We tell them no but I know we should try and set up better boundaires. My H and I are both very stubborn and our kids are a lot like us. They are all very strong willed. They would rather do what they want and get in trouble than not have their way. They are all pretty much like that. If I could get them to use their powers for good then we would be alright. I will try and demonstrate a proper hug for them that sounds like a really good idea.

I also think I need to work on being presistent with them since I am the one doing most of the dicipline I am not as firm as I should be sometimes that's why I want my H to back me up. Women are nurturers and men are supposed to be the law of the family. I think I need to step back more so he will feel comfortable taking the lead as far as they are concerned.

I forgot to mention this. When he does correct them I try and make a united front but I think he sees this as me stepping on his toes because when I do it he says I got this..

I really suggest that you talk to your counselor about how your own sexual abuse is affecting the parenting of your children. In a NORMAL FATHER-DAUGHTER relationship SEXUALITY is NOT AN ISSUE. I recommend that you get PROFESSIONAL HELP with this for your daughter's sake. It is a serious problem for your H to be viewing his young daughter as being a PERVERT. This really, really bothers me, DIG.

It also seems that you and your H need help on parenting as a TEAM. Both of your points of view need to be considered.

I think all of this is more that can be handled on this FORUM.

Please seek PROFESSIONAL HELP with these issues ASAP.

What's a PROPER HUG?

Your daughter is ONLY 8 YEARS OLD.

She shouldn't be worried about HOW TO HUG HER OWN FATHER, IMO.

She shouldn't be worried about HOW TO HUG HER OWN FATHER, IMO.


Ok I see your point of view regarding this. I know she shouldn't have to feel like she has to hug her dad a certain way.

It is a serious problem for your H to be viewing his young daughter as being a PERVERT. This really, really bothers me, DIG.

This right here is I already said that my DD is touchy feely and because my H's doesn't like the constant stimulation it bothers him and that's why he feels the way he does. He doesn't like when I touch him much either if he doesn't want to be touched. He says I have monkey hands because I am always picking at him in some way. I hate seeing lint on people.


I really suggest that you talk to your counselor about how your own sexual abuse is affecting the parenting of your children.

I have talked about my issues with the Dr concerning this and I have to say because of it that I deal a lot better with my kids. It's not me. I have dealt with my issues and concerns on this topic. I think my H because he was a loner and liked to stay to himself growing up because he didn't see his parents often because they worked so much that he is just not use to always having someone around him. She is just a very emotional child and my H does not know how to handle it so when he feel like someone is being invasive he withdraws.

I think you are reading more into our sitch than what is there. I know my H would benefit greatly from counseling as I have but I can't make him go to IC. ****** I had a hard enough time trying to get him to MC.

Ok Mimi my H and I had a long talk last night. I have to say he is so much more open then he has been in a long time. I really love this site. I have gotten so much help here to learn how to help my M I can't thank you all enough.

DIG: Ok H I would like you to tell me what you think of our children.

H: The good, the bad or the ugly.

DIG: Everything. Let's start with DD8

H: Ok I think she feels very entitled and she thinks she can have what ever she wants, and she thinks she is smarter than everyone else.

DIG: Now the good.

H: I think she is very smart.

DIG: Is that it?

H: That's all I can think of.

DIG: Well I think I agree with you on her attitude. He need to fix that. However I think she is very smart as well as creative as well as helpful.

H: Well I think that all counts as being smart. However I think for the most part she is helpful when she wants something. I saw her cleaning up the breakfast area yesterday. What did she want.

DIG: Nothing she was just being helpful and I thanked her for helping without being asked to and told her she did a good job. Ok what about DD6?

H: Well I think she is very sweet, and smart but she also can be very arguementive when she feels defensive. I think she plays well with the little ones but she feels the need to compete with DD8

DIG: I agree with that as well. I think she reminds me of me when I was little. Whenever I felt under attack I would attack back. I think DD8 makes her feel bad because I think she is just as smart if not smarter than her and she thinks since she is the oldest that she should know more than her. That's why whenever I see them being mean to one another I make them apologize and tell the other I think you are a great person. Ok what about your son?

