I had started this thread in the Plan A/B section, but it was recommended to me that I post it here to get more feedback. Thanks!!

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3224857

I’ve been a longtime lurker here but felt compelled to finally register and participate because I could really use some valuable assistance and advice from those of you who have done Plan B. Specifically, how do you prepare and get your ducks in a row to execute Plan B? My particular questions are down below, but I’ll try to summarize my story (see the link as posted in Plan B section).

But I’m close to a Plan B. WW is having her cake and eating it too—the passion of the OM, without regard to financial worries, kids, or responsibility, but also able to feel accepted at home by me, in a loving, caring environment that I’m trying to restore and demonstrate. I know what I need to do. But in trying to effect the Plan B letter and execute on it, I really pray for some guidance from some of you about the logistics of planning this…

• How do you physically separate? Since the OM is in a different town, but her job is here, can I reasonably expect her to leave the house? If so, the financial strain on us, which is already significant, would only explode. I don’t have an alternative if we lose the house. If not, where would she go? She couldn’t afford to live elsewhere either unless OM bankrolled it. I can’t get past the mechanics of how this would work.

• If she did move out or leave for Plan B, I have to arrange after school for the kids, which also costs money. The time constraints to get them then might interfere with my job, adding even more stress.

• Since we’re not in DV proceedings, it wouldn’t be appropriate to change the locks on the house, but don’t know how to ensure the ‘no contact’ rule.

• Most importantly, and I’ve not read anything about this here: what do I say to the kids? How do you explain this?

• How long do you carry on a Plan B?

* Also, should I forward a copy of the letter to the OM?


Thanks to any and all of you who can lend an ear and offer your thoughts, opinions, etc. I am at a proverbial and literal crossroads in my life, one that has repercussions for a lifetime to several lives that hang in the balance in no small part to what I choose to do.

You would start off by asking her to leave. You would want to file seperation/divorce and get your finances in order along with visitation. Your children should stay with you in the home. She should not be allowed to take any family money or possessions with her without a court order.

She would have to figure out herself how to finance her new living arrangements.


Yes, seperation is stressful. But you will have to work things like this out.

•
Change the locks. You wouldn't want her coming in and out of the house.


You tell the kids the truth, that their mother is having an adulterous affair with another man and give them moral guidance. Dr. Harley is very clear that the children should not be lied to. They should be told the truth. Kids can deal with the truth, they can't deal with lies.



Up to 2 years. This is up to you entirely.


Yes

Before you go to Plan B, what have you done in Plan A? Can you give us some history on her affair? Have you exposed the affair?

Do you have Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley?

I'm with Melody. Her last point is crucial. Expose to all that matter in this situation, including HR departments, friends, family, influential parties (such as members of your church, etc.).

I would ask her to leave. I would change the locks. I would begin squaring away finances, or at least prepare with a plan, PRIOR to her leaving. I would get an LSA, if possible (in MD, if you file an LSA, it is not the same as filing for D).

Prepare a Plan B letter and post it here. The book SAA has a good template in the Greg/Sue? situation (me thinks). Prepare for financial changes, reach out to your family and friends and don't be afraid to ask for help.

Talk to your children and remain open to talking about the situation as things progress. No lies, no masking the sitch for them. They are pretty bright people, children are, and they perceive the loss quite well. Prepare to get them help, via your church, divorce care, rainbows org, or other groups that meet. The local school system may be a help in this avenue, also.

You must be ready, or as they say, brain and heart IN SYNC. Preparedness is only half the battle. You must go through your own withdrawal and learn acceptance.

Maybe fill in the blanks a bit more for those of us who don't know your story...

Thanks Melody and Silent…

OK, to fill in a few gaps, I’ll elaborate a bit and follow up with a few more questions, because this Plan B is just such a drastic step after having worked and worked and worked on Plan A, trying to reconnect (to no avail).

