HM --

This is not Plan A.

No....do not show him this. Do not bring up him calling her. Ignore the situation completely.

This does not make you look good.

At this point, with you and WH being separated -- you emailing his ex-wife makes you look controlling and manipulative. Your intentions may be pure and good -- but ex-wife is NOT your ally, and she is not going to help you.

Stay away from her and stay away from OW. Don't try to use their negative behavior to make you look good. Just look good on your own.

I actually did this A LONG time ago. She is just now responding. WH told me he had talked to her this weekend, and that she was same as ever.

OK...I won't bring it up.

CAN'T WAIT TO SEE HIM!!!!!

Atta-girl!!!

Be bright, bubbly, happy, fun!
Have a great time....just like when you were first dating!

HM,

Lexxx is Right. Let go of the XW. You will get nothing but lies & troubles down that path.

ENJOY the positives of Plan A. Have a great night tonight!

I'll be away a few days (work work work!)

Looking forward to your update!

So last night WH showed up. He seems to run every other day between H and WH. Last night was totally a WH night.

He was trying to get out of coming over, to which I replied as sweetly as possible to every excuse. He finally said Fine, I will come over if it makes you happy. I said great see ya soon!

He kept trying to talk about the R, and I kept changing the subject. I need advice on how to talk about the bar job. He wants to talk about it, and I am not sure what to say. Last night he FINALLY said he realizes it isn't a good place for him to be. He is tired of it there, but likes the guy friends and more or less the every night party. BUT I am SO SHOCKED he admitted he knows he needs to leave there, but is worried about money.

He also brings up this supposed woman who has his phone # that sends him lovey dovey texts. I told him that was inappropriate. He still claims well I can't control what they send me. I said you had control over giving her your phone number. The odd thing...the name he gave me was the name of our babysitter. I know it isn't her...but it kinda seemed like he could have been making it up and used her name? What are the odds of that?

He did realize though that those things wouldn't happen if didn't work there, so he is VERY conflicted about that.

He also admitted to being conflicted over OW.

He left the house because He wantd to talk, and I wouldn't. I said OK, I will see ya later in a happy voice, and he wasn't expecting that. Once I said OK, he stopped at the door and just sighed. He said he was tired and wanted to get a divorce. I said I don't do divorce, and will not divorce you. He rolled his eyes at me and with a lovely smile said You are so stubborn!

Ahout 5 inutes after he left, he called to ask if he could sleep on the couch tonight. i said of course you can.

Around 9, he was trying to call me, but my phone was busy. I was talking to my friend A. Well, I finally talk to WH and I get "Who were you talking to? Your phone was busy and who was it?" I said I was talking to A, and he got kinda nasty and says I am not stupid. I have to go to work now..bye.

I sent him a text saying I was talking to A, and that I am not seeing anyone. I am married. He says I wish you would find someone and just let me go. I want a divorce.

Again i repeat NO DIVORCE!!!!

Then the attitude changed. He was joking about coming over to the house. He was trying to be cute and say he wasn't coming. Well, I had fallen asleep and didn't get the message. So he called and in a panic said "Did you get my message?? I was joking..I am coming over ok? Don't be mad and I thought you were when you didn't respond" I said it was ok...and went to bed.

He text me later asking if I hated him. He does that A LOT. I said I don't hate you. See ya later.

He wants to spend the night again tonight. He wants to just play and be happy today. And then try to not have to work at the bar and stay with me!!

OH!! I FORGOT A VERY IMPORTANT PART!!! He told me that the night that he and OW got into a huge fight and she called me, it was because she was pushing him to get a divorce, and he doesn't want to. Then when He left her apt, and said he was done, he told her it was so he and I could take things slowly! SHE IS DIGGING HER GRAVE!! I really don't have to work to hard at this do I?

Well, he just sent me a text saying he has to work late and can't make it to see us inbetween jobs. He asked that I come see him at his day job to pick up some money.

I asked if his plan was to still come over after bar job...he won't answer me. About a hour later I sent a text saying the patio door is open and the blankets will be downstairs if you want to come.

I bought him a beautiful I miss you/I love you card. I wanted to lay it on the pillow for when he got there. I hope he comes over! Pray for me...

