See my signature for the background story.

Last nite the wife came back from her business trip - she was tired and passed out within one half hour of being home.

I snooped on her computer and found approximately 30 emails b/w her and the OM - he was at the conference! (She told me he was in the one in May)

I confronted her, and, needless to say, I LB'd big time - swearing, yelling, blaming, etc. I do not want to recap - I feel terrible for what I did - BUT she lied to me again (I guess I should not be shocked at this point).

I forwarded all the emails to her boss and to the OM so he knew I was on to him - then I sent an email to the OM saying stay away from my wife or I will contact yours (right now my brother is attempting to find his phone number so he can call the OMS and tell her - I cannot because I have the same area code as my wife, and if they have caller ID he would intercept)

I do not know what to do now. It is a REALLY weird situation because she no longer says she loves him, but that she has strong feelings for him. They had the opportunity for a PA but she did not try because she is still married to me (her words). I believe her because she wants a D or an S and knows if she slept with him, all things would be off - why would she say she didn't if something happened. She says all she wants to do is be alone. Not married. That is it - she does not want nor expect anything to happen with the OM - in fact, at the end of the conference, she told him they could not talk again, they hugged and left.

Also, she is convinced that she meeds to figure out herself - that working with a MC at the current time is a waste and that she needs IC first to understand what is going on. Does this make sense?

This seems REALLLY weird - I imagine she still is in a fog cause she says she has feelings for him, not for me, feelings can't change, blah blah blah.

Any advice on next step?

Nowwhat74

Well, she lied by omitting that he was at the conference. You never would have known if you hadn't snooped. So why would you believe anything else she says. I would assume a PA.

Also it was a mistake to tell him you would contact his wife. Now he has time to paint you as a crazy who is trying to make trouble.

The reason she is saying she wants to be alone is because she wants to keep a foot in both camps - the marriage, and with OM. She needs time to cement her relationship with him.

Hi, NW.

If she wants a divorce or separation, then agree to neither. If she files, you become a boat anchor. If she insists on a separation, then she moves out. You don't enable or facilitate her in any way.

Have you studied "Plan A" on this site?

As Believer said, assume the affair is/was physical.

Your wife obviously has issues with the marriage. What do you think those are?

God bless,
Gimble

Do not "threaten" to tell the OM's W. Contact her IMMEDIATELY and give her copies of all the e-mails. Do this today. Exposure to the OM's W is the most important exposure of all.

Do not believe anything your W tells you. Once they are wayward, they will say ANYTHING to justify, explain, hide, protect and sustain the affair. Your W is no different, they all do it. Always assume the worst.

Continue reading and learning. The knowledge you gain from learning will empower you to do what must be done to survive this.

Best wishes,
SD

Call was made today.


See, that is the weird thing - she DOESN'T want a relationship with him - he is married with 3 kids in Cleveland, we live in Chicago - she adamantly claims she does not want to live with we because she feels guilty living here because she does not have any feelings for me. In fact, when they left the conference, she told him they could not talk again.

Nowwhat74

Ok - will do.


Yes and I have read SAA twice. I started Plan A March 25th - it had been working - she even admitted things were getting better until this conference SNAFU. She is with her mom now deciding if fighting for our marriage is worth it for her - guess I will find out in a couple hours <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.


We lived seperate lives - she went off with family while I stayed how to study for CPA/watch movies/play video games.

She never told me it bothered her until recently - I have already changes those behaviors - NOT for her, but for myself.

Nowwhat74

Hi, NW.

Quote:
=======================================
See, that is the weird thing - she DOESN'T want a relationship with him - he is married with 3 kids in Cleveland, we live in Chicago - she adamantly claims she does not want to live with we because she feels guilty living here because she does not have any feelings for me. In fact, when they left the conference, she told him they could not talk again.
=======================================

Anytime a great mystery arises, there is almost always a simple explanation.

All cheaters lie. I suggest that the explanation of the mystery with your wife lies somewhere in the truth, which is being withheld from you.