H: I think he is smart as well but he goes around and tries to assert his will because he is the only boy and he doesn't like to be babied.

DIG: Yeah I also think he is very funny. How about I think he really likes those zoo pal plates. He was sitting at the table after he finished eating and started playing around with it singing the zoo pal song. I thought the was so cute. ( We both laughed). I think he has a temper as well as being strongwilled like the others.

H: Yes I agree with that.

DIG: Ok what about the baby?

H: I think she is a trip already. She is so sweet and cute but you can tell she has a mind of her own. I saw her wrestling with the boy for his computer today and she took it and walked away, then when he came and took it from her she came crying to me because she wanted me to give it back.

DIG: Yes they both do that to each other. I think they are picking up where DD8 & DD6 left off. She really is a sweet baby but boy since she started walking she works me to death. She is always into something.

H: Yeah she use to let you hold her and play with her all the time now she only sits with me for a few seconds and she is off again.

DIG: They grow up really fast. I makes me happy and sad all at the same time. Ok tell me why you think DD8 is a perv.

H: I don't really think she is a perv I think she sees things on the T.V. that aren't appropriate. I want you to watch ELR and A 2 J after you TIVO it, because not only do they talk about and do adult things on the shows but during the commercial breaks they show all kinds of sexual and violent things and that's when she wants to sit up and rub my back and it freaks me out.

DIG: Ok I can definitely see your point and I will not watch those shows while they are around. They don't need the negative influences they already have a lot to deal with. However you know we can't protect them from everything. If we do and then send them out into the world they would be eatten alive. Also if they make you uncomfortable when they hug you why don't you try getting down on one knee and hugging them?

H: That sounds like a good idea and I would love to try that but I have to make it in the door first and put my bag down before you guys bumrush me. Unless you want me to ice skate through the front door on my knees when I get home.

(I laugh and then) DIG: You are to silly ok I will try to let you get in the door first before we pounce. Do you think we are doing a good job with our children? What do you think we need to do more of or less of?

H: Yes I think we are doing a good but I think they need to interact with more children than just the girl next door because she teaches them the wrong things.

DIG: I agree with that. You know they were play fighting again after I told them not to? Then W had the nerve to come and try and tell on DD6 because she was crying because they were doing that and she didn't like it like she was the one doing something wrong. I said well if she is crying that must mean that she doesn't like the way you are playing with her so don't play with her that way. If she was doing something to you that made you cry would you would you want her to stop or keep doing it and she said I would want her to stop and I said ok then you know how she feels. Then they went back to finish playing.

H: Yeah that's why I want them to play with more then just them so they can see that all kids are not like them.

DIG: Ok what about the way the amount of time we interact with them. What do you like to do with them and do you think it would benefit them to do it more often?

H: Well I don't really know what I like to do with them.

DIG: Well I know they like to wash the car with you because they always ask when can we wash the car again? and I reply I don't know we will see. Or how about playing on the computer with them since you all like doing that? That's why I ask you to read to them since I know they like that.

H: I don't know. I will see. However I am not promising anything because I have a lot of stuff to do.

DIG: I understand that but I think they would greatly benefit just by you showing an interest in them and the things they like to do. I know I really like it when you show an inrest in the things that interest me.

H: Well what about all the things we have been doing together on the weekend?

DIG: I know you have been really trying and I know the kids appreciate that as well as I. However I am talking about more time with them during the week. You do well with the little ones but you don't really do anything with the big ones. They notice that you don't play with like you do with the little ones. I don't want them to think that because you don't play with them like that that there is something wrong with them.

H: I know but that's why I don't move when the lay on me when I am sitting on the couch. I don't want them to think I don't like them or that something is wrong them. I don't mind all the time but sometimes they come and lay on my arms when I am trying to working and I can't move and it fustrates me.

DIG: I know what you mean they can be a little inconsiderate at times. Maybe when you are working and they lay on you, you can say I am working right now and and need to be able to move my arms so I can't have you lay on me right now, but I will spend sometime with you when I am done.

