrators, others felt it was their job. A difference of opinion escalated to the point where the discussion of opposing viewpoints itself became offensive. Hence my decision to close the thread.




This is absolutely true. And it speaks to the issue I raised about forgiveness of sin, no matter how "disgusting" it is, or was, to anyone else. It speaks to talking with people who have accepted Jesus as their Lord and Savior and receiving from God TOTAL forgiveness of their sins. It speaks to the belief by some that regardless of God's forgiveness, THEY won't forgive and they hold that a "consequence" of the past sin is that the "offensiveness" of the original sin itself justifies denying ANYONE the right to talk with such a "sinner" in public. I see it, and our directive from God to reach out to the hurting and try to help them to be not "exclusive" of anyone, simply because others may have a very real dislike of the sin, even to the point of considering the person to be an "untouchable" in public merely because others "could, perhaps even would, be emotionally impacted because of their own current struggles and issues."

And for the record, I also agree with you that the Holy Spirit WILL convict a believer of sin in their life. That is one of His primary roles and one of the reasons He was promised to all believers, so that we can become conformed more and more to the image of Christ.

God bless.

I am replying to you again, because you seem to think that my words are negative, and offensive to what you believe. Please read on, for a different perspective.


First, let me see if I can correctly state your intent, before I reply to your words there.


You do not fully describe what the "implication" is that offends you so much; I infer that you believe that my statements on belief, vs truth, somehow attack belief in God, and the bible, so what I have written, offends you.

This is not so. My words do not attack belief in God, or the existance of God, in any way. Rather, my words are written as a caution, to not take someone's beliefs as truth, Just Because They Strongly Believe It.
Truth is truth, whether someone believes it or not.

"Being sincere in your belief that Christ died on the cross for us doesn't make your belief true."

This is exactly correct !!! my belief does not make it true.

Whether I believe it , or disbelieve it, or anything else I do, or think, does not change the truth of it one iota.
It is true, but simply because it is true, not because I believe it.

God Is.
Whether we all believe in Him, or do not believe in Him.