You do realize that when you are nice to a WS, it makes them want to be mean and nasty to you. This often results in broken promises.

So the question you need to ask yourself is why do you cater to the WS vs your real H?

Go back and read your previous 2 threads again. Notice how he sways back and forth. He admitted the OW is pushing for D. That is a good sign for you. Tell him you don't do D's but don't say you won't D him. Big difference.

IMHO, you've got to cater less and RB more.

L.

Orchid can you please pick apart my post and help me learn what exactly I did wrong? I basically walked away from him the time he was there. I did not want to talk to him that way, but he was there seeing the kids. When I walked away he followed. The little tidbits I got were from him saying the one liners and then me saying I am not talking about this and walking away.

I wasn't nice. More nonemotional.

ANd yes, broken promises are my biggest problem with him right now. HOW do I stop that???

And re,mind me on what RB is???

HM,

You asked me to comment on your previous post, so I picked
this one. Btw, you asked what RB was, it stands for reverse babble. You can read examples of such in my signature link:


Orchid: It is important you set the stage of WHO you choose to communicate with. I recall when I would see H morph into the WS (sometimes in mid sentence - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ), I would end the convo immediately. Had to. WS' don't have ears. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Why did he try to bring up the R? If the WS is doing so, disengage. If your H is, discuss it as reasonably as possible. If you find yourself getting too emotional, disengage. Your real H would understand.

Doesn't matter his reasons for liking it there, question is about what is your family worth? Dont' debate the small stuff. Stick to 1 point of having him assess the value of his family to him. Do not argue, just bring up the subject, then let him ponder. Don't even wait for an answer. WS' are slow to respond. Could take days or weeks. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: This is babble. Learn to distinguish the difference. Best way to offset babble is to look him square in the eye (or if on the phone, just plainly respond like):

WS: blah....blah...babble, babble, babble....

BS: Oh really... say Ws, if someone were to babble that kind of stuff to you, would you buy that line? I mean it doesn't make sense to me. It does to you?

NOTE: This technique basically gives the WS back their guilt. Your H would understand so your response will leave you hurting less. This is a type of RB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Ok, this is good info. Store it. File it away. One day you w/b able to use this info. Do NOT be anxious to throw it in his face. RE: At this point, it is H admitting but the WS is right there ready to pounce. Throw the Ws a curve ball but just hearing the info w/o reacting.

Example:

WS: I am confused.

BS: I can see that. Thanks for letting me know. (then walk away).

The WS needs to see you leave him in his confused state. The WS often baits the BS with these tidbits of reality. If the BS tries to turn this type of interaction into a learning session, the WS bolts.

Be tactical. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Ok, this was tactical and good. He mumbled about a D but you know that's what WS' do. He wants you t/d the dirty work and you should let him know that while you can't 'control him' (WS' own words thingy), you are NOT ready t/d the D....yet. Stress the YET. The WS also want to control WHEN the BS does things, so the word YET is deadly to them. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Remember this technique.



Orchid: Ok, it is a conditional request. He asked politely, you have the option to allow it or not. Do NOT feel guilty if you need to decline if YOU are not feeling safe around a WS. You may find his nice disposition can turn ugly if you refuse him. That is when you will see the real perosn asking was the WS pretending t/b the H. Scary tactic that you need to be able to identify.



Orchid: Yea.... let the WS wonder. Let your answers be vague. The tactic here is to make him wonder what you and your family are up to. This gives the A less time. LOL!!

When he says stuff like he is not stupid, don't respond. Let him hear his words. I used to just say: Hm....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />



Orchid: Lighten up on this one. While you can let him know you can't control him, let him know you are not ready t/d the D.... yet.


Orchid: Cute by scaring you? Hm.. not funny. Let him know that. His panic is because he does know it was meant to hurt. Let him know those kind of insensitive jokes are NOT appreciated. This is a boundary you are setting. Do NOT accept or say these types of actions are ok.


Orchid: What do you think you should do? Let him have his way or implement your personal boundaries? After his joking episode, I would bring up the point like;

WS: I want to spend the night again.

BS: Well.... let me think about it and I'll get back to you.

WS: WHAT?!??!?

BS: I will call you later.

WS: When?

BS: Later.

