We have been having issues and are resolving them very nicely. There has been no A. We filled out the EN questionarre and I also told her along with myself to include "likes and dislikes" about each other.
One dislike I had was that she on occasion will hang out with a couple of guy friends. This bothers me alot and she knows this. One dislike she has is that I dont like her doing this and wishes I would give them a chance.
Frankly I dont want to. We have a young child together and these friends of hers are young and are partyers and drinkers and I dont think they are the kinda friends we should have. I dont think I can negotiate on this. She shouldnt be hanging out with other guys. I told her it can lead to more. Am I right on this and how should I handle this?

Have her read the information here.

In addition I would advise you find the book “Not Just Friends” by the late Dr Shirley Glass. If you both read that you will understand why you don't like it and she should not do it.

I offer this as a warning to your marriage not just a humble thought.

I had was that she on occasion will hang out with a couple of guy friends

how often is this often?

will hang out with a couple of guy friends

how/who are these friends....and is it with just the guys or are there wives/girlfriends there as well?

One dislike she has is that I dont like her doing this and wishes I would give them a chance.

are you saying that she asks you to come with her to these get togethers and you don't/wont' go..

are you saying she is saying you haven't invested any energy in to befriending them....

you realize when you villify them..you kind of villify her....

what are you willing to compromise on..

invite them over for a bar-b que...with limited alcohol..
invite them over for dinner on a sunday

go with her to meet with them for an hour..then take her somwhere fabulous....just the two of you...

how's the powerstruggling working for you.... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ARK

I went out once with them with her. These just arent the type of guys I want to hang out/associate with. I try to live my life right and do whats best for our kid.
These guys go drinking several times a week and hop in their car on occasion and cruise around town.
My wife was going out with them 2 times a week or so, but it has been 3 weeks now since she has. I have no problem if it were my best friend, but it isnt nor will they ever be.
How should I handle this. Yes I villified them and do on occasion if they call.

Brother, you have a marriage to protect and a child who's home needs to be protected.

Your W sounds immature.

It also sounds like she feels this need for male attention.

Has she ever been abused?

I would very strongly stand my ground on this. I did. I made it a big issue and I let my W know that her hanging out with young men was completely unacceptable to me and simply asking for trouble.

She resisted and complained but finally compromised.

I have encounted this issue constantly. This insistance that "she'd rather be friends with men because women are catty." The women I've heard that from have been victims of childhood sexual abuse. They have had this constant need for male attention to validate your own sexuality.

Nip this in the butt now and find out if there is something your W isn't telling you. Your marriage very much depends on it and the odds are that your shelf life is limited. If this isn't corrected then we will see you return to this forum as a BS who discovered that his W had a sexual encounter with one of her buddies while they were drunk at a party.

That is exactly what happened a few months ago to another guy on this forum. His W came here very remorseful and couldn't figure out why it happened. Well, months of "harmless flirting" eventually crossed the line, alcohol reduced inhibitions, and then things happened. Her H was even at the same party when it did.

Lo and behold, turns out she had sexual abuse in her past.

This is a monster red flag. Don't ignore it.

This is exactly what happened to me. You need to stop it NOW and deal with it....... or else you will be in for more hurt than you currently feel.

I still love my W and emotionally would like to be together....BUT......I now know what she is made of. I can never go back and possibly endure all the stuff I went through when she was "hangin' with her buds". She is a pretty woman and feels other women are jealous of her so she made no lady friends. That led to cheating, partying and not coming home till the Morning. I babysat our child through it all but she did not care. Her mom was married 4 times and she was sexually abused as a teen. Men are to be used, women are not to be trusted....That is her thinking.

Do you want pain? Try it out......

Oh I know. If this does continue (like I said she hasnt for 3 weeks), I will tell her she has to make a choice. Me or them. I will not bend on this. If she chooses them, then I will cut contact with her unless she cuts contact with them.
I know they are just friends but like I told her, Just friends can/will lead to more.

oh for heavens sake....

have you read the section on POJA...this is exactly one of the most important tools promoted by this site to deal with issues EXACTLY like this...

what I can tell you is that
approaching this as the end all be all mission of dying on a hill...

isn't going to work...

it's going to blow up in your face....

there is soooo much room for compromise in this situation....

there is sooo much disrespectful judgement from you and others at your wife.....that it will only come off as

controling
bully
judging
and
disrespecting...

this is NOT to say by any means that I agree with your wife wanting to go out drinking twice a week that is extreme...