H: Ok DIG I will try that.

Then I ask how did you feel growing up and your parents didn't attend the things you liked but went to your brothers events?

H: I didn't really bother me.

DIG: Well know it bothers the girls and I know if you showed a little more interest in them they would behave a lot better.

H: So you think if I do more things with them they would behave all the time?

DIG: I didn't say that but I know it would help a whole lot. Do you remember how MC said that a little interest goes a long way. I don't think it will take much just enough to let them know you care. This is why I feel like a single parent where the girls are concerned because most of the things that go on with them it is just me. They like going out to eat and they feel suprised when you come because when you do they are like daddy's coming? They are not use to you participating.

H: Ok I will do more things with them.

DIG: I know you are uncomfortable expressing you feelings at times but I grew up with a dad that stayed in his room
most of the time and didn't really spend any time with us and when he did come out it was to fuss at us because we were making to much noise. I thought something was wrong with me. That I wasn't good enough. I don't want my kids to feel the way I did growing up. I thought no one cared about me. I thought the way you get people to love you was to have sex with them and I started having sex before I was ready to because I thought if I did it good enough that I could make someone love me. I thought this was why my daddy didn't love mem because I couldn't have sex with him.
I don't want my kids to think like that. I know they are not me but do know how important a relationship with daddy is to a daughter. It's like I know that my parents were hurt a lot in their lives and that they did the best they knew how to do, but at the same time I feel like they could have tried to learn from that pain and did a better job a being better parents instead being stuck in that horrible place and not getting the help they needed so they could do better for us like I am doing with our children. It's like they treated me like crap my whole life until I met you and started doing well now they come to me and expect me to drop everything I am doing to come to their aid when I couldn't count on the to do a d)amn thing for me. Until I met you I never felt safe. I felt like the only person I could count on to take care of me was me. I fell in love with you because I felt like you accepted me for who I was and you were protective of me. You thought I was something worth protecting. You know what else is funny. I feel in love with R because he protected me from everyone but himself and he did more harm to me than anyone. It's like when I first met you I saw you being over protective of me as a good thing then as I grew and got stronger I saw it as being smothering. Now I realize that you haven't changed but I have. You are still the same wonderful man I fell in love with. ( All the while I am snotting and crying)

Then I say please tell me something.

H: Says ok Mary I will do better.

DIG: That's not what I mean. I want you to comfort me and tell me that I will be ok. That nothing is wrong with me. That my parents failed me and that I ok.

H: (Does what I asked of him).


DIG: Thank you so much for that. I really appreciate it. Do you think I am a nut case? Do you think less of me?

H: No.

DIG: Why not?

H: Because I love you.

We Kiss and I try and wrestle with him to wipe my nose on his shirt. Then we laugh and get up to go use the bathroom and clean myself up and when I come back he is snoring. I laugh and then lay down beside him and go to sleep thinking I am a lucky woman.


Sorry this is so long.

I

LOL

Mary, that's pretty much how all kids come.

They NEED boundaries!



LOL "powers for good".

Teach them right from wrong, and they'll do fine!



I love being a woman. I am thrilled to let my nurturing side run wild w/ my children. But, I learned that my kids needed more from me than that pretty quickly. They needed dicipline. Not only did I think it was unfair to dump the "dirty work" on their father. But, it was impractical as well. I was w/ them more than he was.

And so are you, Mary.

~ Marsh

You present a united front just by not arguing w/ your H about whatever he's correcting your kids for.

And by seeing to it that they do what he wants them to when he's not around.

~ Marsh

LOL "monkey hands" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think I'm a pretty affectionate person, but Mary, you'd better leave my lint where it is, K? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />



All kids are emotional....we all are. Do you mean that your daughter is more sensitive? More demonstrative?

He needs to teach your DD how to treat him. And you need to back him up. If he doesn't like to be touched alot, that's OK, Mary. It really is. Since you love to be affectionate then YOU meet that need and let your H meet that need the best he can. Your DD will survive having a nondemonstrative father.

