I wanted to start a new thread cause the other one was so long. <P>I was in no state of mind last night to get into an argument with husband again. I wanted to read everyone's advise that I printed out and try to have a "good" discussion with him and be prepared. I had a hectic day at work, no time at lunchtime to read and then I get home.<P>We have dinner and then he starts "Just so you know the last week of October and the 1st week of November the deer are in rut, so I'm giving it hell those two weeks, I'm going every night and both Saturdays all day, so you know in advance I don't want to hear **** from you". I just sat there and was thinking "OK what do I say, don't attack, be nice", so I said "when your gone so much I'm not happy, I feel lonely, don't you care if I'm not happy?" He said "well, you don't care if I'm happy, so why should I care about you, you know hunting makes me happy, it's a stress reliever for me, it's not like it's all year long, it's only a few months and I sacraficed enough for you when we married". <P>Now I'm saying to myself what did he sacrafice? He said "I used to fishing remember, and I used to fourwheeling with friends and go out with my friends (drinking), now all I do is go hunting, and I also put up with your family, all year long don't I go over your family's house at least once a week (Sundays mostly) with you, I don't care that much for your family and I'd rather be home, but I go for you, so if your gonna start telling me how many days I can hunting, etc. then I'm never going over your family's house again. You go by yourself, your family aggrevates me, you do so much for them and your sisters do nothing when they live at home (which is not true), they call you and ask you jump and you say "how high". You know I really don't have a family, they could care less about me, so I see the time you spend with your family as your "hobby" time. I'm going to start up fishing and go June - August everyday, so you won't see me in the Summer too." <P>O.K. at this point he's yelling, and I'm saying how do I fix this conversation, so I'm trying to talk calmly and tell him that family is different, he's not being fair. I love my family very much, we are very close and yes, I would do anything them and I don't expect a "payback" from them, that's not what family is about. My parents have done so much for me/us but regardless even if they didn't, their my parents. Then I got mad after an hour of this, and I said "O.K. fine, I guess during hunting season I'll just have to accept your hobby and be lonely, just so you know how I feel right now". Then he started with "I'm ridiculous, and my head is ****ed up, he can't wait to go to counseling with me, so someone else can see how unreasonable I am". <P>I hate it when he swears, so very calmly I said "please don't start attacking me, my head is not ****ed up, I'm trying to tell you how I feel, and your saying I'm crazy". He said "I've talked to my hunting buddies about you and they think your too much too, their wives don't give them so much ****, you should be like them". He said "this is my hobby, the season is not that long, and it's my life and this is what I'm doing, this is what makes me happy".<P>So I just stopped talking, went upstairs to think. I'm tired and I feel like that hamster on a wheel that just gets nowhere. He has made it very clear he's not changing this, is not willing to compromise, so if I decide to stay, I will have to learn accept it.<P>

