... thinking.... be back

I doubt whether there are many people engaging in this forum who lack any desire to save their marriage. Why would they be here? Some are certainly ambivalent. There may even be a few who harbor an unconscious desire to end their marriage.

Most people come here hoping for a solution to the question, "How can I save my marriage?"

The fact that so many resist the advice given to them is more a reflection of the fact that in their emotional state, that advice often seems counterintuitive. For example, when it seems you are holding on to your wayward spouse by the merest thread, being told to expose the affair is frightening, since you can predict the wayward's anger with great accuracy.

no (I am at work and actually pretty busy, which may be why I cannot finish my thoughts effectively)

BS comes to MB in bad shape
wounded
bleeding out
suicidal
whatever

they slowly learn MB methods/plans by posters or by books
~after awhile~ they have an understanding of the basic MB methods/plans, etc

time passes (amount of time? I donno)

no confronting the WS
no exposure of A to outside world
no protection of money
no plan A behaviors
no steps to divorce

What does this mean?
What do they want?
What can I/we offer?

Pep

I can tell you from my own experience why I hesitated to act on some of these things.

Within days of registering on this forum, WAT heard my story and advised me immediately to secure my finances and see a lawyer.

Why did I wait two months to do this? Because in my mind, these were clear steps toward a divorce, a possibility that I did not want to acknowledge at the time.

I am asking because, I do not know the best way to post to certain betrayed.... I am at a loss.... and I figure if I understand what it is they WANT ... I can be of service.

And if I think what they really want is to wait and watch as the sand empties to the bottom of the hourglass I will stop trying to get them to do something else!

Pep

I see what you are questioning now, Pep...

I stop reading those threads...

Too frustrating for me at this time in my OWN RECOVERY...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Hiker

that helps me

I don't style myself as a vet on MB by any stretch of the imagination but I've wondered about many of the things implicit in your question, Pepper. In my short time out here, I’ve also noticed some people who seem to understand what they need to do, but they can’t bring themselves to kick-start the process of recovering their marriage. Some can be goaded into moving but some can’t.

Here’s my pet peeve. Some people seem to be trying or make motions leading one to think they’re about to, but then they disappear abruptly from the board. I’ve been wondering of late, just where to those hurting people suddenly go…and why? I pity them but if one cannot reach them, what is one to do?

I think your answer is that some people are inclined to be proactive and, even if overwhelmed, will go down fighting when they are wronged. Others will blissfully tell themselves nothing is wrong…so long as they don’t have to face it.

I think when you get down to it, it’s a matter of character. I think it’s the difference between the hardy pioneers who crossed the frightening expanse of the Great Plains in the 19th century and those who stayed behind and accepted crumbs as their due. I think it’s the difference in grabbing a weapon to protect yourself and your home from the burglar coming in the window, while others flee…and suffer huge loss. I think it’s why some people resist the enemy to the last full measure in a prisoner of war encampment, but others fall prey to the “Stockholm Principle” and come to sympathize with their captors.

To put it shortly, I think some people fight the wrongs done them and others simply turn away. Unfortunately, I also think there’s not a darn thing anyone else can do sometimes to pull those folks' feet out of the sand trap they’re in. Those who’ve disappeared from MB with their problems still trapping them simply give up…because it’s the easiest thing to do. Very sad.

(Edited to correct atrocious grammar.)

wow

RESILIENCE...

I KNOW HAVE IT...

I THINK IT CAN BE DEVELOPED, THOUGH....

Powerful post, Longhorn...

DOUBLE WOW!!!

[color:"red"]Longhorn [/color]

if I read you correctly

not so much they secretly desire a divorce

but simply that they cannot/willnot fight the affair (but they do NOT secretly desire a divorce)

interesting

helpful to me

Pep

We don't know what they are taking with them though that they have gained here. I like to think that somewhere, something has gotten through to them so that they can go on to have happy, meaningful, fulfilling lives.

I guess for me, I view everything from an angle of personal recovery, even though this is a marriage building site. I can't seem to take my focus off of personal recovery. It's what I "see" when I read a thread.

I leave most MB'ing to the experts here, and usually try to post to someone who I think needs to work a little on personal recovery.