Teach her to accept her father as he is. Teach her to respect his needs.

~ Marsh

But below you focused on HIS PRIVATES and not AFFECTION IN GENERAL. This is what concerned me...

WOW...I'm impressed..you and your H are being so WONDERFULLY OPEN AND HONEST WITH EACH OTHER...

Just one little, itty bitty observation...cause I used to make this MISTAKE..don't expect him to CURE YOU OF YOUR PAST HURTS...

The best learning from me is to LET THE PAST GO and FOCUS ON THE PRESENT and PLAN FOR THE FUTURE..

Marsh I could not agree with you more. I know they need to be diciplined. I had a problem before with being consistent, backing down when they pouted, Remembering I punished them, and making empty threats. I have gotten a lot better at this but I still have some work to do. I also need to they learn how to respect others and their space. I am learning. I am a work in progress.

What do you think about the talk my H and I had last night? I have to tell you when you said I didn't trust myself you could not have been more right. What's funny is how can I be so sure of myself and unsure all at the same time. I think I am pretty, multi-talented, funny and I have a great personality. I am always myself and I don't put on airs. You will either accept me or you won't be then I also fear being rejected and that all the good things about me still are good enough to make me parents love me for who I am. I thought I was broken for a long time. My mom was overly critcal and my dad checked out long ago. I remember I would cook dinner & clean the house so she wouldn't have to when she came home because she worked two jobs while my dad watched t.v. all day and she would come in and instead of saying thank you she would tell me how much I messed up. I was crushed and when I go out of my way to do things for my DH and he would treat me the same way I would want to run away.

I know I can't change the past and I am thankful in a way because what I went through growing up made me Hella strong and I know if I could make it through that I could make it through anything.

Yes my DD8 is very demonstrative. I will try letting them know just because their dad isn't doesn't mean there is something wrong with them. However how do I explain the fact that he plays with the little ones and not them. I think I need to try and get both of them to except the other the way they are.

Also if that's the way you are going to be then I will not pick your lint. LOL Just messing with you.

AWESOME TALK!!!

Huge kudos for it, Mary!

Bravo!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Just a couple of things...



Protection is a good thing.

You wouldn't take young seedlings out into the harsh weather. You protect them in greenhouses until they are strong enough to be planted outside.

Children need to be protected, as much as possible IMHO.



LMAO!!!!



This is fairly normal fatherly statement.

He needs to get the kids interested in what HE likes to do.
It's in moments where he is sharing HIS passions that he will connect the most w/ your children.



Good suggestions!

And you might want to send them to "help" him one or two at a time.



Mary, why would your kids think there's something wrong w/ them?

Why put that much significance on whether your H plays w/ them?

There are no perfect parents. Ours fell short for us. And you will fall short for yours.

Teach your children to accept him, trust him and his love for them.



Why would he think they would think there was something wrong w/ THEM, if he corrected their BEHAVIOR?

You both seem to hesitate to correct your kids b/c they might think there is something wrong w/ them.

Please give this belief some serious thought.

The fact is, your girls WILL think there is something wrong w/ them, when their father tenses up/protects his privates when they hug him. That's why it is EXTREMELY important to be honest w/ them..and correct their behavior, not pretend their behavior doesn't bother him.



Awesome advice! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



Did you really believe this? As a young adult? As a child?

Please be certain this isn't a typical belief that girls have about their dad's.



They won't. They are different people. They will have different experiences from you.

See them as separate from you.

~ Marsh

Thank you Mimi I know he can't but just because he let my cry on his shoulder last night and he comforted me it meant the world to me. I don't I want him to cure me I just want to know that even though I feel as screwed up as I do from time to time the he will always accept me. Does that make sense?

Everything is so true. I agree they need protection and by my all means I will do just that but I know that I can't do that to much. I heard somewhere that raising kids is like a peice of paper if you hold on to tight you could tear it and if you don't hold on tight enough then it will fly away in the wind.

Also I think the belief that we have that if we correct the kids they will think something is wrong with them because the way we were corrected growing up made us think something was wrong with us.