OK, Hum, there are two things I'm getting from your post:<P>1) Your H is pretty immature. I didn't think anyone could be more of an adolescent than my H, but truly yours is. It's clear that he had no idea what marriage is. He probably thought it was regular sex and someone to replace Mom in cleaning up the house.<P>2) You haven't really "separated" from your family. This is pretty common. If you went right from your parents' home to marriage, it's not surprising.<P>So now we know one of the things your H resents: He resents that a) you're so close to your family; and b) you insist on dragging him into it. He sees it as a "tit for tat" thing -- he has to put up with your family, so you have to put up with his hunting. He's keeping score. No, it's not fair, but that's where we are.<P>A situation in which your spouse doesn't want to deal with your family is difficult. I have the same thing, except that I'm not overly fond of my family either. Usually the way we deal with it is that when I go visit my mother, I go alone, and leave him at home. This worked fine for years, until PSBFH came along and now I'm terrified to leave him home alone for four days. But that's another problem, and another story.<P>However, SHOULD you decide to stay in this marriage (and right now I don't see a whole lot of upside for you), you may have to work something out on that front. The first thing you have to ask, is ARE you too close to your birth family? It's a hard question to ask yourself, because conventional wisdom is that you can NEVER be too close to your family.<P>Hopeful1771, are you out there? I think you can probably chime in with some insights on this.<P>Once you marry, you really do have to break away from that family in order to create your own. It sounds like you haven't done that. I'm not sure that now is the time to do it, because to do something that painful, you'll need to know that either a) you're OK with being alone, or b) that your marriage is a safe, secure, nurturing place to be. And right now it's not.<P>But just something to keep in mind -- you can't devote 100% of your energies to your birth family and have anything left over for your marriage. When you marry, your relationship with your birth family has to change. You can still be close, but you can't be the "dutiful daughter" anymore. You have to find a balance.<P>Your H is probably a bit envious of your close relationship with your family, since his doesn't care about him. But instead of embracing it as a surrogate family for himself, he pushes it away. He's terrified of being rejected, but instead of doing what you and I do (turn somersaults to please them), he reacts by rejecting them before they can reject him. <P>I know this scenario, kiddo, I live with it. And I'd put twenty bucks on the table right now that says he's angry that you have a close family and he doesn't, and he's setting up a self-fulfilling prophesy of rejection by alienating them -- and you. Then he can say, "See? I told you so. Everyone rejects me."<P>If he's not willing to get some help for this, I'm not sure there's a whole lot you can do.<P>BUT...If H is willing to go to counseling with you, that's a good thing. He may be surprised at what he finds out. <P>People who aren't loved really can't love. They feel unlovable themselves. Oh, they may go through the motions. They may hug and kiss and say "I love you." But they don't really know how to LOVE.<P>It sounds like that's where your H is. It's not an easy thing to live with. Your H "acts out" his pain far more than mine does. The fact that he's so obsessed with a hobby that involves killing something more vulnerable than he is says a lot, IMHO. <P>Now, all you hunters, get off my case. I know the area where Hum lives, because I live there too. It's not a rural area. Hunting is not a real big thing around here. <P>Hum, your H feels "safe" around his buddies. They accept everything he does, and they tell him he's OK. He tells his buddies about how upset you are, and they say, "That's ok, buddy, it's her; it's not you." He has the sort of COMPLETE, UNCONDITIONAL ACCEPTANCE from them that he doesn't get from you. <P>The problem is that he's being an a**hole and doesn't DESERVE acceptance of his behavior from you.<P>I don't have any answers for you, Hum....I wish I did. If he's not willing to work with you, and you can't find a way to adapt, well, I don't know what you're going to do.<P>But I hope at least I can help you step out of your pain and give you some insights into him. He's giving them to you, I think...but you're so into your own (fully justified) pain that you can't read them. <P>Yes, Hum, you DO deserve better treatment than you're getting. Perhaps the fact that you're so unhappy with this after eight years is a GOOD sign -- it's a sign that you're perhaps for the first time realizing that you DO deserve to be treated well. I just wish there was an easy answer for you.

Hum--<BR>I'm sure part of the reason you're spending so much time with your family is because your husband isn't giving you what you need and hasn't for a long time...and I don't see anything wrong with that.<P>Your husband seems to have no respect for your feelings at all. I've felt that way at times too...it's so lonely. You try to calmly tell him your feelings and how you're hurt and he doesn't care...you yell, and he doesn't care...and then you walk away and hold it all inside. It's almost like you feel you need him more than he needs you. You must feel like he cares more about hunting than you. He made so many hurtful statements to you...how are you supposed to react calmly! My husband has been the same way at times...it's very frustrating. His favorite thing is to tell me how stupid I am...it hurts when the person who is supposed to love you more than anyone treats you with the least amount of respect. I don't understand that! Your husband doesn't understand how much he's pushing you away...it's almost like he's asking for a divorce!<P>You need to feel like your husband wants you...why would you want to be with someone who seems to care less about you.<P>I don't know what to tell you...I think that you need to go to counseling together ASAP. If he won't show respect for you and your feelings I would leave. I know I shouldn't be telling you to give up so easily, but you deserve better. I honestly think you should set a date in your mind. Give it 6 months or something...really give it your all. If things don't change, then leave.