Both are needed here.

I very seldom look at intent, because I believe we are all going through what we are going through for a reason and deserve the benefits entitled everyone here, even if they do have ulterior motives...well heck that can change, just like Frog said.

I don't like trolls though, so with them I look at intent.

(This part is in response to your initial questions)

I'm sure there are a few that fall under that category.
For sure,
there are always going to a broad range of persons here.

However,
I suspect that the number actually doing as you surmise .....is rather low.

I think fear of ________ (fill in the blank) is what paralysis soooo many into inaction.

************************************************************
Upon further reading however,
we get this: [and at least for me, a better understanding of what you were initially after]:


Now this one I'd say is probably on target for many who stand by and do little to stop an A OR save the M.
Heck its probably true for many BS in general!

Why would I say that?
Cause Many BS are just as UnHappy, just as Miserable, as disillusioned, as bored, as frustrated and as empty as Their WS is/was/or will be ........yet they don't get the Escape of an A.
They make a different choice ........usually to just Live With IT.

But then if your gonna go and give me (the unhappy BS) both the reason as well as the initiative (meaning Pain) to get moving (towards D) ---- well, it kinda makes sense to me.

And to those tooo afraid to get the D themselves (before knowing of the A),
Yep,
it probably is True that there are BS that were almost Relieved that the M is ending.....
Yet equally as happy that they didn't have to be the one to make it soooo.
Most likely Huge CAers.
Which unfortunately,
doesn't really bode well for them in the future ........as they are seemingly passengers in their own life.

[Sorry still haven't read the whole thread .....no Time ...Taxes ya know <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />]

Longhorn wrote:


Enough said, Longhorn, enough said.

I'm not a vet either, but I certainly bear the scars to speak from my personal experience on the subject. The opinions that suggest paralytic fear preventing the BS from sticking their hand into the hornet's nest are, in my opinion, one of the reasons we see the vanishing acts here. I'm reluctant to point a finger at someone as self-justifying or seeking martyrdom when they first arrive. I would suggest it is usually a process that comes with time, as the initial shock of the A is apparent in the fresh posts of a newly betrayed. How many would seek out the answers of an anonymous board to seek brief self-justification that they are saving the marriage? One has friends and family for that. I think it's unlikely a fresh victim arrives, posts a little to make them feel better, then disappears. It is far more likely that they do so, feeling there is a way out of the M or they are getting something they secretly desire, LATER in the game. It's a game they play with themselves that perverts their soul.

I know that the day I arrived here, I was confused, shocked, wondering. Upon D-day, I felt such powerful emotions at the rejection and betrayal that IF I had secretly found my way out of something I could not have accepted it as such then. Pride, hurt, pride may motivate those who do relish the realization of their secret desires, but I doubt even those are immune to some degree of devastation that comes with discovery.

We all have moved from stage to stage, phase to phase on this emotional rollercoaster. Angry, sad, indignant, depressed, shocked, destroyed inside. Dead but walking. Alive and burning.

How would those who find the answer to their marital problems in an A be immune to the same feelings, even if their time of pain is much shorter than others?

The true heros and heroines are those who rush back into the fire to rescue those who don't want to be saved - oblivious to pain - grateful that the posters here dusted them off and sent them right back in. Character? Indeed. I can see how those who walk away leave us shaking our heads.

If your new neighbor leaves a shade open, and you periodically see him/her playing the violin in front of that window, it's a natural thing to form an opinion about that person, based on what you've seen.

When people post here, they open a window to their lives, and they show you only what they wish for you to see.

In reality, we see only the tip of the iceberg.

When I first posted, I did not let on I had a ONS in the first 5 years of my marriage. It seemed irrevelant, was very personal, and frankly it was none of "your dam business". Then I learned about radical honesty and openness. I fessed up, so those posting to my "newbie" questions knew the whole story.

There are a few identifiable traits in new BS's that arrive here. Many, like I was, are stunned there was a place where someone whose life was impacted by infidelity could come and learn and grow and receive specific input on how to take the right steps to "save a marriage"

There are others who come in, ask for help, never say thanks, never acknowledge how helpful the site can be, and dissappear as abruptly as they came.

There are many who post once or twice, never to be seen or heard from again.

