Early this week, after five months of therapy and cajoling my wife read a letter to me and our marriage counselor that was to revel the truth about her five year affair with a married man from Wash.D.C.

We both expected her to come clean on the obvious:

1. The thousands of cell phone calls each year to OM -- sometimes up to 12-14 per day.
2. The multiple (about six per year) midnight calls lasting 20-50 minutes to OM, always when I was out of town.
3. The 10 times each year that she met OM in NYC where he had an apartment.
4. Details of her one-time (she insists) sexual encounter with OM, which resulted in him unable to maintain an erection.
5. The emails and text messages (which I don't have), the obvious obsession she had with OM.
6. The multi=level deception: hiding cell phone bills from me, calling OM minutes after I left town on business, the flurry of calls to OM in early morning and at work after her partner left.

I expected candor. Instead what we heard was a two-or three paragraph explanation that the affair was over, it basically wasn't important and "nothing happened" when she and OM were together in an apartment with him unable to get a erection.

I was sputtering, I was so astonished. Marriage counselor, who wasn't much help, questioned her on how she could describe a five year affair as "not significant."

On the way home, she agreed that at the very least she was "probably obsessed" with OM. She agreed that she "guesses its true" that she initiated late night phone sex calls. But after that nothing. She shuts down and says things like "what do you want me to do? Make things up?"

She insists there was no sex, it was all a fantasy.

My view is that there was plenty of sex -- no couple stays together for five years making thousands of calls to one another unless there is a hefty sexual component.

I'm now back in full-blown depression over the whole thing and don't know whether to kick her out until she tells the truth. Or hire a lawyer. Or, I don't know.

I'm sort of numb and very confused.

arrange a lie detector test so she can convince you

see if she says "No way"

What does OM, or his wife, say?

And number 4, right. We all get that, at least for a while. No erection indeed. It is to laugh.

with prayers,

I did ask for hotel receipts for days she was obviously (from phone records) hooking up with OM. That was four months ago, and repeated three days ago.

So far, nothing.

My exwife lied every time on every detail. I told her I know everything ( and I did ) and she still would not tell the truth. It would have been funny if it was not me. I told her if she would not come clean right now I would file for divorce tomorrow. I also told her that if she came clean I still might divorce but I would give it a little more time so I could digest.

She still lied. I had emails, pictures of them together and yes even video of them having sex. I got the video because when I went out of town she had him at our house in my bed. The house and bed I had worked so hard to provide for her.

I set up an appointment to have a polygraph taken. I just wanted to know what it would take to get some honesty from her. She said she would take it and I told her I would pick her up and take her there. When I went to pick her up she was not home and wouldn't answer her cell phone.

My point to all of this is you know she is lying and I could not stay married to a liar and a cheater. My advice would be to require her to make ammends to you. Part of that is to admit to her sexual affair that you know she is having. You don't have an affair for that long and invest in another person and then say we did not have sex.

I wouldn't threaten her. I would tell her unless she comes with the truth you want her to take a polygraph. I can probably guess she will huff and puff and say she is not going to take the test. This means she is lying. If she was telling the truth she would but people that lie and cheat do not tell the truth.

Bottom line if you know she is lying and you can live with it then live with it. If you need the truth then I would expect her to prove her story or move on with my life with someone that is not going to cheat on you for years with some putz that can not even get it up ( I mean no disrespect to you it is just I hate scum guys that go after other mens wives).

I also had another thought. If the guy did have ED they have a lot of things like Viagra to help with that. It would make sense that this Romeo would have taken care of the problem if that was the problem the first time they saw each other? What do you think? Did you ask her? It is very easy to get a pill to take care of that problem.

Thanks, IHadEnough:

Your advice is spot on.

A few things, though. I truly am convinced that her five-year affair is over. I've checked her communication channels and there is nothing (although I suspect that at some point this guy will try and sneak back). My wife was mortified -- absolutely mortified-- that I had records of all her calls over last five years, plus some secret emails. (The calls at 12:15 a.m., lasting 33 minutes, were beauts. My question to her: what else was it but phone sex? "I guess so," she says, sheepishly.)