Hum-I have to agree with Holly somewhat. I would go ahead and go to joint counselling, make sure he comes with you. I think he might find out he's not the end all that he carries himself off on. Maybe he is jealous of your time with him, maybe he feels you should sit at home and wait for him and do nothing but cater to his needs. My first H thought that way. I lived hundreds of miles away from my family and he thought I was wrong in calling them once a month. Some men are like that without realizing it and maybe counselling will wake him up as well. Either way, God Bless, hope your ok???? Please continue to keep us posted! <P>------------------<BR>Chick's <BR>Bren<P>You won't see things until your ready to not be blind!<P><BR>

Just a passing thought, not very helpful but...<P>Maybe his recreational need is alot higher than, actually I garantee it. I'm sorry but I don't see the problem with hunting, it is only once a year (the season) I play tennis and it's just in the summer. If I play every weekend my W gets upset, but not every other weekend.<P>Perhaps he is excessive, I don't know. Also the reason he may have these outbursts is that he knows no other way of communicating. Insecurity can do that to you. He may feel threatened when you start with the I feel this I feel that.<P>Most men (stereotype here) are not touchy feely people. Sorry, truth. Some learn to be by being around it, some learn by someone showing/telling them (counselor), some learn, gulp, by loss, and unfortunately some never learn.<P>I would say try to help in become more intouch, but if you push too hard too fast it may do just the opposite. Good luck

I feel like talking to the OM. Yell at me or something so I don't. <P>I miss him so much. He's wife is so lucky to have him.

Bad Hum, Bad.<P>Things are bad for you now but that would certainly not help. Why go from bad to worse?<P>The OP always looks best when things are at there worst, otherwise there probably wouldn't be an OP.<P>Try the counseling. Smile, even if it kills you smile.

Hummingbird DON'T!!!<P>You have a marriage to take care of. Nothing will change until you go to joint counseling. Review what your husband said. "You spend too much time with your family."<P>What did you say.<BR>"You spend too much time hunting."<P>When you go to the counselor be prepared to compromise. Suggest if it bothers him that much you will cut back on visits with the family, if he'll cut back on the hunting. Then perhaps you'll find what the real issues are. My guess is he won't agree, but a good counselor should get to the bottom of it. (It seems like hunting is his Affair Partner.)<P>If he goes for it then you have to have an alternative where you both can spend time doing something together.<P>You both have a long road to go, but no-one said it would be easy.<P>Keep trying!<P>------------------<BR>It's always darkest before the dawn

One of the tricks in this game is to disconnect the message from the way it's delivered. Your husband gave you a great deal of useful information and you should be grateful for that. Yes, he doesn't have a good delivery, but my guess is if you listen and act on what he's sharing with you, he will soften, at least enough to learn how to communicate better.<P>As the books all say, one person must take the lead in changing the pattern. He will react differently to you if you react differently to him.<P>I advise you to pull out all the information he gave you from that session (and there is alot) and figure out what you can do to make him feel important in your marriage. I think you have alot to work with.