BUT

I am still waiting for answers to my questions...

is it just men...that go...NO other girls ..just how many men exactly and they invite your wife and only your wife...

is that true.....

also you don't like them so that's it . you don't go ..you won't go...you won't try to be nice....

you won't agree to go for one drink the wisk your wife off somewhere fabulous..
or for a sexy tryst in the car.

no you'd rather villify her choice of friends...and hope that works in wanting her to spend time with you instead...

no compromise to have them over in other situations...

also are you taking your wife out to clubs....
if she likes to that
are you taking your wife and wining and dining her
and spending time with her

and meeting her recreational needs
and romancing her daily...

or are you powerstruggling and painting her in a corner...

she hasn't gone in three weeks...has she received heaps of praise for not going these past weeks...
with lots of fun evenings with you....

date nights candles lit....music on after the kid is asleep....

etc etc etc etc...

if you approach this issue with me or the highway....

you will set in motion the demise of this marriage....

she will concede for a few years and then blow this in your face..leaving you and taking the child...

in the name of you controling her and trying to tell her who she can and can not be friends...

what I am begging you to do
what I am imploring you to do
what I am saying you should do...

is POJA this issue....
with
LOVE
RESPECT
and heaps of things you are willing to offer..

not this is it
this is the ultimatum
this is how it's gonna be...

doomed to fail is that approach.....

but hey...what does marriagebuilders know about making marriages work....

ark

Thanks ark. Is your alter-ego Yoda?
Great advice. You are right.

I need to re-think it.
I read all this site suggests.
Guess it was anger talking.
I have gone out with them with her.
And would again.
No I wont give her ultamatums

I'm just telling you that this is a huge red flag. If you can find a compromise on this then great.

If, for example, she agrees to not hang out with them alone and without you, that's a different thing.

Set your boundary, though and see if you can gently have her see the light by steering her to literature on the subject.

No... it isn't anger talking... it is common sense... your wife should NEVER be out drinking with men without you... PERIOD!
YOu have said nothing disrespectful... no matter how much people will tell you that you have. You have stated fact... they are partyers.... they go out drinking several times per week and that is not the type of person you want to hang around with.
Your wife should not be out spending time with male friends. Read what Dr. Harley has to say on the subject.
I would firmly stick to your guns and let her know that her actions are harming the M. POJA would say that if you cannot entusiastically agree to this... it should NOT happen. I suggest that you follow some of Arks advice and have them over for a barbecue (preferrably with their girlfriends) and go out with them on occasion in settings that you are comfortable with.... less alcohol comes to mind.
Her behaviors are a HUGE red flag... and I can tell you that I would be suspicious that she is up to something more.... just a guess on my part.

MEDC

I don't disagree it's a flag...

but you gotta look at this from a mutlitude of sides...

generally speaking women in a marriage are typically the social facilitators...

women typically suggest/plan/execute the social calendar...

men typically agree to go along with it....

some with great input...
some with ...whatever you want honey....


OR worse.....say no thank you......
leaving the spouse lonely and sad....

WHEN you have a spouse that likes to do things socially...it does the marriage NO good to deny this need of your spouse....

This is the time for the other spouse to actively engage the social spouse...and seek things and plan things for with and together with them...

NOT dig your feet in the ground

Also social situations for women often can and do meet needs for attention....

I love it when my friends say...

your hair looks great
nice boots!!
etc...
(I don't like it when they call me yoda though....!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SOOO
I like those things...

BUT
BUT
BUT

I ADORE it when those same remarks, comments come from my hubby...

it makes my heart sing....
when he notices a new outfit...
nice hair....

etc etc etc

and he does this often...and it motivates me to keep being someone who is the object of his affection....


I am a very social person...
I love going out with my husband...
and I love going out with good friends for good times and good conversation...
AND
having people over....

and I love that my husband helps to facilitate all those things....

I'm not sure litature fills need as much as attention
romance
and special things....

