My question in a nutshell...Is TRUE TRUST ever really possible with your WS after an A?

My story...My WH is an over road trucker, has been for almost all the time we have been married. He is also an admitted workaholic, grew up poorer than most, so his whole focus is to "get ahead & make a better life for my family".
Unfortunately for his family, we have been left behind (no pun intended) He has problems with intimacy(go figure) with me, but is very loving, affectionate to our 2 daughters which of course at times drives me crazy. His first affair lasted over 11 months, she lived in another state of course and he saw her when he was "passing through". I eventually confronted him when his cell phone bill hit the $400 mark. He finally admitted it was true. Up until that time, I had uneasiness about things but he denied any involvement with another saying "when would I have the time, I am working all the time!" As far as our marriage was concerned, he just kept telling me it was due to our crazy schedules and not having much time together. (I was in nursing school fulltime plus raising the girls) After the initial shock of the first affair, I started coming here and reading all of Dr. Harley's books. It helped tremendously and after about a month, he ended it with the NC letter and we started to rebuild. Things were better, we were talking more (real true expressions of feelings not just surface talk)so I thought we were on the road to recovery.
Little did I know.... I graduated school, started working as an RN on nights. Working nights wasn't hard, it was sleeping during the day that took it's toll on us. I wasn't available to talk to during the day so he found new "friends", other truckers both male and female to talk to. Which isn't entirely a bad thing, except that one female in particular (yup you guessed it) became more than just a "friend". AGAIN! Only difference is, he totally hid this one from me!(He had another cell that was in her name, she paid the bills, so he never talked to her from HIS cell) I didn't find out about her until a few weeks ago because she called our house! She knew way too many intimate details of his life to be lying and when I confronted him, he admitted he had been involved in an EA/PA with her. He told me that he had ended it and she was now trying to get even by calling me to expose the A.
He denies wanting a "relationship" with this person, but she continues to call HIS cell & text message. (He gave back HER cell like 4 months ago) He says he doesn't answer her. At this point for me, it doesn't really matter it still all hurts & I don't believe anything he says whether it's the truth or not. When I asked WHY he had this A, in short, he said I was a b***h from working nights, never getting enough sleep & he just "DIDNT CARE about me anymore". That " you complained about me working all the time, even tho I was trying to get ahead for "US"." Gee, hate me for wanting to spend some time with my husband, I thought that's what married people do.
This brings me to my question...I never COMPLETELY regained total trust after the first A and even though he was trying hard to rebuild things with me, we slipped back into our old habits of not spending enough time together and not really truly "talking" about our feelings. So when things bothered him (like my working nights and being a major crab) he dropped hints instead of expressing true thoughts.
Now that A#2 has happened, will I ever be able to rebuild? He says that he doesn't know if he even wants to stay in the marriage because he doesn't think I will ever be able to trust him again and even if we do work it out, that it will "come back to haunt us 5,10,15 years from now if we get in a big fight or something else happen".
Right now we are basically in a modifed plan B, he is on the road, we only talk about "business type issues like the kids, bills, etc". He says his "focus" right now is WORK so we can reduce some of our debt (it accumulated with me in school) and his KIDS. Our marriage is on HOLD....
I am seeing a counselor, have been since last summer when I was unhappy and depressed and am also on antidepressants which help a lot. He saw the counselor once with me, but now "its too difficult" to go saying his schedule is too unpredictable.
I am struggling with what to do. I still love this man, even though he doesn't really meet my EN but I fear that I won't ever be able to trust him again, so what is really the point of trying to work it out?
Any help or advice from anyone who has been there would be greatly appreciated. Is there really hope?
Thanks for reading...I am sorry it was so long!

I'm sorry for what you are going thru..I really wish I can say that you will trust again..but from my personal experience, it is hard, and I always have that gut feeling every time any little things happens, that my H is lying and cheating again..so at least for me, NOPE I dont think I can trust my H again. I wish you luck and hope that you find some peace and help thru your conselor.

It is possible to trust again, if the person EARNS trust by demonstrating trustworthy behavior over a long period of time. Trust must be EARNED, it is not an entitlement. And with second affairs, it is very hard, that is for sure. But not impossible.

In your case, you shouldn't ever trust him if he is away from home at night. That is just an invitation for adultery. AS YOU CAN SEE. But if he is willing to quit his job, stay home, be accountable to you for all his time, then it is possible to trust again.

However, you should never blindly trust any person, especially a spouse. Lack of trust is not what causes marital problems.

IMO, trust can be rebuilt to an acceptable level after one affair. The fact that your H had 2 affairs (that you know of)makes it unlikely you will or should ever trust him again.
I have two suggestions for you if you do try...although I think you should send him packing for good.

1.post nuptual agreement ... you get all the assets in the event of another infidelity (or if he fails the polygraph).