God bless,
Gimble

Quick timing question - does withdrawl have to be complete and Plan A/Plan B be succesfull before implementing the 4 Rules of Marital Recovery? I would assume so since we do not currently have the capability to fix our marriage because she is in a fog still.

Nowwhat74

(Sorry - do not know how to quote multiple posts in the same reply <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> )

Hi, NW.

Quote:
==================================
We lived seperate lives - she went off with family while I stayed how to study for CPA/watch movies/play video games.
==================================

So she built a life apart from you.

Now she is traveling for business. Who is taking care of your child while she is away?

Quote:
==================================
...does withdrawl have to be complete and Plan A/Plan B be succesfull before implementing the 4 Rules of Marital Recovery?
==================================

What makes you think she is in withdrawal?

God bless,
Gimble

Well, this trip was an hour from home - she spent the night because they worked until 10:00 PM at night and were up at 4:00 AM - they all had roomates, too and hers was another coworker from her office - I can confirm WW and OM did not have the same room because of what their emails said.


She is acting foggy already - says she can deal with not calling him but her feelings will never change, then when I say if you do not talk to him for 6 months you still would feel the same, and she says probably not then says but my feelings for you could never change. Just a bunchh of rambling aand half truths - i.e., she could see her feelings change for him but NO WAY she could chnage her feelings for me because feelings don't change.

Nowwhat 74

Dilema -

We did the EN survey together - hers were:

1. Family Committment
2. Admiration (because of the respect - she is big into respect)
3. Open and Honest
4. Recreational Companionship
5. Affection

Here is the dilema - she feels she needs to go to IC to discover herself before we fix our marriage if she even wants to do that. However, if I insist we spend time together and improve our relations, she would find that disrespectful because I am imposing what I want and not letting her go to IC. SO what should take precedence?

Also, should we even bother going to MC yet - I have seen some people say yes, and I remember reading a Do's and Don'ts for Plan A, and one of the don'ts were Do NOT go to MC.

Thanks again for your help - you guys are helping me so much!

Nowwhat74

Hi, NW.

Counseling for you with one of the Harleys is a good idea. IC for her is likely prep for divorce, unless she has some major personal issues that need attention. Skip marriage counseling until you clearly understand your situation.

It is interesting that her number one need is Family Commitment, yet she fails to offer any. I do see that as a statement by her directed toward your lack of family commitment in the past. How are you addressing that, by actions or words? You also have to understand that she is going to use that as an excuse for her actions. So address it, but limit your comments about it around her.

It seems to me that she is very actively involved in an affair. I think you should get all of your facts together (snoop) and report back with the info. Until you know what you are up against, you are fighting a battle with an invisible enemy.

Another poster suggested that you not believe anything she says. It is well known that all cheaters lie. I don't think you are getting the whole picture from your wife.

God bless,
Gimble

She has major issues - I do not think she "knows" herself - like you said, she says she wants Family committment but does not give any, and OBVIOUSLY she is not open or honest <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. She has ZERO ability to communicate and thinks divorce is the BEST option for our son....

I think the problem I have is that the old W was very trustworthy, and I am in a bit of denial. I am also optimistic, because, in my mind, if she did not have doubts about leaving, she would have already...I need to picture her as the WW and not the W.


Completely addressed - I have not missed a gathering since March 8th - in fact, she commented that the changes I made are overwhelming to her.


It is an EA - I checked phone records, and she did not receive or make a call from him for the three weeks she said she did not. She also did not have any email contact that I saw, but I rarely get to see her email and I probably got "lucky" that I saw these emails as they were in her Deleted Items (she is not the most computer literate person - thanks god!)


I am starting to realize this now....

I will update you guys tonight after we have our Post D Day 2 talk...

Thanks again!