History of the affair: Well, to expand on my original post, she put an ad on an internet site to find the OM last fall. From what I can tell, it was largely Yahoo IM and selective text messaging—I was totally oblivious to it. It grew to be more frequent texting, which was my tip off. I checked her phone and that was D-Day. Prior to all of this, we had still been trying to get past my A and the fallout from that. I holed it away, and was oblivious to her pain, thinking time would heal all wounds. She recounts to me even now that every time she brought it up (to get counseling as I committed to after being caught) I brushed her off, and that’s true. I was immersed in some unhealthy guilt issues, tormenting myself every day about what happened. I thought if I suffered silently and tried to plow my way through the adversity that things would be fine. Guess not. Concurrent with that, WW says she tried to reconnect with me. I didn’t notice this, not necessarily because I’m dense (although that’s a possibility) and because I wasn’t ready to receive her attempts, but I also don’t think she put any formalized effort into it (ie: through any research or books or part of a formal program to instill new habits and such). So she decided internally to just shut down, stop trying and became alienated in turn. But she never really (IMO) sat down to explain to me that she was hurting with it, that her needs weren’t being met and didn’t offer a solution or ideas. I didn’t know how dire it really was. This culminated last December when sexual relations stopped. And then the “real” D-Day in which I confronted her about it.

What have I done in Plan A? Well, I mentioned the Mort Fertel Marriage Fitness thing earlier. I was doing the Lone Ranger track, and have been devotedly pursuing it in earnest since early February. I employed an amalgam of other sources, including Dr. Phil, who I had previously loathed and the Relationship Rescue book, which also made sense and is interwoven very much with Harley’s own Plan A tenets. I used the talk and touch charges, gifts, reaching out, and tried to be consistent with it, in an effort to thaw things out. I've been pretty disciplined with understanding the laws of the harvest--slow is fast, fast is slow, all that. Realizing that we didn't get into this mess overnight, nor will we get out.

Sure enough, she’s let me rub on her, massage her, all that, and remained sleeping in the same bed (sans any intimate relations) but everytime she would visit OM, ice cubes again. Slightly warming up, and then back up to visit OM. One step forward, two steps back. And then I noticed a trend of gift warfare—in trying to be sweet, treat her nicely, she’d then return from a weekend with OM with diamonds. And early in this process, late January, I sat down at the PC and her profile was still logged in, with a video link of them having sex. I was destroyed. But I kept going with the program after regaining my composure, never blowing up, trying to be the consistent stalwart H that I could be, hoping that she would be inspired by my example of acceptance and love. It’s been the most gut-wrenching, tumultuous 4+ months of my life, without a doubt. I could chronicle much much more but I think you get the point.

The past 48 hours have been acceleratingly painful- she asked me to stop touching her altogether as it makes her feel uncomfortable, and said she doesn't even think it appropriate that I see her naked anymore. And the tone of the rhetoric has taken a clear turn for the worse.

Exposing the affair: I’ve not really done this. My MIL knows and a few of her friends, both being told directly from WW. I know it seems so cruel to just bust the news out, but I can’t lie anymore. I know what I have to do, I just don’t like it. But my own integrity—and as a good confidant reminded me—the integrity with which my kids hold in me, is at stake and I can’t hide it from them. How do you do it? Verbally?

Her moving out: If she asks how she is supposed to do this, I am going to suggest she talk to the OM for bankrolling it. Either she keeps her job, which we need the money for to keep the house and bills going, and moves out to a different location here, or she moves to the OM (again, 250 miles away) and then I have to figure out the financial situation—which is of significant stress right now in a way that impedes a course of action I’d ideally like to take if I could.

Change the locks: she has property here, wouldn’t there be legal issues if I prohibit her from access?

Kids: so you’re saying I should tell two boys, 8 and 6, the truth? Fully? I won’t lie to them, but need to cushion that blow. I don’t know if I can gin myself up to have that talk. This is part of the preparation assistance that I’m looking for…any book recommendations or general guidelines as to how to break this one? Silentlucidity- what is ‘rainbows org’?


I do not have Surviving an Affair by Dr. Harley but am ordering it.