WOW, i am just amazed at Dazed and Confused's insight!!!! You should really change your name, because I give you 2 thumbs up for your advice!!! How much do you charge for your services?!! =

Hum,<P>First off, I'm gonna say something that's gonna make you mad... letting you know from the get-go..<P>You haven't told your H about the affair yet, right? Waiting for the safe place at the counselor, right? Maybe H is lashing out because, as I've said before, he KNOWS but he doesn't REALLY know!!!! <P>I read your posts and it almosts gets upsetting because how can you work on this when there isn't the honesty? And you are so quick to want to run to the OM when things get uncomfortable.<P>I feel for you, honestly I do. I truly understand being afraid of your H too. Whether a H is violent or not in "real" life, he's gonna be hurting BIG TIME in "discovery" life and things can only get worse for a time - but then they'll either get much, much better or you'll get a divorce. My H has been going back and forth... and I was even afraid of him for awhile, even though he has never hit me before. He did during the week of discovery though. It was NOT punching, it was not in my face, it was him lashing out not knowing WHAT he was hitting. Now I could have run with that, called him an abuser... but I knew the pain behind it, and the history. <P>I don't know, Hum, I just find myself perplexed with your situation.<P>I do care, though, believe me. I just think that true healing for both of you cannot occur until you can be honest about what he already knows in his heart. I think some of that anger will subside, just by his knowing for sure.<P>Best wishes in counseling. And as others have said - DO NOT CALL THE OM <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<P>Marriage: the most important contract you'll ever enter into, and the most sacred.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited October 08, 1999).]

T24:<P>Yeah, do as I say, not as I do, right?<P>Believe me, I'm no paragon of mental health.<P>But at one time I did want to be a PhD psychologist.<P>Hummingbird's situation interests me for a couple of reasons -- one, she lives in my area, so I feel extra-protective ; and two, she's stuck in this "hopeless romantic" thing that sets my teeth on edge, because I think that unrealistic romantic expectations ruin many lives.<P>Others have said the same thing in this thread -- that even filtered through Hum's pain, her H is revealing a TON of things about himself and his feelings. Hum, print out your initial posts in these two threads and take them with you when you go for counseling...so you remember them.<P>Also, I recognize the family thing as familiar. Until recently, my H was regarded by his father as "that damn kid." His issues involve "the demanding father figure for whom nothing is good enough." This is one reason he can't deal with me having any negative feelings about the relationship -- he responds by feeling "No matter what I do, it's not enough." <P>My H isn't nearly as bad as Hum's is, but it's the same syndrome. That's where the insight comes from -- I've seen it.<P>I guess I'm still a frustrated psychologist; that's probably what brings me here, more so even than my own issues.<P>I just hope I can be of help.<P>

Hummingbird,<P>You and your H truly do live in different worlds. I have to say, though, that any man (especially with your H's mindsets) who actually went to your parents house most Sundays for 8 years, deserves some serious consideration before he or the marriage is labeled unsalvagable.<P>Really, most Sundays for eight years? This just about fries my brain. I can not even imagine my H spending that much time with my family or me spending that much time with my family...and I love my family and they are nice normal people. <P>My H counts anytime "sitting around and talking" as a total waste of time. If my (or his) family wanted to join him in any outdoor activity he would welcome them. <P>I think the difference is that my H (and it sounds like yours) gets his sense of self, his fulfillment, whatever, from what he does rather than from relationships.<P>You and I (along with most women and some men) get our sense of self, our fulfillment, whatever, from our relationships and our development of them.<P>This is kind of a guy thing, I think, if you read the Mars/Venus books and the like. (I have skimmed it)<P>Some men (and women) get this from their career...my H and yours, from their recreation. I think I understood my H much better when I stopped thinking of all his recreational stuff as hobbies in his free time, and started thinking of them as what is important to him in life. Then I had to get over the urge to compete with activities in an effort to make him proved he loved me more by what sacrificed. I was setting myself up for failure. In his mind, his relationship with me is not in competition with recreation. It is a seperate.<P>I believe in his mind he thinks I'm his priority. I don't see alot of hard evidence of that, but I believe he believe its.<P>Although he recognizes his affair was a crisis and he really did a good job of working on things, in general he thinks "I'm happy, she should be happy...now let's go DO something." Maybe that's an oversimplification, but not much.<P>He sees a relationship as something that just "is" so sitting around talking about it is a waste of time...time that could be spent on recreation.<P>Dazed is also right about his hunting buddies and the unconditional stuff he gets from them feels better than what he gets from you. (Not defending his insensitivity, just looking at it from his view.)<P>If he is willing to go to counseling, that's another great thing. Many would write this man off, and he may be far from a prince, but he may be a jewel in the rough, too...or at least a semi precious stone. Who knows?<P>With a few new ideas, better communication skills and a little time to bring it all together...maybe?<P><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hum... I was gonna stay away from this thread cuz your husband just makes me mad, and I'm afraid any advice I would give you wouldn't be good for your situation.<P>But I did want to say -- <B><I>DO NOT CONTACT THE OM!</I></B><P>okay, I'm done now.<BR>--andy