(a few hours later - be reasonable - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> )

BS: Hi, ok I have thought about it and wondered if you do come, will it be to share some of those hurtful jokes like your previous txt msgs?

WS: No.

BS: Will it be to share hurtful info?

Ws: No.

BS: You sure?

WS: Yes.... why are you asking soo many questions. Maybe I don't want to stay.

BS: Ok. Bye.

WS: Wait.... wait.... I need a place to stay.

BS: Well I gotta know the answers to my questions. They are important to me. I do not like people hurting me. Do you?

Ws: No. Ok, I'll try.

BS: No, you either don't hurt me or stay away.

WS: Ok.

******************************

That's my take. In some instances, the WS gives up and stays elsewhere. If this happens, the BS should not be alarmed. Instead you s/b grateful because you probably saved yourself from a night of hurtful convo with a WS.


Orchid: He tells you this because he is trying to garnish your sympathy. Do NOT fall for it. This is not as important as you think. Read you post on this point again. He is trying to make the OW take the blame. See? He isn't loyal to anyone. Even the OW. .... and yes, the OW is digging her own grave.... If you play your cards right, you can cause them to continue to LB even without you lifting a figner. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I call it 'LB from afar'. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

He was doing exactly what you said about changing mid sentence from H to WH. He wanted to talk about finances, so we did. He is so worried about money.

He keeps telling me his scared.

I will post more tomm. I have to leave work now...thanks Orchid. That is EXECTLY what I needed!!!! That helped me so much. I need that to help me realize what I am doing wrong and how to correct it. Sometimes I am really clueless!

HM,

Sorry it was hard to read. I had to go back and redo my 'quote' setup.

Glad you got the gist of it though. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

It's scary when they morph, eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Orchid it is the WEIRDEST thing!

I walked to my MIL this morning. SHe had talked to WH last Sunday about all of this. She claims that he told her he was trying to leave OW and wanted out of her house. He also told her he wanted to come home to me, but is afraid of doing it for the wrong reasons. She told him thinking and doing are two different things.

The good thing about MIL, is she also recognizes the difference between WH and H. She and I talked about that at great lengths. I am glad she can tell because she will adjust accordingly.

Last night he wanted me to stop by his work and get some money for the girls. I text him when I was close, and he was already sitting in his car waiting for me.

WH: Why didn't you call me?
ME: I sent a text just in case you were still inside and couldn't answer your cell
WH: Here is the money. I hope it is enough for now.
ME: Yes thanks. i have to go. I have to be somewhere and I am running late.
WH: Ok see ya

and when he said that he looked SO DOWN. He immediately got up from leaning on my car window and just turned around and walked away. I haven't heard from him since! I left him a voicemail this morning telling him good morning, how was your night last night, call me when you can I love you and have a good day.

No answer! I may get a call when he gets off work.

And about the leaving him in conflict part...I did do that. I went to hug him and he said I am so confused. I said I know hon. I can see it. Gave him a big squeeze and sent him on his way!

HM,

Orchid has you going in the right direction here!

Only advice I can possibly add here is to read, and re-read Orchid's analysis post above. I just read it myself for the 4th time. I re-read stuff all of the time and find I continue to "get" something out of it each time.

Keep up the great work!!

i agree Bug. THAT is what I need to perfect the Plan A. I need to analyize everything so I can see what I am doing wrong. I also read it about 4 times.

Was amazes me is that some of the things he said...I bought and went AWE!! He is trying poor him...NOPE!!! I fell for EXACTLY what he wanted.

I love when posts get picked apart. I learn so much from it.

Well Tomm. is my 29th birthday and WH has a bizillion excuses why he can't come over. I just said OK, the kids and I are still having a party, so if you if you have time you are still welcome.

I know not to expect anything, but it still kinda hurt.

The kids and I are going to have dinner, cake and ice cream, and I want to get Night at the Museum. I heard it was really good.

Truthfully, I am kinda sad I have to make my own Bday cake. WH always did that for me. But I will have fun anyway!

HEY! Tomm. I will be a CAKEEATER!!!

Well The WH was back again today. He keeps asking me to just let him go. Then he apologizes for everything that we have been through. He keeps telling me he isn't worth it. That he is a bad person for all of this.

