First of all, I'd like to thank the Harley's for putting this site together and making the books available. Without your help, I would have been at a total loss in knowing how to deal with what I've gone through the last couple months.

Short version, W became friends with someone and decided she wanted to see where it could go. She was giving hints that something was about to happen, it did, and days later I found out what she'd done. I bought the books, read most of them and read the site, it's been a big help in understanding who I'm dealing with now (WS taken over by aliens), because she's certainly not the same W I've been with for the last 3 decades (we have several kids). I'm almost certain it's a mid life crisis fueled by excessive drinking that used to be harmless entertainment while being social.

It's now months later, and during that time, the lies have vastly outnumbered the truths, so much so that I don't know what to believe anymore. I'm in plan A, trying to stay positive and avoid arguments about the A. It is hard to avoid discussing it, she often tells me things about it to both get things out in the open, try to be honest, brag a little, and then lies afterwards to try to cover things up again. Mostly it seems that the truth is eventually known.

I've been told by WS that the A is over, several times now, and was just told again last night. It was different this time because WS said the OM now is back with his XGF, so she is both mad, sad, and looking for me to accept it being over as a defining moment in our M. She has said that if the OM wasn't there, there never would have been an A. Needless to say, I'm skeptical, the OM is a jerk, so his XGF now being a GF probably won't last long. Since the WS appears to be a cake eater (we've continued to be intimate) and has told me she will continue to flirt, drink, and up until last night, said that she would continue the A with the OM until it's over, I'm very skeptical that it really is over. She claimed last night she told him it's over, prior to then, she had never told him that and would not no matter how much I asked.

My problem with all this is that I'm not a wimp, but that I'm in love with the W of my youth and end up looking like a wimp for not leaving her when it started. I'm hopeful she'll come back to her senses, stop or cut back on drinking, and realize that life isn't half over, but that life is still going on as it's always gone on. Up until the A, she was the most loving person. Just prior to the A, I was neglecting her some for work, which she mistook as my not wanting to be with her. That was not how it was, but how she saw it. I'm hopeful that she'll come out of the fog, tell the truth from now forwards, and that the M can become strong again.

She's never done anything like this before, and a lot of it is related to drinking, her friends and what they say. None of them tell her it's wrong, but that she should be happy and do whatever she thinks will make her happy. None of them that I know of, believe God, and I expect that's influencing her in her belief as well as wrecking her morals. I've told both the WS and the OM that what they are doing is wrong with God, though it could take years for them to finally see it. All the relatives have been told about it.

I'm really missing the times before when I could talk with the W and didn't have to worry about if what she said was the truth or not. We both had influence on each other's lives then and could ask for things and expect the other would want them too, as givers. Anymore, it's her taking all she can get, and giving back lies in return. I've heard nearly all the standard replies a WS would give, and some things beyond and obscene when she's drunk. What's new now though is that she's now seeing the OM as the jerk he is in going back to his XGF and leaving her. Before now, she probably expected that she could convince him to eventually marry her and hoped I'd go away so that could happen, even telling me occasionally to leave, though still saying she wanted to be married.

My expectation at this point is that I'll know when the lies have ended and she's made a decision, when she tells me she's only interested in me, and me alone. I have not heard that the last couple months, which seems out of place because I would have expected that would have been the most common lie told, but she never it.

Cliff,

How long have you been in plan A? I ask because there will come a time when you may need to go to plan B. Plan B is NOT just separating and ceasing contact it is much more complex than that. I would strongly encourage you to start reading up on plan B and getting your plan B letter refined. The people here will help you do this.

My guess is that you are right and the A is not over, but may be in a "strategic withdrawal". Her words are the typical "fog" words. The main issue is really not her. It is YOU.

IF you allow your love bank to be drawn down, you won't have what it takes to recover the marriage when her A does end, and most of them do. If you are starting to feel it dwindle, then you need to be preparing for plan B. Plan B is NOT to bring your W back as many claim. It is to slow the withdrawal from your love bank that her affair and her lies are doing at a rapid rate now. If you don't speak with her, she cannot lie to you, right??