My husband is working 4PM-12AM tomorrow, BTW, he has said that he feels it's OK in my eyes to work overtime, because all I want is the money, that if had to work everyday Saturday it would be OK, but hunting is a different story, this is not true, he doesn't believe me.<P>I'm taking the opportunity to go to Borders, they have Cafe where you can read books and pick up these books:<P>1. Divorcebusting - Michele Weiner-Davis<BR>2. How One of you Can bring both of you together.<BR>3. The heart of Commitment by Scott Stanley<P>My counselor has suggested at least 9 months of maritial counseling (after I'm over OM of course) before making a decision. Right now I feel if things don't get better in that timeframe, I owe it to myself to move on. I know FHL had asked if I would regret or could live with myself leaving. I don't think many decisions are made in your life without some regret, and yes, I will feel a tremendous loss, but I think it would be worse for any to stay married solely based on commitment. I don't want my marriage to be an just an obligation, I want to be married because I love him and I won't find peace any other way. So my answer is yes.<P>I read the story Beth gave me again, and unfortunately after last night, until he realizes that I'm not crazy and sees the way he's treating me, it won't do me any good. He doesn't think he treats me that way and he'll fight me all the way. If you ask him, he'd say he's always there for me, loves me more than anything, would do anything for me (except compromise hunting), is an excellent provider and the best husband in the world. He's even said to me "if you think the grass is greener with one of those "tools" you work with, go for it, then you'll see, they come home late everynight all year long (which they don't), have to travel during the year, I don't and their jobs are their hobbies, you go for it and then you'll have less than time with them, you go and don't let the door hit you in the [censored]."<P>I don't know if I can accept certain things. He has to comprise hunting, somehow. I find it as a no-win situation, if he comprises I feel like I'm forcing him to be with me. Right now I feel we have no quality time together, even when he's home, maybe that's a big part of the problem. There so much distance between us.<P>FHL: I can't you wrote this, this is how I feel, exactly, he has told me I am priority to him but I don't believe him "...started thinking of them as what is important to him in life. Then I had to get over the urge to compete with activities in an effort to make him proved he loved me more by what sacrificed. I was setting myself up for failure. In his mind, his relationship with me is not in competition with recreation."<P>I thinks he's partially lying about his hunting buddies or maybe better worded, I don't think their wives are so happy or as easy going as he says. I've talked to some and they're not happy either. They've even made comments to me that I'm too easy on my husband and once we have kids he'd better change, or I'll be sorry.<P>Me & my family are close. I have 2 great sisters who are my best friends. We talk all the time. Yes, I guess you can say my relationships are my hobby. I love being close to them. I don't see my family as an obligation, as I feel he does, I cherish them and thank god I have them. I don't have many friends, only one other friend.<P>He also said last night "I see no point in going over your family's house sitting around the table, talking, drinking, eating, to me this is boring". I love it and I've told him many times I'd go alone and he insists on coming I don't know why, only to complain later, I'd rather have him stay home.<P>His family treats him like an outcast. They never call, never see how we're doing, he could be dead. They're so formal with making sure they call on holidays, b-days, etc. but that's it. To me, it's weird. They are so distant and we only live 5 miles away, they haven't been at my house since Xmas last year. I haven't seen his mother in 3 months. But yet his mother and sister are still glued together, weird to me. I think his mother somehow blames him for getting pregnant at 16 with him and having to marry his father. I don't know.<P>I'll wait and see, I'm not going to leave tomorrow, but he has to be more sensitive to me and stop calling me crazy. If it wasn't for you guys, I'd probably feel I was by now.<BR>