2.polygraph exam... lie detector test...people with nothing to hide, hide nothing. I bet this test would be very telling for you.

Best of luck to you and I am sorry that you are going through this.

MEDC

What is HE willing to do to help you trust him again? That is the question. And of course you won't forget this. EVER. Does a rape victim ever forget getting raped? Of course not. That is consequence of adultery. If he works hard to redeem himself and repair the damage he has caused it is less likely it will come up again. But, you will never forget, to think otherwise would be silly.

I am thinking MEDC may be onto something here. I wonder if there are more. Would he be willing to take a lie detector test as MEDC suggests?

I really don't know if he would or not. Besides, is it really worth knowing if there are more? Isn't 2 enough?

I always found it amazing that someone who is so "unemotional and unaffectionate" would have the affair. If anything, I thought I would be the betrayer since he wasn't meeting my needs. He says that these women were understanding of his work ethics and his needs to "provide" for his family. Ya right! I bet any money if they were in MY shoes as his SO, they would want him home just as much as I did. In fact, he says that is why he broke off 2nd A, cuz she was pressuring him to divorce me to be with her.

As far as quitting his job trucking...he won't. He is self employed and has been his own boss for many years. Not to mention, he is quite business minded and makes good money at it, which is rare in trucking. He always says he wouldn't find a job at home where he could make the same kind of money. Believe me, we have had this "discussion" forever!!

Right now I am trying to decide if it is even worth trying to salvage anymore. Maybe he is right, that I will "bring up the past" in the future and who wants to constantly be reminded about their mistakes?

luluann - "Is TRUST ever possible with WS?

An interesting question.

Does your husband trust you?

On what basis should your husband trust you, or you trust your husband?

This is all about surrendering one's will to another.

Where is the model of such surrender in your lives?

There doesn't even appear to be much true repentance, true forgiveness, so why SHOULD there be any trust?


btw, the answer to your question is YES, trust is possible and inevitable for those who approach it the "right way."

So, his main concern is avoiding the consequences of his affairs?

As far as 2 affairs being enough, only you can answer that question. However, if you felt you COULD forgive 2 affairs, I would want to know if there were truly only 2. They may be the only ones you know about. I would need to know that.

However, that is all for naught if he refuses to stop doing the things that have created an environment that makes him vulnerable to an affair. If he refuses to stop traveling, you will always be dealing with this. He should NEVER spend another night away from home if he wants to avoid a repeat.

If that doesn't happen, it probably is hopeless. It has already happened TWICE, how much more proof do you need?

Dr. Harley:

One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her. The fact is that we are all wired for infidelity, and under certain conditions, we'll all do it. The way to protect your marriage from something that has been common to man (and women) for thousands of years is to recognize the threat, and do something to prevent it from happening. Basing a marriage on the Policy of Radical Honesty and the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward preventing an affair. Being each other's favorite leisure-time companions, and not being away from each other overnight are also important safety measures. Meeting each other's most important emotional needs, avoiding Love Busters and building an integrated lifestyle, free of secret second lives, are all ways to affair-proof your marriage. With these measures in place, we end up trusting our spouses because an affair becomes almost impossible to achieve.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5062_qa.html

Coping with Infidelity: Part 4
Overcoming Resentment

Dr. Harley:

When a couple spend their leisure-time away from each other, it is not only a breeding ground for an affair, but it can also be another clue to an affair. That's especially true when a spouse doesn't want the other to be present at their favorite activity. I counseled a man who went fishing every summer for a week with his friends, wives not invited. But they did invite a secretary from work who cooked their meals (and had sex with them all) during the trip.

Anything that takes one spouse away from the other overnight is an invitation for an affair. But when an opposite-sex co-worker tends to join a spouse on business trips, red flags should be flying in all directions. Any evidence that this relationship is anything more than pure business is, from my perspective, a gigantic clue that an affair might be in progress. That's also the case if a spouse and opposite-sex co-worker spend a great deal of time working together.


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Entire article: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

[quote]Dr. Harley:

One topic is loss of trust. How can a spouse ever trust an unfaithful partner again? My answer is that the spouse should never have been trusted in the first place. I shouldn't be trusted by my wife, and I shouldn't trust her.]


I understand the theory behind these statements...but aren't ALL relationships in our life built with some degree of entitled trust? If we didn't trust people in general, how would we ever have the ability to cope in this world? If and when I have to meet someone new, there will be a degree of mistrust or wariness, but at some point in time there HAS to be trust or the relationship will NEVER thrive IMO. Trusting someone means taking a risk that that person may hurt us. But isn't that better than never taking any risk at all? Because if we didn't take the risk, then we may never find love either.....

You are always taking a risk because it is always possible that you are being deceived but let's distinguish between the broad strokes of accepting just ANY behavior and hoping for the best and making an honest judgement that a person is demonstrating trustworthy behavior.