He needs to get the kids interested in what HE likes to do.
It's in moments where he is sharing HIS passions that he will connect the most w/ your children.


I agree with this as well as well as this



The fact is, your girls WILL think there is something wrong w/ them, when their father tenses up/protects his privates when they hug him. That's why it is EXTREMELY important to be honest w/ them..and correct their behavior, not pretend their behavior doesn't bother him.

I know honesty is always best but he has a poblem with expressing his feelings and know it's because he couldn't do it as a kid without being reprimanded.


There are no perfect parents. Ours fell short for us. And you will fall short for yours.

Teach your children to accept him, trust him and his love for them.



I know and agree with this. There is for that matter no perfect person. I think maybe this has to do with my belief because it's how I felt growing up and what I wanted.


Did you really believe this? As a young adult? As a child?

Please be certain this isn't a typical belief that girls have about their dad's.


I think I believed this because when I was in grade school. I had my boundaires crossed in a major way by some little boys at school and being as though it was the only kind of male attention I got(sexual) other getting yelled at or spanked it's what fueled the belief. ALso one time this boy kissed me and I didn't want him to and I bite him and instead of him getting i trouble I went to the principal's office and got spanked for trying to protect myself.

If he is not demonstrative, why can he play with the little ones and not with them?

I don't understand why he can't PLAY with ALL of them?

Mimi.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I agree that it's YOUR STUFF to TIVO those shows..but it seems to me that it's HIS PLACE to take THIS TIME to show her how to be more appropriate...using his own way..WHY IS HE ALLOWING HIS DAUGHTER TO HAVE THE POWER TO FREAK HIM OUT?That's giving HER too much POWER? He has MORE CONTROL OVER HIMSELF and what happens TO HIM than that.

Sorry. I'm still having problems with the SEXUALIZED NATURE of this discussion. He's putting it on you and the shows. HE CAN PUT A STOP TO THIS HIMSELF. HE HAS THE POWER AS THE FATHER!!! An 8 year old CAN rub her father's back in a NONSEXUALIZED WAY!!! It's about him is what I'm saying. Does he feel that it's SEXUAL for his DAUGHTER to TOUCH HIM???? If so, this is ABOUT HIM and NOT ABOUT HER.

An 8 year old girl cannot know anything about SEX just by looking at TV unless she has actually watched INTERCOURSE and allowing her to do that WOULD BE ABUSIVE.

There's a difference between liking parts of yourself and trusting yourself.




No one likes to be rejected by others. That's a universal fear.

You believed that you earn love....I think you still believe it.

But, is it true? Do we earn love?




Well, since you believe you earn love, it makes sense that you believe that when others seem to reject you, it is an indication that you are broken.

That somehow, if you could only "fix" yourself, you'd be protected from rejection. You'd have earned love.

I'm asking you to question this belief.




Right. You are still trying to earn love.

You do X in order that he will do Y.

So when he doesn't do Y you feel as though you aren't good enough...broken....rejected.



I think the best way to handle this is by having your H share his passions w/ them.

~ Marsh

He needs to be able to tell his girls to knock stuff off that he thinks is wrong or inappropriate.

He NEEDS to.

They NEED him to.

Telling our kids to stop touching us, in that way, or right now, is not going to scar them. It will teach them to respect others and it will also make them feel safer b/c their daddy and mommy don't think there's something wrong w/ them that a little rebuke/correction won't fix.



I think so too.

Your girls aren't you. You really can't know how they are feeling inside unless they tell you.

Just b/c you were hurt when your parents did X, doesn't mean they will be hurt if your H does X to them.

Your kids aren't you.

Know that!




Mary, your childhood experiences aren't nearly as important as your beliefs are.

For example...

What belief did you walk away from when this happened?

Did you believe this was just more proof that you can't be trusted?

If you want to change the way you think and free yourself from bad experiences in the past, you really need to examine your beliefs.

Ask yourself if they are true. Really true.

If they aren't then discard them.

Clean house, and replace them w/ true beliefs.

~ Marsh