Let me reiterate. I do give me kids lots of attention and affection. I spend lots of time having fun and talking to them. I do this because I grew up in a home with little affection, praise, ILY, you are doing a good job so I know how it feels and I didn't want to repeat it. Also my dad didn't interact with us very much he stayed in the room watching T.v. and only came out to fuss or beat the crap out of us. I suppose you can tell I am very extoverted and my H is just as introverted as I am extroverted. My H doesn't kiss me much either unless I initiate it. My kids don't have that option. I try to let my H give as much input as he wants because I feel like they are his kids as much as they are mine.

I think my dad withdrew because my mom disrespected him. Anything he told us to do she told us to do the opposite.

I felt funny kiss my kids bobos because no one ever did that for me. I did it until it felt natural it didn't come easy but I am desperatly trying to break the cycle of dysfunction.

What are bobos?

scrapes or cuts

I don't know what's changed but my H ask me if I wanted to go to Home Depot with him. I said yes if that's ok with you. So I got the kids ready and we left. I am really happy he invited us along we had a good time. We got dinner and everything.


The only thing was the kids were being kids and running around and touching things and he said see this is why I don't take them anywhere. I said they are just being kids and he said that you are use to it and I said he could get use to it too if he did it more often. I told him I was really happy and thanked him for taking us out. I think I finally figured out why he doesn't interact with the older girls more often. He plays with them and then we he is tired and wants to quit they pressure him to play more and he feels like he can never satisfy them. The little one are ok with whatever you do and the oldest ones are always fussing and complaining. It takes more to please him so he just gives up.

Ok I have to say last night was really great after we put the kids to bed we went out together and pulled weeds and talked to one another. I told my H three times complete with hugs and kisses that I really appreciated him spending time with us and the last time he said see this is why I don't do stuff like that all I had to say was thank you. I then said I thought that's what you wanted because you said I never praise your efforts as much as I get on your case when you don't do something. He said just because I said that didn't mean that's what I wanted a thank you is fine.

Then today we were talking and he admitted he needed to be more involved with the kids and I was really happy because he rarly does admit his faults. I gave him a kiss and he told me that he doesn't really like contact and I said well I do and the kids need it as well and if he didn't like being around others why did he get married and have such a large family. He said it's not that he doesn't want to be around us it's just that we are there all the time. I said not really because he isn't really home that much and when he is here most of the time he is off by himself. Then he said that when he is not here he may not be around us but he is around other people. I told him he has way more free time than I do. Even when he is here the kids call me to do everything for them and he could be sitting right beside them.

I don;t know what to do or how to handle the fact that my H doesn't like much human contact.

Bump for Marsh or Mimi or anyone who can give me wise counsel

Have you said whether or not he showed any indication of being like this prior to your marriage..'cause YOU are not going to be able to change him...you may need to LEARN how to COPE with him..he will need to be MOTIVATED to change HIMSELF..by whatever means..individual therapy for himself??...but you can't FORCE him to do this..or FORCE him to want to change...

Does he recognized that it is not NORMAL for him to not want HUMAN CONTACT, particularly after PARTICIPATING in MAKING such a large family...

You guys sound so much like my wife and I several years ago. We're still working on it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Please forgive me if I am reading too much into this. I'm looking through my filter.

I get the feeling that he doesn't feel like he knows how to act, or the example he was given is what he's using. Or maybe he has given up the fight? Does a lot of it feel like a fight to him?

My father was gone all the time and fairly explosive without warning. My mother wasn't very affectionate. More critical actually. When dad was home, he wasn't really "there" either. I didn't learn much about affection and didn't feel like I could do any of it "right". Maybe he is similar.

My wife has been great in understanding this, after we finally realized. She's really helped me learn to be affectionate.


Sounds like a power struggle, rather than getting to an understanding of the actual concerns. What were his concerns? Safety? Image of having unruly children?

There are places where it's not a good idea to take kids. Home Depot is full of chemicals, sharp objects, heavy things. I believe if it had been presented like that, you might not have felt the need to defend. Sometimes, it's not ok for "kids to be kids". It can be dangerous.