Thanks for the input and help folks- especially from those who have gone down this path and survived. Your clarity and support means a lot.

It is best to expose to her parents, your parents, the OM's parents, employer if a workplace affair, close friends, etc. Exposure is ruinous to affairs because they thrive on secrecy. It is like turning on the lights in a crack house and bringing in an audience, it ruins all the fun.

It must be exposed BY you, not the the WW who spin the story with you starring as satan and all manner of justifications. Generally, it is best to call the target, tell them about the affair and ask for their support. It is helpful if they will speak to her about it. But MAKE SURE your WW finds out that she has been exposed. That is the GOAL.

There is nothing cruel about exposing the affair. Having an affair is cruel.

THIS should be done before you go into Plan B if you can last a few more days. Sometimes exposure will kill the affair, so give it a try FIRST. It may not, but this should be tried first. After the affair is exposed, THEN go into Plan B.

Who would be good exposure targets? Do you have information on the OM? His parents, employer, etc?


I would not do that.If she asks how she is supposed to do that, tell her you have complete confidence in her ability to figure it out on her own. She is an adult, after all, not a child.


Tell her you will expect her to continue to pay her share of the house hold bills. You may want to get with an attorney and get this all set up.


You would want to give her her personal effects. She can force you to let her in, if you don't get a legal seperation agreement, but she will have to go to a great deal of trouble and expense to get back in. Let her do that, it is no loss to you. They do it anyway.


You just tell them about the affair in an age appropriate manner. Explain to them the moral ramifications of an affair, ie: it is WRONG for a mommy to be romantic with another man, etc. Let them know how hurtful this is to you and this is why you must seperate from mommy. Let them know they will always have access to their mom and tell them the visitation schedule you have arranged.

Lastly, I think you will find Marriage Builders to be the most effective out of the other plans. Read up on Plan A and Plan B and see what you think.

Hopefully you did not show her "acceptance and love" for such filthy behavior. There would be nothing accepting or loving about that. That is absolutely dysfunctional and is more along the lines of very extreme ENABLING. Rather, she should have seen your disgust and devastation. I would show this video to her mother and any other close relatives. Hopefully, you have saved it.

Here is an outline of Plan A:

The Carrot and the Stick of Plan A by Pepperband

The carrot of Plan A


Meeting your wandering spouse's emotional needs.

Making "home" a warm and inviting place to be.

Placing emphasis on what has worked in the marriage.

Showing consistent self improvement in areas where previously lacking.

Stop lovebusting behaviors.

Communicating with a calm reassuring voice and relaxed body language, even in the center of a verbal storm created by the infidel.

Becoming the person any reasonable spouse would want to come home to.

Remaining open to the possibility of recovery.

Offering forgiveness and understanding.



The stick of Plan A


Exposing adultery where it matters most. Exposure that takes the form of a swift and sudden unexpected tsunami of truth.

Not apologizing for exposure or speaking the truth in a kind yet direct way.

Directly communicating the hurt and devastation that the affair has caused.

Not accepting blame for the infidel's choice to become adulterous.

Let the consequences of adultery and infidelity fall freely upon the heads of the adulterous.

Establishing boundaries that disallow the affair to effect children of the marriage, financal security of the marriage, and otherwise ruin innocent bystanders.

Standing up to infidelity as a beast that must be slayed for the good of the family.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Plan A is both a *carrot* and a *stick*.

Rainbows Organization is a place where you can get help with couseling that is catered toward children dealing with pain from separation, divorce and other life traumas. Here's the link http://www.rainbows.org/

I would follow Melody's lead, in that exposure needs to be done prior to Plan B. Expose to In-laws, any sibling, friends, HER WORK (if it's a work R) OM's parents.

It is most important that this exposure is swiftly done, without WS knowing you are doing it. Do not give her any time to make up stories or PREPARE for the fallout.

She will be HOT, LIVID, angrier than you have ever seen or heard. She will be seething. I would be too if I was torturing the people I loved and EVERYONE KNEW about it. It's embarassing and painful and that light that shines on the affair partners is blinding.