Nowwhat74

Update after the talk:

WW had no chace to talk to her mom, so she is still iffy on if she even wants to fight to save our marriage. This is SO strange - it is not following any of the stuff from the book - she realizes she has feelings for the OM, but when I pressed her and discussed withdrawl and what was going on, she said she does not think it will be hard not to talk to him - she already did it for 3 weeks, what is another 6, 10 or 30 weeks. Or forever for that matter. She admitted the old feelings came back when she saw him, but she told him NC as they departed - she will not see him again untli next year, if they are even both working there anymore.

She insists it is that she fell out of love with me and that she no longer wants to be married - she wants to live on her own. She never was able to live on her own - we started dating at 19, she lived with college roomies, then moved in with one of them after college until we were married, and then we moved in together.

I asked her if she thought it was a midlife crisis thing, never being able to experience single hood. She said why do I always have to put labels on things. I just thought to myself that after being married and having a kid, experimenting trying to be single would be a weird thing to do....

In the end, she said she would try - she will be going to IC, no MC until /if we get through "withdrawl", but, more importantly, she decides that saving the marriage is important.

We drew up a "Withdrawl contract" - all it did was essentially recap who should expect what - i.e. she needs to initiate physical contact for kissing and beyond, she needs 5 hours of alone time a week, we will spend 10+ hours of alone time a week, I will not discuss our status, she tells me if OM tries to contact her.

In addition, she will be sending the NC email tomorrow (do you think we should send one to the OM's house too?)

This is strange - it is almost as if this is more about a midlife crisis than the other guy - she told me today, again, that no PA happened because she did not want it to. I am so confused.

I actually feel worse than if it was a full blow EA - I do not think there will even be a "withdrawl" period - I am starting to think she just does not want to be with me.

It has been a rough day - I will update tomorrow.

Thanks all!

Nowwhat74

Breathe

If this is like most other cases of infidelity, you only know what you've been told, and likely, it's not the whole truth.

Breathe

All this is going to take a long time. Pace yourself, and learn all you can. It is important you purchase and read "Surviving an Affair", and continue to read all you can about infidelity from this website. Much of what is required from you is counterintuitive, so don't be hasty in making agreements with your WW before checking here. People here will guide you safely and efficiently through the marriage builders philosophy.

Breathe

Work on being a loving, caring husband, and continue doing the things you have changed or improved upon. Don't appear weak or needy. Put on a happy face, and show self=confidence, whether you feel it or not.

Snoop to whatever extent you can without getting caught. Scour credit card receipts, phone records, IM logs on the computer and e=mail. Check for gifts, cards, momentos, notes, phone numbers, etc. Affairees typically save stuff. They will leave clues, you just need to find them.

Remember, this is a marathon, not a sprint. And the bulk of the work to get things right will yours. Waywards are self entitled to the max, and will not likely do much to help your situation.

Best wishes,
SD

Hi, NW.

Make no mistake, this was an EA (if not a PA).

IF she is telling you at least partial truth, what appears to have happened is that the brief affair (assuming that it is over) has left her dissatisfied with the marriage and her life and wanting more.

Again, though, the truth is as yet, unknown. That will take time.

Now tell me what the "alone time" is all about, and why you aren't having "together time".

The reason she doesn't like labels is because she doesn't want to be guilty of what she has done. It is hard to be an adulterer if there is no definition for it. Infidelity is just that. I wouldn't avoid labels, but I wouldn't call her names.

In my opinion (warning, inflammatory remark here), there is no such thing as a "midlife crisis". That is just a label for an excuse for bad behavior and immaturity. Just because you wake up one day and don't like your life, isn't an excuse to destroy other people's lives in addition to your own.

As to the no-contact email, send a printed copy via regular post also. Then change your email address.

You can ask for passwords and all from your wife, but I don't think this is going to play out for more than a little while.

Make an appointment with the Harleys for yourself. Full blown affair or no, your wife is ready to walk, and you are going to need some professional help.

Make sure you are doing a full blown "Plan A" right now.

Hang in there.

Gimble

Update:

Found an email stating that they were moving along towards being together. That was the last starw.

Finally got a hold of the wife - she is recovery from cancer, and had a feeling he was doing something.