Hummingbird, I love hanging at Borders with a big stack of books and then taking home my favorite 1 or 2...OK...or 3 or 4.<P>You probibly do have to negotiate hunting at some point. It is a matter of degree.<P>However, I think your absolute primary need in your marriage is stopping the negative communication.<P>See if your H would at least agree not to call you crazy, yell or swear at you. Since this season's hunting season is actually on hand and really too late to negotiate well given he has the communication skills of a...<BR>Anyway, consider not bringing up the time he spends hunting this season one more time if agrees not to call you names, yell or swear and agrees that after hunting season, that together you take time to deal with the issues you have in the marriage.<P>What do you think? He's not going to stop hunting, anyway...and maybe by next season you will have made some headway.<P>Afterall I think it is the fighting right now that is so damaging more that the actual time away from each other.<P>And I understand you saying you do not want to stay out of obligation, I know what I mean, but I'm going to have to think awhile before I put it into words.<P>Another book to pull out and look over may be Fighting for Your Marriage by Markman, Floyd, Stanley, & Clements which I believe is all about communication (I have the Christian version)<P>Private Lies by Pittman may help you understand your affair a little better.<P>Distant Partner by Les Carter was good for me to understand where my H was coming from.<P>Love Life for Every Married Couple by Dr. Wheat may be a bit heavy and religious in parts, but the chapters on the five kinds of love in marriage and how to develop them where absolutely extrodinary to me.<P>Have a great time at Borders. <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Oh, Hum, I hurt for you. Truly I do. I hurt for both of you, because I think that you are both people of goodwill, but your H can't see past his own nose and you're hurting so badly you can't see him either.<P>It's clear that your H has some serious family baggage. I suspect that there was something about your close relationship with your family that attracted him at one time, and then when he saw the amount of interaction that closeness involved after you got married, it scared him to death, so now he pushes it away.<P>Your H sounds like one lonely guy -- in his heart. He's in a lot of pain. Look at how he plays "I'll reject you before you can reject me" with you. Look at how he pushes you away, and the more intimacy you want, the more frightened he becomes. Look at how afraid he is to become a father. Maybe he knows what he's doing. Look at how the more unhappy you are, the more he wants to go out killing animals. He's angry and he's frustrated and he's hurting and he's so bottled up from suppressing it that he doesn't know what to do with it. Sometimes he gets perhaps a bit violent with you, and it's like those little earthquakes in California -- they release some of the pressure for a little while so the Big One doesn't happen.<P>Maybe you know that about him and had some sort of rescue fantasy -- that you were the one who could ease his pain; who could make it all better. It sure would fit in with that "romantic" thing you have, now, wouldn't it? <P>Wuthering Heights -- that whole Heathcliff thing. You loved that book, didn't you? I'll bet you did. You thought Heathcliff and Cathy were a great love story, didn't you? Never mind that they destroyed each other, that was True Love, right?<P>Am I right?<P>I gotta be honest about this one, Hum...I'm not real optimistic. Your H is sitting on a lot more pain than you are. You have your family, and your words and this board and your friends to help you -- and you're willing to admit you need help. Your H turns to equally messed-up men and guns to help him -- and they don't help. <P>In a way, I almost feel worse for him than for you. Whatever happens, you will be OK. You are young and you know how to love because you were raised in a loving family. He will take himself with him wherever he goes...and because he's so "macho", he will never admit he needs help...he will never admit he's hurting.<P>That still doesn't mean you have to put up with this level of disrespect, though.

