If ~~~sometimes~~~ the BS who cannot get his/her feet out of the quicksand no matter HOW MUCH GOOD ADVICE is given to him/her .... actually might be conflict-avoiding the outcome they secretly desire ???

They are really NOT wanting the broken marriage to survive.

Their main goal is to position his/her self as the victim/innocent ~after~ the divorce.

They do not want to take any action that could be construed as ~~~> THIS BS did THIS and THIS made the marriage end....

Perhaps they would have loved to end the marriage ~before~ discovery of the affair ... and now they are passivly allowing the marriage to unravel.

No intervention is their plan.

Sometimes I just wonder.... yanno?

Pep

A person can say a thousand times:

"I am tired of having my car stolen over and over."

however .... they don't remove the keys and they do not lock the door....

Pep

They cry out ....

"Stop stealing my car !"

But do not report the theft
do not lock the car
do not move the car to where the thief cannot find it ....

just wondering .... sometimes

Pep

I'm sure that is the case with some pep...
but I am equally as sure that most are too traumatized to get out of their own way...
we all respond to trauma differently and while some can make something emerge from the ashes...others are genuinely hurt and unable (not unwilling) to pick themselves back up.

I'm obviously not a "board vet", but sometimes I think this way myself. I'm conflicted as to whether my marriage should continue. I am driven by a sense of obligation to work on the marriage, for the children and for a sense of peace (I did all I could do...). But some days I wish the struggle was over- it would be a relief in a way. On these days, I catch myself sabotaging my husband's efforts, and have to force myself to stop.

Those are the bad days. I have good days too, thank God.

Yeppers, Peppers.

Some people love to stay in victim mode...it's easier there, they get to stay angry, too.

And I think it's not always an unconscious move, if that's what you are thinking. I think in their better moments this thought flashes on and off...then they turn it off so it never flashes again.

Gross immaturity comes to mind, or people so unable to look at their own faults, which absolutely has to be done in order to recover.



and I am not stalking you, even if it feels like I am <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I think all are genuinely, devastatingly hurt. I can't differentiate between unwilling and unable. Seems like if you are willing you are able, if your are unwilling you are unable.

I get indecisive though. And I get that some just really don't want to recover.

As most of us know from being around here, Pep, anything is "possible."

But I think the "problem" is deeper than some "secret desire" or thoughts that maybe the "grass might be greener" with someone else, or as a "single."

I think the problem is a lack of understanding of just what "forgiveness" means, and what the "forgiver" promises when they forgive someone.

It is often difficult to forgive when the thing being forgiven is seen as a huge personal hurt against their "self," especially when they don't see themselves has having an equally big, or bigger, "thing" to be forgiven of themselves. They see themselves as "sovereign" in the "forgiving business," which leads to a process of "unforgiveable sins," if you will, that they consider "too big" to be forgiven in their judgment.

Beyond that is the equal truth that in the arena of adultery, forgiveness of the sin itself does not mean that they MUST continue to live with the "forgiven one." They have a choice in the matter of remaining married or not. But without forgiveness preceeding the "choice," I personally find it very difficult to see how the marriage could be rebuilt into a genuine loving marriage of equals, because the one (the BS) would always see themselves as "better than" the one who sinned (the WS) against them.

It is the lack of true forgiveness that could easily lead to feelings in the FWS of "nothing I do is 'good enough'" and feelings in the BS of an "Ace in hole" to justify a "one upsmanship" position and, potentially, nuturing feelings of an "excuse" for a divorce that "makes them seem better than the FWS" in the eyes of Man.

Just my thoughts on your question.

God bless.

I guess I see it as not handling "rejection" very well.

It does feel like rejection when your W/H chooses to be with someone else. Even the choice of an affair is rejection. So, when someone hangs on and on without the benefit of doing what they need to do to aid in the recovery of the marriage, they are not focused on anything other than being rejected.

They would hang on to a putrid piece of garbage before they would let someone else take it away from them too. They don't want it, find no value in it, want to toss it, but NO ONE else is gonna take it from them. nosiree.

Humans...complicated creatures at times.

jmho
committed

Perhaps the following link might be helpful for those who are "stuck". It talks about being a victim vs being a martyr.