I told him I am not ready for a D yet, and I will not talk to him about anything other than rebuilding our marriage.

I tried to change the subject but then he apologized and just stopped talking.

In the middle of this conversation, he was asking me what my plans were for my bday, and if he could come stay with the kids so I could go out and have quiet time. I said sure! SEE !! He flips mid sentence!

Is this entirely fogspeak?

Well this weekend was somewhat uneventful.

Sat he came over and was going to mow the lawn. I walk over to him to say hey and he starts about money.

WH: I will write you a check to make it legit so you can't tell CSEA I haven't been paying you
ME: Ok..are you planning on filing?
WH: Yes, seeing how you WON'T
ME: No, I am not.
WH: I am just tired of this
ME: Tired of what? Of me?
WH: Of everything. I need stability in my life
ME: And divorcing me is going to give you stability?
WH: No, that is not what I am trying to say
ME: WHat are you trying to say?

Then he starts the mower and that was that. I came up to him and hugged him and told him I was happy he was there.

Throughout the day we grew more affectionate toward each other. I hugged him SEVERAL times and he not once pulled away. I even grabbed his butt a lot and he would smile, and not pull away.

He offered to watch all the kids so I could go out and have some fun for my b-day. He also wished me happy b-day several times through the day. It was nice..

Then he left and said he would be back around 5 for dinner. He never showed or called.

Sun morning he called to wish me happy mothers day. I was on the phone for literally 5 seconds and his mom called. He never called me back..

I called his mom to say HMD and she said:

MIL: I talked to WH today
ME: Oh yeah? How was he?
MIL: I want you to know the end is in the horizon
ME: What do you mean? Did he say something?
MIL: We didn't talk a lot about that, but the way he was talking about everything, I got the impression this is almost over.

I called her last night and said I am frustrated today. If he said something please tell me. I need some hope. She never called back.

WH did text me though. He was out with his friends at a bar. He said he drank Fri, Sat and Sun night until he was puking drunk. I am not sure I believe that. I know he likes to get my sympathy.

I did tell him I was worried about the drinking. He said Don't worry about me..I am not worth it. How do you respond to that? It was so depressing!

I did not do a Plan FU, or ANY LBing...so I made it through ONE WHOLE WEEK OF PLAN A!!!!! And I thought it couldn't be done!!

OH! Iforgot to mention...He brought up Friday nights supposed drinking. He said it was nice to go and then not have to deal with any reprecussions.I said there are reprucussions, you just haven't seen them yet. I said is that why you don't want to come home? He said no. That was the end of that. I just had to ask. That actually really made me mad. Thinking he can do what he wants and nothing will happen to him.

What the he11 IS that?!!!

My STBX used to do that. How are we stopping THEM from doing anything.

She left, I didn't stand in her way.

She continued to see OM, I didn't physically get involved.

I never went to her appt. After exposure I quit snooping. I never spied on her.

I was living my life alone, doing just fine, but she would ask me to LET HER GO. I never gave her the satisfaction. I always told her NO. I was trying to save the marriage.

I always told her I was doing what I had to do. I always told her to do what she had to do. I wouldn't stop her. If she wanted D, then go file.

Well, she finally went over the edge and I had to file D to protect DS, but I still won't tell her I'm letting go. The day we were in court I told her this isn't what I wanted. That was after I got EVERYTHING.

Jun 1 I WILL be letting her go and I WILL tell her.

I guess they do that b/c they don't want to feel guilty anymore. If we tell them we're through then they can act like WE gave up. WE ended the M.

I one finger salute all WS's who spew this line of [email]cr@p.[/email]

Holy, NEVER tell him you're letting go unless you absolutely mean it and have felt that way for a while. Don't let it be a knee jerk response.

Sorry about the reaction. That line is a MAJOR trigger for me. Plus I'm going through an angry stage with STBX.

Have a nice day. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I KNOW!! Do they need our permission to go? Because I am not gonna give it to him!!

I have taken the same stance you have. This is what *I* am doing. You can do whatever you want..but if you REALLY wanted to be rid of me..you would have done it by now. And he even admits to that!

What is wrong BC? I am CERTAINLY not a pro...but I have read some of your posts and you CRACK ME UP!!!