LG-
The bar is his second job. He does have a real day job. One of my WH's EN's is the ability to financially take care of his family. If we can't get everything we want/need right now, he feels the need to get another job. He right now works 2 full time jobs, which interferes with my top EN, which is family commitment.

About picking a house...Can I tell him upfront...you come here to sleep you better plan on staying here with all your belongings HERE or else go back to W's. Sound good? Or keep with your idea...

About the check..that was from his day job. He thought that just because he has the money direct deposited into his account, that it was ok. I said what about the paper stub??? That still goes there!! I got "oh yeah"

I get angry because HE should be thinking of these things and he just doesn't!! Granted he has always been a little lazy when it came to things like this...I always did them. He even asked me to get a change of address form from the Post office so he could fill one out for the mail going to her house.

Thanks LG...I need help with the boundary follow up

My WH used to have a REALLY BAD temper. That is one of the things I have seen a change in.

One night his temper was going and he smashed a lamp. I threw him out. I will not tolerate that anymore. Funny how I have no problem enforcing that boundary. Why the others?

I was told by a friend that he started seeing her around Christmas. He left our home the first week in Dec. I told him that his timeline makes me think he knew he was gonna do this before he left. If not...he didn't grieve the marriage very long. He claims he did this for so many reasons I could go on forever.

My boundaries....

1) No house jumping. Mine or his. As LG said..you come home the next time you remove your clothes you do it for good.

2) I want a commitment to this marriage

3) You have 2 months to quit the bar regardless if you have found another job. ( I am telling you know this one is the problem)

4) No contact with her ever again. ZERO exceptions. You got your clothes and your check...never again..


So do I tell him to his face or write a letter?

Define 'committment to this marriage' in actions...words are just words...tell him what you want to SEE him doing to meet this criteria.

Two months to quit the bar??? Does that mean he won't be moving back home until then? I would suggest that you not allow him to move back in UNTIL he quits the bar...right now, coming home is the only 'leverage' you have on him...once he's in, there'll be no pressure for him to move forward and complete this other than you nagging him.

Make all of this a requirement BEFORE you allow him to come home. That way, no nagging. You're not forced to look like the bad person hounding on him...make sense?

OWL I just had a horrible evening and morning.

Last Night:

He shows up unexpectedly. Girls and I are outside eating dinner and he sits down with his checkbook and asks How much do you want?

ME: Enough to pay the daycare for the next 2 weeks
WH: I can't do that. Here is 350
ME: We agreed on 2 full weeks.
WH: I can't. Sorry.
ME: I need cash to pay her, not a check. You told me you were writing checks so you could prove to CS that you were paying me.
WH: I forgot to get money. Sorry. and he writes the check.
WH: Can I take a shower?
ME: Fine

Now he goes inside. He comes back downstairs BONE DRY. The shower was wet, the curtain overlooking the driveway was slightly open, and the bathmat was dry. I have a chair under the window in the bathroom, and it had a couple sprinkles on it. My thought? He left his phone in the car. he faked taking a shower to see if I would snoop in his truck. I didn't. He came downstairs.

WH: I am gonna stay at W's tonight.
ME: Good.
WH: Why Good?
ME: You know why.

He goes back inside

WH: Leave the front door open and I will be here after the bar.
ME: If you come here it better be with all your belongings in tow.
WH: Then I am going to W's
ME: OK

then he tries to be cute. He says he is leaving and I just sat there and said ok bye!

This morning I am on my way to work and just came to the realization that I have to sell my house. I don't want to. CS told me to expect to wait months. I said tell the mortgage company that.

On my way to work I run out of gas. Can't call anyone, I don't have a phone. A really nice woman stops to help me. Lets me use her phone, takes me back to her car, is so kind and said as a christian I cannot see you going through this by yourself. I cried. She said she was running late and I said I was actually runnign early. We decided we were meant to cross paths. She was a minister.

She says to me please call me if you ever need anything. She hands me her card. NO CHIT SHE WAS THE OW'S NEIGHBOR. I just cried. i went and sat in my car and sobbed. Someone does something so nice and then I get that trigger. WHY?? WHY. That is all I want to know. On a day where I have had enough @ss kicking...why that too.

Then I call WH. Crying. Tell him everything that happened. He says I swear I want nothing to do with her. I unloaded. I said you arent doing what I NEED you to do. You are only spending more time with me. There are some MAJOR things I need uou to do.