Hum,<P>I really think this has to do more with communication than anything. I am guessing that your H is pretty immature and that he has had it pretty good through your marriage. I dealt with these tantrums all through our marriage, tried to deal with them like you. Never did succeed at it.<P>Well we've dealt with them afterwards too. My W is the betrayer BTW. She is moved out and D is final in 1/00. Finally recently, she now responds more like an adult. It took sticking to calm without being patronizing. I think she is beginning to grow up, but that may not mean anything for us. I do enjoy watching the changes, but it's kinda sad too, because I cannot share it as a husband. I have also put up with ridacule and comments that I don't deserve, especially in public (w/ her family for i.e.) I have come to believe it is a defense mechanism and covers up for a serious inferiority complex. When it happens, I don't let it cascade because I understand it's based on her hurt. BUT, I also understand I can do nothing about it, it has got to be her work. <P>No matter what happens in our situation, when she does things like that or I see her heading that way, I prepare myself. <P>If I may... Give this a shot. I have seen big changes in myself (they're not the only ones who have something to learn, we can too! )as well as her, with this approach. <P>It takes practice, but to use the first sentence in your convo: He begins by telling you he's gonna give it hell, then (the defense), isn't gonna take any **** from you about it. Take off the end comments and his sentence doesn't sound all that bad. So disregaurd them, understand that it's his true weakness that is showing through by adding the end. You know it, I know it. <P>His mindset is not malicious; Attack before you're attacked. That way you'll avoid the pain and you'll get what you want, and you get to think you're in control and superior. Wow isn't he lucky to have it sooo figured out, he's got a perfect formula, right? WRONG. He doesn't know what he's missing or the pain he's set himself up for (because of your actions; the affair). He doesn't recognize his true reasons for being angry and unhappy (and spreading it around too) are because he acts this way. You can hide by blaming/hurting someone else, thta way you don't have to do it to yourself. Soon he will learn that his method is extremely flawed, self-centered and immature. It's up to you to begin teaching him, with compassion, because you care, not because you want to change him. He will see it as patronizing, if your head is not truley in the game. That's work YOU have to do... you have to mean it. It's for him, not you. If you do love him, it will be easier.<P>My lip was about chewed off from biting it, until recently. My W is healing slow but sure and growing up. I am truly proud of her, despite the fact it does not appear that it will benefit ME the way I would hope. I have suffered through this and, most likely, down the line it will end up being for another man's benefit. This has taken months to get to, but through this time something very wonderful HAS happened. I have grown as well, grown in patience, strength, compassion. No matter if we reconcile or I move on to another, I have been given this/these gifts from the process. I would submit that in order to heal what eventually will hurt (in your case, you haven't told him, right?), you both have work to do, hard work. Start now if you can, you will never regret it. This is just my spin, what worked in one aspect of my life. It's not advice as much as, my perspective. The best of luck and God bless!<P>Eric32<P>Eric32

Eric,<P>I will try but it's so hard. I've tried in the past to ignore "certain" comments, but my feelings get hurt. I'm so sensitive, I don't know how to put up a harder shell.<P>He gets so angry sometimes and says things that later on when I tell him what he's said, he doesn't even remember saying them. He'll swear he never said them. Maybe he blocks them out. I don't know.<P>I'll keep trying. Thanks. My husband did something last night that was very nice. I'm going to post a new topic. This is what gives me alittle hope.<p>[This message has been edited by Hummingbird (edited October 09, 1999).]

Hum,<P>Don't "ignore", the comments understand where they are coming from, if you try to do this you will begin to feel stronger, maybe less sensitive. If you can believe YOU are the one carry both of you, you'll feel better for it. Don't ask him later about it let it go. As you see results, you'll feel better about YOU and your situation. Please don't take offense, but maybe your work has to to with being to sensitive. It was some of mine too.<P>Good Luck,<BR>Eric32