We do date night often at home....
run the kids in to the ground so they are sound asleep by nine ..

and then it's our time to reconnect....
sit outside with some wine...and look at the stars..
play some music..etc etc etc

marriage is a dance of NOT ever ever ever becoming overwhelmed with life...

life happens
crap bills laundry homework happen....

can't stop it...

but any chance to make that mundane tuesday a little special....

yeeehaaaa....

motivates each spouse to do for the other.....

ARK

well we KNOW she's up to something...

she left him for a time...

and according to him...he spent years putting her down...

and then she had enough...

it's no great surprise she went off looking for validation...

I'm not excusing her actions....
by any means...
but it's not rocket science why she is going this route...

if you read the other posts.....

this is exactly the time NOT to address HER changing..but for watingfor...to show her HIS changes....

NOT putting her down

NOT making paying off bills the greatest goal in life...which doesn't mean the bills don't need paid off...
but if that becomes the priority...
with no other focus...

bleeechhhhh

this is marriage builders correct....
not

ultimatums.com....

or am did I get lost somewhere....

ARKie

I think women can be very naive about men. We are sexual creatures and do jump at an opportunity.

As a man, I recognize this weakness and therefore chose to have very limited contact with female friends when I was married.

I also recognize that men are generally "friends" with woment they find attractive. There's not a single female friend that I have that I wouldn't sleep with if she was willing to do so now that I'm not married or that I wouldn't pursue a relationship with if given the chance.

So, no, he is not being naive. He is right in recognizing the threat. He is very right to be uncomfortable about it. He is right to state his discomfort in a way that lets her know she is doing something that makes him very uncomfortable.

Why can't these guys come to their home and hang out with them as a couple? Why does alcohol have to be involved?

There is no need to do this.

And Ark, I'm sorry, but you yourself sound like someone who would be vulnerable during a rut. Sure, it's nice to be complemented, but what if your H suddenly stops for some reason? Are you going to lose heart that he isn't stroking your ego every day? Will the "friends" suddenly become more attractive because they do?

Do you have a need to get those complements and attention from men to validate your own sexuality?

These arent' attacks, they are legitimate questions.

His wife sounds very immature and like a woman with low self esteem that feels the need to get the attention of other men to feel attractive.

This is a recipe for disaster and he has every right to do something about it now before he gets the, "We were drunk and it just happened! I'm so sorry!"

I've read to many stories on this forum from men who had this mindset of absolute trust for their wives and then got burned for it.

Friends of the opposite sex in a marriage are a dangerous thing that need to be approached with strong limits and respect for the spouse. This applies to both men and women.

You are right that how he approaches this issue is important, but you don't invite the fox into the hen house and then act surprised when it eats the chickens, which is what you're proposing.

YOu know Ark... you like to come across as this guru of MB... NOT one thing suggested here was outside of MB..... POJA says she shouldn't go if he can't enthusiastically agree... Dr. H himself warns about male/female relationships... he's being responsible and I suggested he bend to involve these people in a way that works for him and his wife...
WHERE was the ultamatum????

It's time to drop the zen approach and get real...his wife needs to stop this behavior before it leads to something more sinister. ... if it hasn't already.

oy-veh...

I never said he was being naive..
I never said it wasn't a red flag...
I never said she shouldn't do it...

Why can't these guys come to their home and hang out with them as a couple? Why does alcohol have to be involved?

that's been my suggestion several times...
I am under the impression that HE hasn't wanted encouraged or facilitated that....

that's what what I got from his other posts...

Do you have a need to get those complements and attention from men to validate your own sexuality?

no..
I never go out with guy friends...and though I love my girlfriends....when they say...nice boots ARKie...it doesnt' do anything for me sexually....

I said the compliments I adore are from my husband...and I work very hard at pleasing him...

and I work very hard at NOT getting in to any type of rut....

RUTS don't happen...they occur from a direct result of our actions!!!!


insidious perhaps....but not on their own..
they happen when we become overwhelmed
when we take eachother for granted
when we act selfishly....

I don't like ruts...
so I mix it up all the time...to avoid them...

marriage is always a work in progress...a great great labor of love...