Do your disagreements usually end in him withdrawing? Is there POJA, or one of you "winning"? Most relationships that are having trouble are loaded with disrespect, however subtle. Seems respect is a cornerstone in building a good one too. Does your husband feel like he's being heard? It will require you to step back and ask questions to gain understanding of his feelings/concerns. You don't have to agree to understand. I know this comment is about your parents. So often, we mimic them.


Did he feel like it was a dig at him? I'm guessing he clammed right up after that comment?

I'm guessing he is very concerned about breaking rules and doesn't? Doesn't rush to beat others to stand in line? Excuses other peoples bad behavior? Except for the kids? (Could be part explaination of the Home Depot incident too). Do you think his parents used guilt as a form of control?

I don't have a whole lot of answers yet either. I hope some of what I wrote might provide thoughts that lead to understanding.

Mirroring is a greate technique in communication. Fairly simple to understand. Sometimes not easy to implement in the heat of the moment. I know I need to practice more, until it becomes a habit.

Have you said whether or not he showed any indication of being like this prior to your marriage.

No I didn't Mimi but he didn't show any signs of this when we were dating. He was always around me always affectionate always sayin sweet things things to me. He has changed so much. How do I make him want to change?


Does he recognized that it is not NORMAL for him to not want HUMAN CONTACT, particularly after PARTICIPATING in MAKING such a large family...


I asked him this he said it's not that he doesn't want contact but he feels like they want constant contact. He obviously like some or we would not have SF almost everyday sometimes 2 or more times a day. I think maybe he is just more comfortable with the kind that is leading to something and since he know he can't get that from the kids he would rather not be overly involved. I don't know if that's why he doesn't interact with the older girls more or not.

His mom said until I came along he pretty much stayed to himself and he didn't talk to anyone on the phone but me. So I really don't know.

Quote:
the kids were being kids and running around and touching things and he said see this is why I don't take them anywhere. I said they are just being kids and he said that you are use to it and I said he could get use to it too if he did it more often

Sounds like a power struggle, rather than getting to an understanding of the actual concerns. What were his concerns? Safety? Image of having unruly children?

WS I understand this and I see how I could have better handled this situation I think it was more the unruly thing and what people think than their safety because we were in the flower section. But instead of trying to understand what he meant I tried to justify their behavior.




Do your disagreements usually end in him withdrawing? Is there POJA, or one of you "winning"? Most relationships that are having trouble are loaded with disrespect, however subtle. Seems respect is a cornerstone in building a good one too. Does your husband feel like he's being heard? It will require you to step back and ask questions to gain understanding of his feelings/concerns. You don't have to agree to understand. I know this comment is about your parents. So often, we mimic them.


I used to be like this always wanting to win but not I try and see his POV because I realize that my H opinion and feeling are just as important as mine.


I said he could get use to it too if he did it more often

Did he feel like it was a dig at him? I'm guessing he clammed right up after that comment?


No actually he didn't we ended up having a really pleasant evening. He knows me and he knows that I have more tolerence for the children because my childhood was way more hectic than his but I got use to it because is was involved and he can do the same. This is something we brought up in counseling.



I'm guessing he is very concerned about breaking rules and doesn't? Doesn't rush to beat others to stand in line? Excuses other peoples bad behavior? Except for the kids? (Could be part explaination of the Home Depot incident too). Do you think his parents used guilt as a form of control?

Was and still is. His parents came to stay with us for Thanksgiving and he wanted me to hide all the alcohol in the house and I told him I love him to death but I am not going to put on a show for his parents or anyone else. I told him we are grown and responsible and that his parents would understand and he got angry with me and said I don't ask for much but what I when I do this is what I get. I told him I love him and respect him but I am a grown woman and I am not going to feel uncomfortable in my own house because his parents were coming. I told his mom about this and she laughed she said she wouldn't care one way or another she knows we are grown and that we are good parents and we wouldn't do anything to endanger ourselves or the kids and she couldn't believe he was acting that way.

He believe everything always has to be in order and you always have to follow the rules and I don't I believe that sometimes you have to ask questions and even make decisions on rather listen to what others say you should do all the time. That is no way to live as far as I am concerned. I am not a follower. I don't want my kids to be either. The world has enough sheep.