So hang in there, study up and prepare for plan B, and realize that you will NEVER regret giving your marriage this chance even if in the end you divorce her. You are not a wimp for hanging in there, as you well know this is tough stuff, and it is NOT for wimps.

Welcome to MB, and I think you will find the support and advice you need.

God Bless,

JL

Hi JL,

I've been doing plan A for about 2 months. There was a period of time before I found this site and got the books where I didn't know what to do and mostly withdrew love units. I think I've done better in plan A over time and have actually been able to help the WS see me as a person again. It's hard for me to believe it, but she has said recently that she doesn't want me hurt by this. The OM can not provide all the required emotional needs and has told her recently that he doesn't want to, even before he went back to his XGF. I think the WS was used by the OM, that she knew it at the time, but she expected she could win him over even when he said he wasn't interested in a long term relationship. It was or is a very superficial relationship that was built on lies. It's possible that plan A might be enough as the affair dies off and the reality settles in. Knowing about her emotional needs has been a big help in helping me show her that I can give her more of what she wants, while he can't and won't.

I agree that it could also be a strategic withdrawal, so I will finish up the plan B letter. I am worried that plan B could backfire as I'm almost certain I'd become weak and start dating soon after plan B starts. I don't like the thought of that, but I know I'll have to deal with that issue, and will hate it if it happens. It's not what I want. I'd rather be with my W. Should I date and find someone I love, I would probably then file for divorce soon after, which would probably be a mistake overall.

When I first read that plan A might take 6 months, I thought that was too long. Now I'm thinking he was probably right in picking 6 months as it would give enough time for the WS to see the reality of the OM, see their emotional needs now being met at an improved level by the BS, and the OM to make mistakes the WS wouldn't be wanting in a long term relationship.

God bless,

CS

Cliff,

6 Months of plan A is a goal. Some go longer, some go less. It depends on your Love Bank. If it starts to drop, then you need plan B to slow the loss. If you run out, then the likelihood of rebuilding the marriage is greatly diminished because recovery takes a long time.

As for dating while in plan B...NOPE. You are a married man, and you made vows that you would be faithful to your W. Dating comes after divorce and really much after because you will be carrying baggage from this mess. So plan B, goes on until your LB is below zero, THEN you file for divorce.

In all of these plans it is recommended that you set goals of say a month to 6 months out to reevaluate. Progress can be slow, so doing it every day will often mean you miss it. Set specific days for reevaluation and then make decisions based on THAT data, not the day to day stuff.

If you want your W back, playing the same game she has played will NOT help you and will lead to you harming yourself more than you realize. Your next relationship whether with your W or someone new, needs to be better and that comes with knowledge and learning. Take this time to do both.

God Bless,

JL

If her drinking is a detriment, it might be time for an intervention. Reading your post it sounds like alcohol has some power over her, if she can't have a social drink and must get drunk, and often, there's a huge red flag that there's a separate problem going on besides the affair.

They could also be cause and effect ...

If you want to save your M, dating sends the absolute wrong message - if you want to save your M, dating would not be an option.

Are you telling us that you are unable to be happy on your own? If you can't see yourself alone, that could also be something to work on for yourself, with some IC. Marriages and relationships don't complete us, they complement us. If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's that as individuals we need to be complete and content within ourselves - if we aren't, we're not good partners.

In support,

JinGA

Are you willing to attend ALA-NON meetings....

children....how many how old

Hi JL,

Yes, I agree, dating would be bad, but it is a fear I have that I would have to constantly keep in mind that it's not an option while being alone in plan B. I do not want to play the same game she is playing, but would like her to stop playing the game and get back to a healthy marriage. I am willing to forgive and I will try hard to forget. 6 months is my current goal for plan A. My love for her is pretty deep, I can probably last 6 months, I hope it has truely ended or will soon.