Do it!

Do not shield your WW from the consequences of her actions. EVER. Do not help her move out. Do not stand and listen to her justifications. WALK AWAY when she is heated, saying that you can speak when she is calm. DO NOT let her scream and yell in your home around your children. If she becomes physically abusive, call the police, file a report. Do not let her get away with any of that sort of behavior.

If you can get a legal separation agreement, Do it! Keep the children WITH YOU. The proper environment for them is home, not around any OM. I would discuss what is happening with them, when the time comes. Do not name call, just the facts and how you feel is okay (hurt, sad, but still wanting the M)

Read this website, get it all under your belt, get Surviving an Affair. It's a pretty quick read. Most of all, hang in there. Take a bit more time to look thoroughly at MB website, articles and implement the advice. Contact a lawyer and get a consultation. Preparation and a Plan are your best weapons.

Hi, I am not sure that revealing to the children is the best idea. I think children need to understand that Mommy and Daddy are having problems that are not related to them, But children do not need to know that mommy is with someone else. I have simple told my children that Daddy has made some bad choices in our marriage. Those choices have nothign to do about them. Those bad choices have made mommy sad and we are working on finding a solution to them. When my husband moved out, my son's response was that Dad needed to learn to compromise if we were having trouble coming to a resolution.

I am mostly concerned to tell my son because I don't want him to repeat behaiors of his father when he is older.

cfc, it is very important that the children are told the truth. This is what Dr. Harley recommends. Children can deal with the truth, they cannot deal with lies. Children are not made to feel secure by believing lies about their parents.

Your son is more likely to repeat those behaviors if you DON'T TELL HIM becasue you will have missed the opportunity to give him some much needed MORAL TRAINING. He will learn from seeing FIRST HAND the destruction caused by adultery. That will be a lasting lesson he will never forget as a man. Lying to your son about your H's adultery helps no one, most especially him.

thanks !

p.s. cfc, this is all contingent upon your child's ability to understand and deal with this information. A 2 yr old surely is not old enough to even understand the concepts. Some 5 yr olds CAN, some can't. That is what you would need to decide as the parent. I know 1 family who decided not to tell their 6 yr old because she loved to announce news at her school and to her grandparents.

My kids are now almost 7 and 4 and I could give a damn who they tell, but was just worried about them in the future. H may not like it, but isn't that a natural consequence to his behavior?

CFC- I tend to gravitate toward your ideas about exposing the affair to the kids.

I'm not saying that the truth should not be employed, but for 8 and 6 year olds, there will be time to disclose more of the details when they are able to digest that. Kids don't comprehend marital love, the concepts or emotions associated with it. I'm the most reluctant about this and have the greatest trepidation. I myself come from divorced parents, and my Mom explained to me what was going to happen, and my Dad, who is now a long time recovering alcoholic, but at that age I didn't comprehend the evils of alcoholism. In a similar manner, I don't know how to convey what is going on to the boys.

Silent- thanks for the Rainbows link.

Melody- In my Plan A, I showed her acceptance as a person. As I gather it, part of her affair was driven by my not meeting emotional needs, but part of it--and this goes back to the very beginning of our marriage--was her torment about my not accepting her. ie: she thinks that my expectations for a wife are more akin to the Ozzie and Harriet panacea, and she thinks today (and although it might be the fog of the A these are thoughts she held to some degree long before the A) that she can never live up to my expectations. Funny that we've not talked about these expectations however, and the communication has suffered.

WW never even wanted to have kids until she met me. And she quit college to move in with me my senior year of college prior to the summer of our wedding. I think part of that short-circuited her career ambitions. That, and being "stuck" at home as a SAHM, supporting my career, left her empty and exhausted. The history is rather complicated, and she has Daddy issues too--trying to please, trying to make her Mom happy who was in an unhappy marriage herself. And WW had been the OW in an A with a MM previously as well, so there is some background here that is relevant.