It's quite long, but worth reading the whole thing.

http://www.coping.org/relations/martyr.htm

The unwillingness to examine self and to own responsibility for one's life is not exclusive to the wayward spouse.

In my experience....

After d-day, I found MB and read it briefly. But it didn't make sense and I couldn't/wouldn't (don't know which) do it at the time...I just had the good sense not to post...clearly it "wasn't for me" and I was't going to waste anyone's time here if the concept didn't resonate with me.

I think it didn't resonate because I was SOO topsy-turvey; so thrown...nothing was making sense...I couldn't trust anything, let alone my instincts. I was barely making it through each day, not sleeping or eating...my emotions were just out of control, really. Quite scary, looking back.

It wasn't until *I* bottomed out that I could relate to MB. That may end up being my downfall...because I have given this a lot of thought and believe that going the MB route in the beginning would have definately led to recovery of my marriage...but I also wonder if I would have been as strong, personally.

HA! LS, strong??? poor choice of words...

I guess what I mean is that *I* might not have grown so much, or known what I was capable of surviving, if I hadn't bottomed out myself.

....rambling....

I personally believe that some people don't have the proper tools to take the advice and implement the advice given.

I also think some people are just adverse to change. They come here wanting everyone to agree with how bad it is for them. How their FWS should ........ to make it up.

They may be looking for the magic pill that makes everything better. They are not looking to rehab the injury they just want the quick cure.

Then there is also the person that has an answer in mind that is acceptable and they just keep asking the same question different ways trying to get the answer they want.

You can also have the BS that after the intitial shocke realizes they didn't have it so good pre A. Maybe worse the the WS or FWS but they know society says you should try to stay married so they give it a try.

Then there is your idea as well that might fit.

Well, I have a question due to this subject.

How do you handle a WS who says they want to work things out, but still talks to the OP and lies to the BS about it. How is that working things out?

I have admitted my faults and are and have been working to improve myself. I feel better about myself because of it, but at times I feel like I would be better off by myself. My WH says he wants to work things out, but he still is living on his own and I don't know for sure, but I think he is still talking to the OW.

How am I supposed to be encouraged to make things work, when he might be still talking to her? I am having great diffcultly with this. I need some advice. I want to make things work, but how long do I wait for him to decide what is important to him and why should I have to put myself through that.

Need some advice. Am I being stupid for thinking this way?

[color:"red"] FH[/color]


This seems really like a different topic to me FH.

I can/will forgive the adulterous (marriage thieves) eventually ... this does not explain a lack of protection plan or ~any~ evasive actions on the BS's part.

I do not see your connection to the topic I wish to discuss.

to be clear

I am NOT discussing forgiveness of sins... but LACK OF SELF PROTECTION

Pep

MEDC....

How can you tell if/when a BS is fatally traumatized to the point of not being able to come up with a self-protective plan ... or if this is a BS who really has no desire to save the marriage?

THIS is where I stumble....

thanks

Pep

Jambear,

If the affair is not completely ended on DDay and NC firmly, transparently established...

You work the plans. Plan A and then Plan B. How you handle things depends on what plan you are in. This is why there are plans, so you have a guide, so you call the shots (in your own mind) and this releases you from victim mode and puts you in the drivers seat.

If you are in plan A, you expect there to be contact and lying...you do not attempt or allow yourself to think you are in recovery if NC has not been firmly established and your WS is not doing everything they can do to show transparency to regain your trust.

If your WS is in the drivers seat and you are not working your plan...well of course you are confused.

That's my take anyway. Hopefully the others can provide more or better help.

[color:"red"] Saturn [/color]

this is typical for every betrayed .... to have doubts

but that is not my question!

I am wondering if some BS did not really want to stay ~before~ they discovered the adultery

it is normal to doubt the value of staying ~after~ discovery ....
WHAT DOES IT MEAN to sit on one's hands for a prolonged period of time and watch one's marriage be destroyed without taking a stand?

Pep

continuing ....

but never would admit this ....


???????????????????

Pep

Could be learned helplessness, too...after living a life of passivity or emotional abuse or a generational/cultural norm?

Just throwing stuff out to see what will stick...