I need her to come clean and I like your idea of amends -- though not sure what that means, exactly. Before lie detecter test, I have asked her to produce receipts for nights she was in NYC. It's easy for me to tell when she was there from phone records of her hookups with OM. She says, almost cheerfully, that she would -- but then nothing. So I have to ask again, which puts her (and me) in a funk.

The other idea I had was I confronting OM's wife, the fancy Washington, D.C., doctor/psychologist. She what she knows about her husbands obsession with other men's wives, and his obsession with "getting some" 13-year-old bodies. That's right -- my wife told me he always talked about her as a 13 year old.

I think this guy is headed for one of the "Catch a Predator" episodes.

Last thing: I constantly think about throwing her out, ending it. But she appears remorseful, just not honest -- which has a way of being more irritating than anything.

Dude, if she's not coming clean now, and still doesn't realize that she needs to be honest with you -how are you EVER going to trust her again?

You'll just be closing your eyes and pretending not to see that she still lies to you and keep wondering when the next bombshell is going to land.

Not sure if you've seen this phrase before:

"Its not the affair that kills marriages, but the lies." -can't remember who coined that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

How important is this to you?
Is this the battle you must win at all costs?

Have you followed the marriage builders programs?
Did you do a Plan A to show your wife you can fix the issues in your marriage?

Or is this all about what she has to do for you now that she got caught?

Cuz I can guarantee that if you keep pushing her and she is uncommitted to your marriage -- you will push her too far.

I think her honesty will come. If you give it time, and make yourself a safe place. As ridiculous as this might sound to you, she doesn't trust you. Until you've built that kind of relationship with her she will not confide in you.

I disagree Lexxxy. Unless awhowe was the worst husband on the face of the planet, a woman who had a 5 year affair that she will barely acknowledge, just wants to move on, doesn't want to deal with it and so on is not the least bit remorseful or repentant. She is just sorry she got caught and her gig us up. She would do what I asked or she would hit the flippin curb after what she's done and is doing.

H&P
I totally agree.
She is not repentant or remorseful. Just wants to sweep it under the rug and forget it.
And if PUSHED...she will likely choose to BAIL rather than be browbeaten into a confession that she feels might be used against her in some way.
I do not think she feels SAFE in letting awhowe into her innermost thoughts, feelings, and secrets.

So maybe the marital environment could use some work before giving ultimatums about full disclosure.

FWIW, Although I don't know your d-day, I have to tell you that the dishonesty and lack of knowing the truth will eat away at you over the years. When BS have to deal with "not knowing'" we often fill in the blanks with the worst case senario over time.

This is the case with me, and I am now left with looking at my FWH and thinking "I don't really know this man.And if I don't know him, how could I possibly ever trust him."

This more than anything else has prevented us from a successful recovery.

Who

awhowe,

After 5 years of "fantasy", she could still be in withdrawal if it has been only 5 months since your Dday.

What if you tell her, "since I am not getting the straight skinny from you, I will get it from the OM"? Bluff or not, it would still get a response from her. Or expose to OM's wife and all others, your reasoning being you must get to the truth of the matter.

Does she truly LOVE you?

3 years out from my Dday and FWW now dispises OM and sees him as a total predator. Same guy who "understands me better than I understand myself" right after Dday.

So if she does truly love you, and you wish to stay together, then give it more time. Maybe she will come around, specially if she still is in withdrawal.

Does she realize she is using the Bill Clinton defense of deny...deny...deny?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

But then to the infidels Mr. Clinton is their God!

I told her I was going to contact OM's wife, the fancy phycologist. She was upset at first, now seems resigned to it.

She keeps claiming that she "didn't know what she was doing". Drives me crazy because how do you not know what you were doing for five years?

I look at all the things she did to me, too, during that time: marginalizing me, hiding phone bills, calling me when she after hooking up with him (I'm certain to make sure that I was home, feeding the dogs, staying put).

So the lies have a terrible grinding effect on me.

Unfortunately, now that you've warned your W of your plans, you've also given her the opportunity to spin a new story to match or counter whatever the OMW has to day. I would suggest following through with your warning and contact the OMW ASAP.