His wife sounds very immature and like a woman with low self esteem that feels the need to get the attention of other men to feel attractive

I agree with this....and according to this poster there is an underlying root cause of him putting her down for three years....
till she broke....

she's very wounded and very vulnerable...

she left him infact....


and she herslef has shown positive signs of wanting this to work...
so if he drops the gauntlet hard without love and trying to fix himself...
it will blow up in my opinion....

that's all my posts are my opinion...

I walk the line my friend...well aware of human nature to be wired for affairs...

I hold my husband near and dear to my heart....at all times...

ps while I do believe that men are wired to be sexually stimulated by visual stimuli...I do not believe for one second they are wired to jump at any and every opportunity..

ark^^

YOu know Ark... you like to come across as this guru of MB

boy medc that sure was mean..I don't think that I like to come accross as anything...

I am who I am
I post my opinion as I type it...

I believe strongly in using marriage builders with great love and humility.....
and that if you keep that at its core...
you will come through it a good person...regardless of the outcome...

it's a fine line...and perhaps even a new approach for this poster....to not just say he doens't like...but to change things in the marriage so the NEED to go out with guy friends dissappears....

In fact I'd bet a lot of money he has already stated over and over and over how much he doesn't like it...

and it hasn't worked....

I'm saying try something new and different....

sheeesh in one morning I've been called YODA and a GERU...

I think I am starting to prefer being called mary tyler moore...

cause after your comment...I'd surely be crying in MR. GRANTS office...... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
ARKie.....

You are kinda painting a bad pic of me, ARk. I know in past posts i said i have put her dowm for things and it is partly true. But not to the extent u seem to be making it. Most of it was because of her wanting to do things that only she wanted to do as opposed to things as a family.(exp. she loves hunting, i dont, it is nothing for her to hunt 4 days a week.).
I have said she shouldnt hang with other guys and am not changing my view on this. As far as me going out with them....maybe sometimes. Like I said, they arent the right company when you have kids.(partyers...what else do i need to say). I dont do anything with other girls, they dont call me....I expect the same from her. Her having guy friends.....sure. Her doing things with them.....no.

I must be missing something posted on other threads. If he has played a role in her low self esteem, then yes, he needs to recognize and address.

I also think it is great that you recognize the type of work needed to keep a marriage strong and the fact that we are wired to be vulnerable to cheating.

Yes, a new approach is what is needed here.

And you are absolutely right about men jumping at every opportunity. Not all of us would. Some of us are better at controlling it than others. I'm merely stating that we as men are very much wired to be opportunistic. Our ability to go from zero to "ready to procreate" in seconds is biological proof of that.

Very simply, some of us control this better than others, so you're right, not all of us would act on such an impulse. But oh so many would and would do so driven by hormones and no conscience.

I personally wouldn't do it, not with a married woman, but others don't have that inner voice of conscience.

waitingfor..

I used your words...

and I realize very strongly how flat screened this dimension of of communication is...

I am not trying to say you were awful...infact better is the chance of recovery when there were "warning sigs and dissatisfaction" prior to such behaviors...then wacky out of the norm behavior from no where....

cause it gives you a starting place to work on..

I am not saying she should go out and party with men...

I am saying you need to choose your plan of attack and communication on this issue carefully...

or your own words will be used as weapon against you...

policy of joint agreement....POJA is a tool used in a marriage when both parties are atleast committed to making to work...

it usually does not work when communication has broken down...and when both spouses are not on board...

my opinion is you would be much better served in plan Aing the going out....

meaning..

you set up dates with you and your child that are outdoor things...

take her on a picinic
go deer spotting....
plan things out doors...

hiking
walks

meet that need...

find couples with small children and make friend and or invite them over....for an evening of nachos
let the kids run around...
let the grownups kick back....

If you put down the friends as low lifes...which they may be....you will also be putting her down.....
which is why I say choose your words carefully

also what actions have you brought to the table to entice her in to other activities...or was the choice..
don't go hunting
stay home with us...

why did you marry someone who loves to hunt so much if you hate it..

did you think you would change
did you think she would change...

curious on that one....

my suggestion

Plan A the need to go out with guys by filling it up with changes in you....

and the need to that can shift

by your other posts....your wife is interested in being with you....

I think the natural progession of going out with the guys is really how empty and meaningless it is...
but you gotta come up with other options
that intrigue and entice her...

ARK