She confronted him, and he said he would work on their marriage. WW was not happy about the cancer or the working on their marriage.

She talked to her mom Monday night - decided she was going to file for D Tuesday.

I went to IC and made me realize I been pushing her too much.

I asked WW to not file and, instead, have her pick a bedroom in the house - if she wants alone time, she will go in the room.

Questions:

AT this point, do I let her get her alone time and not push for us spending time together? Or do I insist we go out and do things to create new memories.

I have made/bought several items to give her - most people tell me to NOT give them to her because the gifts will pressure her and right now she should not be pressured. What do you think?

Thanks again for your advice!

Nowwhat74

Hi, NW.

She is in an affair, and it is likely just to go further underground with the discovery.

You did good in exposing to the other man's wife.

You need to read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr. Harley and read all the articles on this site.

At the same time, you need to start on "Plan A" with your wife.

Immediately, stop all grabby, needy, desperate behaviors. Don't beg.

Your wife may threaten divorce, but you can't live in fear of that. Chances are, it is more bluff that substance. If she wants a divorce, then she can get one. You can't stop that, but you do NOT have to cooperate.

Her need for alone time is so that she can spend time unfettered in communication with other man. She may, in fact, want some time away from you. It is obvious that she does not want you meeting her needs right now. So meet the needs that she will let you meet and don't worry about the rest.

If communication between her and other man continues, then broaden your circle of exposure.

As for doing things together, you set up things to do, then invite her along. If she doesn't want to go, then you go anyway.

Don't engage in relationship talk with her. That includes divorce talk. If it comes up, then you can tell her that you have no intention of divorcing her at this point, so she will have to do it if she wants one.

If you want to give her the gifts, go ahead, just don't expect her to be grateful.

What you can expect for now is a lot of venom from her. Don't engage her when she tries to start a fight. She will be looking for any reason to make everything, your fault.

God bless,
Gimble

Already did both.


Already started - not working at all - she wants a seperate bed now - after seeing him this weekend her thoughts went from strong feelings to they are meant to be together. Said when we were holding hands, doing things and having fun that she was pretending. Man thathurts - I thought things were improving.


That is why I am scared to give gifts - she has already stated they make her uncomfortable because I have feelings for her and she does not for me - they serve as a reminder to her of this fact <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />


They are not communicating right now - she wants alone time to think things through and figure herself out. The OMW and I are talking daily - he is seeking therapy to fix their marriage. They have both promised us they were not talking - I know they lied before, but, unfortunately, I cannot stop her from talking to him and vice versa when they are at work or in car on the way home.


She wants an in house seperation - I brought up playing Cribbage Friday night then going out Saturday and she freaked out saying I thought we were trying an in house seperation. NO matter what I do I am wrong - VERY frustrating.


I try not to, but it is hard - the rules are changing everyday - she is writing up what she would like to do tonight - I will tell you what that is later.


See above - I am scared that it will come off as pushy/needy.

Thanks again Gimble - you are really helping.

I was thinking of buying DB tonight - is this book good to, or should I rely soley on SAA?

Thanks!

Nowwhat74

Wow. This guy is a real winner. Wife is recovering from cancer (which most agree you never really cure, you just contain) and they have 3 kids. If his conscience isn't eating him alive at this point, he needs to be tested for a heartbeat.

You are believing too much of what your wife says. She will lie like crazy and look you in the eye. Stop falling for it.

You thought she wasn't really into him, that the problem she had was with YOU. They love to do this litte reverse psychology on us BS's. They actually believe it too, they think 'Its not that I started an affair, its just that I dont love my hubby anymore'. It's all crap. Once the affair is dead, the rest of this nonsense goes with it.

A WS is like a hungry wolf, if you are too submissive she will just tear into you and lose respect for you. You can still be attractive and loving, but strong and firm as well. Showering her with gifts will just make her feel more empowered to rule over you.

Your situation is just like all of ours was. We always think our situation is different than all the rest, but it isn't. The only difference is that you are experiencing it firsthand unfortunately.