There are those that show up, take instant offense to advice they are given, write a parting shot, and vanish.

Of course, there is the occasional troll.

There are those that show up, hear and agree with all the advice, talk a great battle, and take little or no action to put what they've learned into place.

There are others who come with no clue what they'll be receiving, listen intently, clarify everything, and take immediate action, and go gangbusters in setting forth to make everything right in their personal lives, as well as their marraiges.

Everyone has varied reactions from their WS's and the success stories range from rather quick, to "normal", to some are still dragging on after a few years.

Yes, people use affairs to "give up" on a marriage that wasn't mutually satisfying in the first place. People stay in marriages for a multitude of reasons. First and foremost would be the kids. Second, money. Divorce can be unaffordable, or put a severe cramp in an acquired lifestyle. Third, maybe appearance to others; ie, guilt, shame, desire not to dissapoint parents, etc. Religion plays a large role in decision making for many. I am certain there are numerous other "reasons" people give up here, but stay in very dysfunctional marriages.

Pep, it's a valid question, however, I think the facets of a BS's life as they come in, and after they've experienced some of what's available here, coupled with their own personal baggage, make it impossible to determine one clear answer to your query.

Life is like a rainbow...there are too many colors to define.

SD

actually

my intention here is to HELP MY UNDERSTANDING

not to point fingers at any BS who does not "get it" right away

I really do not know how to approach some BS ... because what their needs are .... are unclear to me ....

so if you (anyone) think I am BS-bashing .... you are wrong


Pep

TO KNOW PEP..is to KNOW THIS...


Mimi, a PROCLAIMED LIFETIME MEMBER OF THE PEP FAN CLUB....

I echo what Hiker said. It took me even longer to acknowledge and do these things. I was in my own fog, so I misplaced my faith. When my WW looked me in the eye and told me things, I believed her. Our MC acted like she knew what she was doing, so I believed her. The BS has to get out of their own fog. Like LilSis said, I needed to bottom out. ("Oh...you guys responded to some of my early posts and told me WW was lying to me, and wow, you were right. Boy, don't I feel stupid now." But I am not a stupid guy.)

D-Day is such an incredible, mind-blowing shock to a BS. The pattern of WS behavior is so predictable that it becomes obvious and routine to the vets here, so much so that I wonder whether they have become numb to how hard it is for the BS to comprehend what's being told to them.

There may be people who have ulterior motives--not every marriage should be saved, after all. But the ones I really would like to help are those who were like me. The people for whom the signs are all there, but they just can't see them. I'm not really sure how to do it, though.

I think I am FORGETTING more and more what the EMOTIONAL EXPERIENCE was like..but that is a GOOD THING for me...

The best I can do though is share the knowledge so that I can continue to POST and at the same time move on with MY LIFE...

If WE FULLY REMEMBERED, I'm not sure that we could continue to visit MBers...

There does need to be a sense of EMOTIONAL DETACHMENT from that tragic time period in our lives...

Never crossed my mind. Brilliant topic, I commend you for starting it. It will certainly bring up a great deal of discussion that will be helpful when analyzing those who walk through the GQ II swinging door.

I'm not sure we'll be able to pinpoint an understanding of the motives of some who visit here. I've speculated on the subject in recent days, as some newly arrived BH's walked through the swinging door this past week that left me perplexed. I remember re-living some of their feelings while reading, I was disappointed to see them drop off the board.

I think that many of the guesses forwarded here are right on. Guilt, shame, embarrasment, confusion, disbelief in a system that is counterintuitive, succumbing to the surreality, inability to handle the tough love dished out to some who are in need of dishing it out themselves, FEAR, FEAR, FEAR. Longhorn struck a chord when he suggested some find it easier to exit than deal with the pain. I think many BS's NEED someone to grab them by the collar and let them know things I will forever be grateful learning/hearing from someone here:

This is by far the most noble thing I have ever done. I needed reminding of that, I contemplated "walking away" on even numbered days in the early period. I'm sure there are a few who don't have any friends/family/acquantices to talk to, and they may find that they make themselves feel better here. I'm sure that some leaving the board tuck tail when they don't do what everyone is begging them to do. (Back to shame)