God bless,
CS

Hi JinGA,

Intervention might be a good idea, the A has been putting pressure on her and she's done some dumb things lately that have cost her. In discussing it she's begun to notice the negative side of drinking. The drinking has gotten worse over the last 5 years, I'm hopeful she will starting to cut back now that the OM has said he's going to see his XGF.

When I said feared that I might start dating in plan B, I should say that to me, dating is not sex, it's more socializing than anything. I know I would miss having female company during plan B, and that scares me, because I think I would be apt to fall in love with someone and then get a divorce if things didn't turn around. I know I would be happy on my own, but I would miss female company, going to dinner, going to movies, etc... My wish at this point is that it's over, and I can be with my W for the rest of my life. Time will tell if the roller coaster has stopped.

Good luck to anyone else going through this, I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

God bless,
CS

Hi Ark^^,

I would be willing to go to any counseling, but she has said anything church related she won't go. I think she fears moral discussions right now and doesn't want any reminders that it's wrong, the A, or the alcohol abuse. Children are teens to twenties. I don't think she feels alcohol is a crutch, but that she thinks it's fun during the mid life crisis. Some negative instances recently might turn that attitude around soon enough.

God bless,
CS

ala-non is not counseling...AND most importantly it has nothing to do with her and any of her avoidance thinking and behavior...

ALA-NON is for YOU and YOUR children...a place to learn how to exist in a world with someone abusing...

it is NOT about confrontation, blame, or powerstruggling...

IT is a HUGE HUGE HUGE message to her about YOU being WARRIOR for your children...

in spite of mid-life crisis psycho babble BS...

this is where you MAN-UP 1000000000000000000000000000000000% for the children.....

where you make it clear not by powerstruggling but by your actions that the children will not be dragged under by her...

Also you can not go to plan B by leaving the children with someone making such dangerous and poor decisions...YOUR plan B if it comes to it...is her removal from the home...

don't even think about abandoning the children to her...

that's part of why you need ala-non to deal with her....
justly
and
calmly

and as justlearning said..you can NOT even contemplate dating....
your children are at great risk to be exposed to all kinds of vile men...and you must not expose them to strange women..

your wife has put their well being at great risk....and YOU must not do the same....

part of your plan a must be engaging the children in great joyful activities and inviting her to join all the time...

ARK

Hi ARK,

I agree A.A. would be good for both of us and especially the kids. Part of the issue is to let her know that she's forgiven, so she doesn't take it out on herself and get drunk too much over it, and to also start to see alcohol as not a solution, but a problem if abused. She isn't drunk all the time yet, but she's getting drunk a bit too often anymore and it might be over the A and the OM not being what she expected. I told her before that the OM wasn't what she was expecting, when she said she wasn't expecting him to be anything. She was lying about it. It was obvious when he told her, she cried over him telling her he didn't care and wasn't going to do what she wanted.

I agree about dating in the sense of what it means today, today it means sex, I'm not after sex. I'm saying that I don't think I could handle 2 years alone, that doesn't work for me. I have to have someone to share life with, whatever life is. That doesn't mean sex, and that doesn't mean being emotionally committed to them for the rest of my life. But I fear that I'd start to love someone over time, and would have to watch out for that. I still don't know that the A is over, though it seems it is. Maybe I don't have to worry about 2 years in plan B. I know I would fail though if I do have to go through plan B, I'd fall in love with someone, get a divorce, and marry someone. I would hate it, however it goes, because I love my W and I've always loved my W.

I agree there are vile men and women out there. But there is no one good anyway but one, God. I'm not after hurting anyone, or hurting my W, or kids. I told the OM what he did was wrong and evil, I told my kids, I told my W, I told all the relatives. I hope the OM listened, I hope my W listened, and I hope they both find God, or come back to him.

No one should have to go through this, this is ****** on earth.

God bless,
CS