Also Melody, my Plan A was a combination of efforts to reconnect with her, so that she would know that I was willing to fix the marriage. With an A going on, I don't know how successful that strategy can be, because she's not thinking straight at all.

I thought she was going to be here this weekend even, for the first time in a while, but when I got back from golfing yesterday (which I had bailed on at least 5 times previously because of her A), she said she was going to visit OM and fly out that evening. So once again, left hanging high and dry and I can't go on like this anymore.

Exposure: I can certainly do this and will throw down the gauntlet. I wonder if I should contact the OM's mother, as I've heard WW speak of her before. Might be able to look her up, don't know. But I can go for exposure in other ways.

Thanks for all the great thoughts folks...I am grateful and welcome the continued comments.

My timetable is this (generally):

* Exposure: beginning in earnest today and continuing early this week.
* I'll be traveling Thurs-Sun next week, so that puts a kink in things.
* I'm thinking about presenting the Plan B letter that next Monday, one week from now.

Who is this OM? Is he married? What does he do?

Who would be on your exposure list?

OM's mother would be a GREAT EXPOSURE because mothers can put great pressure on their children. It will also make it very hard for the OM to bring your W around and introduce her. Try to locate her through www.zabasearch.com or www.peoplefinder.com by inserting his name. At the very worst, I would even suggest hiring a PI to dig it up. It shouldn't be that expensive to find it. Some parents don't give a damn and will say "I just want weezer to be happy," [thank God he is a not a serial killer, huh??] and some will put great pressure on their children. There would be he11 to pay if my son ever acted so trashy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would suggest exposing to all on the same day if you can. It is best to get it done in ONE FELL SWOOP to acheive the maximum impact. It is harder for them to regroup from a tsunami than a few leaks in the dam and gives them no opportunities to pre-empt you.

Make up a list and just sit down at the phone and start calling. Tell them you are trying to save their marriage and ask for their support. Include her parents, closer siblings, your parents, the OM's parents, etc.

As far as telling your kids, that is something you will have to decide as a parent. Children do understand right from wrong and do know that adultery is wrong. I can tell you from personal experience that it is damaging to NOT tell children because it causes great moral confusion. My father was a serial cheater and I KNEW there was something very wrong, but since my instincts about right and wrong WERE NOT VALIDATED, I concluded that I must be a very stupid girl. I began feeling this way at age FOUR. I grew up profoundly confused with great self doubt. Nothing made any sense to me because my mother was not honest with me. My mother should have told me when I was FOUR and it would have made a great difference. Children understand right from wrong, but they need those instincts validated.

On the other hand, Dr. Harley WAS TOLD about his fathers affair when he was a boy and claims that this was a profound, LASTING moral lesson that has stayed with him throughout his life. He saw first hand the horrific damage of an affair so he knew he could never inflict such a thing on his family when he grew up. He also saw the recovery side after an affair when his father came home. He received good, solid moral guidance from his mother and it prepared him for manhood.

CR, I would get her OUT before you present the Plan B letter. After you expose, let things calm down a bit and then suggest the seperation. After she moves out, then you would want to present the Plan B letter.

You could explain that your wife has made some bad choices as I have done until you decide what is the best thing to tell them. They need to know something so that they are not worried that it is them. I have a background in child developement/ Pyschology. That is why I feel strongly about what I told my children.

I do get the point the they don't need lies, but I am not lying just giving them the information that they can handle. When I read the article on what infidelity teaches children, Harley said that not telling the children the truth teaches them that it is okay to lie so as not to hurt another person. So I thought that maybe I will tell my son what has happend. I want him to understand the hurt that doing something like this will cause a family, but then I think that I don't think that this will change him from not repeating the same act as an adult. How many said when they are little, I won't ever do that and then catch themselves doing the exact thing that there parents did?? Children model their parents actions not follow their words. The actions that my Husband is taking has not hurt them enough for them to care to not do it in the future.Even if it was hurting them badly, I think about children who were really hurt by sexual abuse tend are at more risk for doing this as adults regardless of whether or not they endured pain as a child from this. I think by making it simple for the child to undertand, I.E. Dad is making bad choices and will have a natural consequence. The children are able to understadn the importance of making good choice. This sets a good habit for life. Continuing to make good choice throughout life will protect my children from making choices like their father more than using my husband's actions now to set an example. I am sticking firm with my decision not to tell them, but do respect the others response to what I said.