Respectful request - Ask with the willingness to accept an outcome you didn't plan on.

Your post has sparked some conversation with DW and I. Almost like reliving our past. Seeing patterns that were hurtful to us. Wondering how our choices would be different knowing what we know now. I was very similar to your husband and she was similar to you, based on what you've posted.

As someone else has said, and we agree, it sounds like your husband needs to engage more with the family. I hope he's able to think of things he would enjoy doing with the whole family. Have you thought about asking him to plan a family outing? It doesn't have to be big. I'm curious to know how that is normally handled. I'm guessing you do everything when it comes to that sort of thing?

I think you need to make it easier for him to lead. Be willing to follow a bit.

Some previous questions I didn't catch or understand your answers to...

- Do your disagreements usually end in him withdrawing?
- Does your husband feel like he's being heard/understood by you?

- Do you understand why he wanted to hide the booze? Sounds like it was a big deal to him.
- Does he know you used his mother to validate your feelings, at his expense?
- Sounds to me like you think your husband is one of the "sheep". Do you?

What's up? How are you doing?

I was checking on you earlier today...

I think your H wants your kids to be more well behaved.

I don't think he dislikes human contact.

I think so to Mimi. He has been more involved with all of us and I really like it. I have been doing more to make him happy. I have my hair in a style he really likes. So much so when I did it today and put on my face and got dressed he asked me where I was going? He rarely does that. Also the thing with him not liking to be more affectionate with the older girls is this. You know how kids know exactly what to do to get you the maddest so they can feel powerful well because he always guarding his privates when they try and hug him then that's exactly what they want to do.

What do you think?

Oh and we are doing really well.I have been really working my a** off because he has been doing more to let me know that he appreciates all that I do and because of this he has been more happy as well. It's funny how that works. All it takes is one person who is willing to give to make things better. I saw in someone else post that Dr. Phil said that a man needs to feel the need to compete and I have to say since my H saw that someone else was interested in me and that was in him as well to get us going in the right direction. So he does make sense sometimes. LOL

Mary,

Tell your girls that it is completely inappropriate to touch their father there.

For God's sake, tell them, NO!

~ Marsh

Trust me I talk to them about not touching anyone like that or letting anyone touch them like that all the time. The way they do it, it could be accidental. I think my H is just overly sensitive. I think he thinks it's not but I have watched them and I think it could be.

Marsh nice to see you where have you been hiding?

And why is it OBVIOUS to little girls that he is GUARDING HIS PRIVATES???

Is he actually SAYING "Don't touch me there?"

This seems odd to me...too SEXUALIZED..almost like a hangup or something...


So what if they ACCIDENTALLY touch his privates?

Would he become AROUSED??

I don't know I think our oldest daughter freaks him out. He thinks she is a pervert. She is just really touchy feely and it creeps him out. For the record I have been abused and if I thought anyone and I do mean anyone would touch one of my kids in that way I would kill them dead I don't care how I feel about the offender I am a mother bear when it comes to my cubs you feel me? I know my H and I trust him with my kids life's I know he wouldn't do anything to purposely hurt them no more than I would. He is very over protective of me and them.

Also because of my abuse I have read all I could about the signs of sexual abuse so I am fairly certain I would notice some of the signs if my children showed any.

My H's father ruled with an iron thumb so his kids were pretty much ruly but my H doesn't disipline the kids much because he had issues with his dad so I told him he can't expect our kids to act like they did growing up because we are not raising them like his dad did to him and his brothers.

Mary,

Do you and your H say "no" to your children?

I'm not talking about telling them what not to allow others to do TO them...but rather tell them what they shouldn't do to others?

"No, DD, don't touch your father like that. Hug him respectfully, like this....(demonstrate a proper hug)"

If your H thinks his EIGHT year old is a pervert...it sounds as though you need to get some better boundaries set up.

Yikes, Mary!

I understand all about wanting to do it differently than our parents did, but we don't need to throw the baby out w/ the bath water....

~ Marsh

PS: It's good to see you too, Mary. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />