Well, H and I finally sat down to talk this evening. I did an okay job listening -- didn't argue or go on endlessly. But I did talk.<P>There's really not much to say. After getting my hopes up, it appears not much has changed. He's having second thoughts. Mostly around the kids. He says the anger he felt at me going out with someone was because it hit him that eventually someone else will be raising his kids. <P>It is so hard to hear him say this kind of stuff. Part of me just wants to accept that he really doesn't love me. If so, I don't want to be with him. Part of me believes that his feelings for me are just buried under a thick layer of resentment and defensiveness. Can he really feel nothing at the thought of me eventually being with another man? Is it really only about the kids? Or is it just easier for him to deal with and communicate about his feelings about the kids?<P>He talked about his fears should he come home. He's afraid of his needs and feelings being steamrollered by me. In the past, he never expressed his feelings. I can see how he felt like I trampled on his feelings, but how do you meet the needs of someone who won't express his needs? The best I could do was agree with him that his concerns are valid and ask how we could address those concerns. He didn't have any suggestions. I didn't bring it up, but I think POJA is what's needed. He needs to ask himself (and I need to ask him) if he ENTHUSIASTICALLY agrees to something. He tends to just agree to anything and then resent it. <P>I finally asked him straight out if he wanted me to sign the waiver of service. He thought for a long time, then told me he would give me an answer tomorrow. Based on past experience, I think the answer will be yes. He agonizes over this stuff, but in the end he always opts for divorce. <P>Why am I waiting on him anyway? If he wants a second chance, he can withdraw his petition for divorce. Why am I waiting for him to tell me what to do with the waiver? <P>Interestingly, he feels like getting back together is the 'path of least resistance'. Divorce is much harder. I kind of feel the opposite at this point. I feel like divorce at this point would be easier. Not in the long run, but in the short term. I think fixing our relationship will require a few years of walking through fire, but it will be worth it. <P>He didn't really know why he asked for conditions. He suggested that maybe it was because he was hoping I'd give him a huge list so he could reject it. Interesting that he brought this up. Instead I told him that it is his home and he's welcome home anytime. <P>He did say one interesting thing -- he said "I'm the best thing that ever happened to you and you'll never meet anyone better." This from a man who claims to have no feelings for me at all. <P>I hate this rollercoaster. I'm going to wait to hear what he says tomorrow. But I may sign the damn thing anyway. I deserve better than this jerk. I'd rather work on reconciliation, but I'm prepared to get a divorce. I'm not willing to live in limbo forever. I can't afford it financially or emotionally. Of course, I did tell myself I would give it a year, and it hasn't quite been a year yet. <P>DMac & Suse and other success stories -- did you tell your spouse it was 'for the kids' and later realize your feelings for your spouse were still there? Or am I kidding myself?

Hi Ani -<P>I am sorry for your pain and confusion. No matter how much we tell ourselves that we won't get our hopes up we inevitably do. Did you read Eric32's recent post. It's an interesting perspective - reinforces how the waffling doesn't change for a very long time (if ever... ). <P>Ani, I agree that sometimes divorce seems easier. I think the best advice I can give, is the advice you gave me - don't let his ambivalence keep you from starting to build a life for yourself and treat yourself (and your H i'll add) with respect and dignity.<P>I also think that you hit it when you "why are you waiting for him to tell you about the waiver". Do not do too much to save him from the consequences of his action - you are right that if he is truly desirous of stopping the petition - he can. Could it be he is relying on you to take all the actions to give him time and space to think?<P>if you have a timeframe Ani, stick to it, then evaluate at that time. Til then - you are doing so well and should know you both inspire me when I need inspiration and caution me when I get too "inspired". <P>Thank you and hang in there,<BR>Starpony

Ani-I have to agree with Starpony! Things are just too confusing right now with his waffeling and it does seem to be going on for awhile but would you be happy just giving him what he expresses as his want? I think his actions don't tell you clearly. I had a hard time forgiving my H from OW because I was so hurt and thought that if I did he would think less of me. That he would think he could take advantage of my goodness. Silly me! I waffeled forever and now I am so glad for his patience in dealing with me during that time. Good luck and I will be praying for you! God Bless! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

I would be shocked at this stage if he could honestly tell you that he wanted to come back for you (instead of the kids). It would conflict with all I've read about lovebanks, romantic love (in affairs), etc. In his brain, he probably compares the relationship with you with that euphoric high he had with the OW. Based on that comparison, any long-term marriage would come up on the short end of the stick.<P>The "in-love" feelings shouldn't come until trust, respect, and needs-meeting behaviors have all been restored. The changes will PRECEDE the feelings.<P>I think he's being mostly honest with you about his ambiguity. It's real and will probably take a while to work through. I personally think divorce is the path of least resistance FOR YOU, but it will be harder than the current stringing it our FOR HIM (that's the comparison from his perspective - limbo vs. divorce, not reconciliation vs. divorce).<P>The problem is that reconciliation is really an act of faith. When you start, there's ambiguity on both sides (you have it too), but you have to commit to working through the issues. But the rub is the sacrifice comes at the beginning, when ambiguity runs rampant and feelings of love are not present. My guess is that his "real problem" is the same one I think my husband has - he lacks self-confidence in this relationship. He's not sure HE CAN do what needs to be done, that he can stand up to you when necessary, that he can negotiate effectively with you, that he can live with your strength. Just a guess based on what I've seen ...<P>

Hi, Annie,<P>Sorry to hear you're still in limbo-land. You do sound emotionally strong tho. You're doing a great job.<P>For what it's worth, I think at various times Dunc & I each felt we were hanging in there mostly for the kids' sake - but we did keep trying too. There isn't much doubt in my mind that without them to help 'glue' us together in the rough times, we probably would have packed it in. You're right when you say that reconciliation would involve some years of 'walking through fire' - but IMO it IS worth it, if you basically think your spouse is a decent human being & have enjoyed their company in the past. Unfortunately, as you know too well, if only one person wants to 'row', the boat goes around in circles! <P>My personal take on the whole infidelity thing is that often it's triggered by someone's *personal* emotional crisis (is this all there is to life? am I getting old? who AM I??...) - but the spouse/marriage makes a convenient target to blame all your problems on. It's SO easy to do - I've done it, Dunc's done it. Hopefully, the realization of that error is made before the whole marriage gets trashed.<P>Anyway, I thought Distressed made some real good points, about reconciliation being such a leap of faith, esp. at the beginning, when there is so little faith to go around. Also that the 'in-love' feelings are going to be *preceded* by regaining respect, trust, and effortful need-meeting. That's how it worked out for me & Dunc. For us, the 'in-love' stuff has come back with a bang - I was really afraid for some months that it would all go pouf & disappear - but it's been a year 10/17 and still wonderful.<P>I really wish you luck, Annie. If he is willing to move back in & not divorce 'for the kids', there is certainly a real possibility that over time his crisis will resolve... and he'll realize how good he really has it with you... but only you can decide how much longer you're willing to put up with this. You've certainly gone above & beyond already & have nothing to feel guilty about if you've had it. It's truly his loss... you have both learned so much in the last year, and it is sad to waste that. Dunc & I fully realize that it is precisely all the garbage we endured that has made the relationship we have now possible - we know each other's strengths & vulnerabilities so well now, and have learned to lean on the other's strengths & protect the other's vulnerabilities. We have wound up with a very nurturing, trusting relationship, for which I am profoundly grateful.<P>------------------<BR>~suse~<BR>Rome wasn't built in a day.<BR>