Crossroads, your children are at an age where, when presented correctly, they will understand why they have their own confusion and pain. Telling a child right and wrong is part of your job as a parent, and I do believe that they will understand. I am from a VERY broken home, and the lessons I learned are part of why I am in my current sitch. I learned that people leave, and you just have to suck it up and move on. I didn't learn that what my father did was wrong (abusive alcoholic), but that he was damaged and such is life.

Not good lessons for a 4-5 year old. Children know when something is amiss.

So expose her, suggest a separation, THEN do the Plan B? I thought that the plan B letter was the impetus and introdution to the request to have her move out...no?

Also, on topic of the kids, I wanted to share this with you and get your thoughts. I was contemplating e-mailing this to WW Monday AM at her work. It happened as I describe yesterday. The email attachment I refer to is the article "Infidelity: The Lessons Children Learn" by Dr. Jennifer Harley Chalmers.

Dear WW,
In our phone text message exchange of yesterday, prior to your going to XXX, there was a flurry of notes about the boys. I mentioned that the boys were asking where you were going and why. I also noted that I'm tired of lying to them.

Your response was, "For the record, no one ever asked you to lie."

Well, while that is true insofar as semantics, it's not as clear in real life and is intellectually bankrupt. I've been trying to protect the boys from your affair. For months now, I've tried to shelter them, protect them from the cruel truth of what has been going on. I realize now that that has only enabled you.

Moreover, I've told you repeatedly that I've kept the boys out of our discussions for purposes of trying to work on US, trying to get US to reconnect, and not leverage them in this situation. I thought--incorrectly so--that if we focus on us that things would be OK. I now realize the error of that approach--they are very much at the crux of this. The state of our marriage as it presently exists also has life-changing repercussions to those two little boys. They are as inseparable from our marriage as the two of us are.

My silence is tantamount to a lie. I told you that I was going to "protect your integrity" by not disclosing the affair to them. I also now realize that there is no integrity in what's going on. Furthermore, I am doing my own character and integrity a disservice--and theirs--by remaining in silence. I have worked too hard over the past several months to now have this shadow hanging over me.

No one ever asked me to lie...

Nor will I carry, obscure or hide a lie.

I am attaching two articles that I earnestly ask you to read and digest. I put them out there for you to ponder on.

Love, me

Do you think I should send this? It's kind of a presaging to the Plan B letter, but I feel it important to bring the kids into this at this juncture. I don't want to show my hand too much though. Thoughts?

cfc, you do know that Dr. Harley is a LICENSED PSYCHOLOGIST, right? With 30 years experience at this. He is a professional, so I am inclined to take his advice. I think that is important to tell children the TRUTH, don't you? Telling them "mommy and daddy are having problems" is not very honest and does not honestly convey the source of the problem. Nor does it prepare them for potential meetings with the OP.

I think it would be much better to tell them nothing than to tell them lies or spin the truth. Children can and do understand the concept of marital fidelity, so don't sell them short.

No, because if you give her the letter and she won't move, then what? You ain't going into Plan B and you look pretty silly. Rather, get her out and THEN present the Plan B letter when you can do Plan B.

Secondly, I would tell your boys with just you there with no forewarning. THEN, Instead of sending her an email that she will try and use against you, just tell her in person that you have told the boys the truth and give her the article. KEEP IT VERY SIMPLE, because your reasoning will fall on deaf ears. She will not LIKE THIS, so no amount of REASON will get through to her. Simply tell her that you decided it was wrong to protect her secrets anymore and since it effects your children directly, they have a right to know the truth. Leave it at that and dont allow her to bait you into a fight.