WH: What do you want me to do. (said very nicely)
ME: You know what
WH: I need the $ and can't quit yet. It isn't about women
ME: I need to sell the house
WH: WHAT!! I have been giving you so much money for the last 6 months and you can't pay?
ME: You STOPPED giving me anything. I don't make that much and have been on 35 hour weeks. I then have to pay mortgage, daycare, car, and care for 4 kids...do the math.
WH: even if I came home we couldn't afford that house
ME: YES WE WERE FINE. Look, if you aren't coming home I am selling it.
WH: i can't talk now. I have to go.

I sobbed through the whole converstion.
why me.

(((Holymoly)))) Cyberhugs girl!!

I am concerned about his commitment to the marriage that he will not a quit a stupid job. I would have moved to a deserted island to save my marriage and family if she would have gotten her head out of her [censored].

This stupid job is supplying something more than money. Its supplying some need, maybe the need to be the center of attention, to have regular friends he knows and can count on seeing every week, a fresh supply of drunk, loose "talent" (i.e. women) or something.

I am more concerend about you and the children's financial well being right now. I wonder if you shouldn't get something more formal in place, LSA, temporary support/custody hearing, etc. in order to insure you and the children have a place to live and something eat.

Thank you HaP. I need all the hugs I can get.

he claims the people at the bar give him respect. That is truly one of his top EN's. He says guys bigger than him know they can't mess with him. I gather he more or less enjoys being a bully. You do what I say or I get to throw you out.

I am terrified about the money. I have tried everything. NO one will help.

That is my other problem. He has ZERO commitment to me. He only has a partial commitment to his girls. I know I can't make him want one...but if he doesn't want one then STOP PLAYING ME. I really can't do this anymore.

My phone is shut off. Last night (after he left) I had the most peaceful night. I didn't have the stress anyone bothering me. I just relaxed and did what I wanted without interuption.

Is this the time to go to Plan B??

It sounds like it is to me.

You've got him WANTING to be with you. But NOT wanting to commit. That's a good indicator that your plan A worked.

Your lovebank is starting to go empty. That means its time to start protecting it from more withdrawls from him.

I would start drafting that plan B letter. I'd also contact a lawyer (I think you may have already) and start working out a game plan to take care of yourself and your kids.

I'm not much of an advice giver, but I do dispense hugs on demand, so here you go

((((Cajun Bear Hug))))


you do need some kind of financial protection though. CS needs to be legal if it isn't. You need garaunteed money for the babies.

and I'd say he has some serious self esteem issues. He needs the ATTENTION he gets, not the respect. It makes him feel HIP and COOL to be a bar room bully. Might have something to do with a fear of growing up. Well, bar rooms are FAKE and the attention is SUPERFICIAL and SHALLOW. It's not REAL, but he is addicted to it just like the A. He doesn't want to EARN respect and ADMIRATION, he wants it GIVEN to him b/c he acts like an idiot in front of like minded people. I don't think that job has anything to do with MONEY.

Just an opinion from dealing with the female version of your H.

OWL- I need help with a Plan B letter. I am a HORRIBLE writer.

BC_ YOU ARE RIGHT ON ABOUT THE BAR. I have told him respect is earned more times than I can say. I also tell him that the people at the bar don't respect you. They just don't want to piss you off because you will take their beer away.


OK. I think I need to go to Plan B. He was doing so well. He just won't do some of the majaor things I need him to. He won't even fill out a change of address form. He wouldn't even talk to his bar boss about not allowing her to come when he working. He isn't doing ANYTHING to prove to me that is really is done with her. And I hate him for it.

I filed with CS a couple weeks ago. I file abandonment. They evidently can collect CS from him even if you are still married. And since I don't know where he lives...they will find him.

I also called CS on my XH. They told me they aren't looking to have anything for me until the end of summer.

I am so down. I am 29. 2 XH's, 4 kids. I had a beautiful house. I have a Jeep that I love that I can't really pay for. WH keeps trying to blame XH for the financial setbacks. I keep reminding WH that it is HIS fault. NOT XH. Who is totally on my side BTW.

BC Thanks for the hug. Can I cry too? I hd make up on before I left the house.

Go ahead, I'm in a work shirt today.

Don't worry. I have cried so much this morning the make up has all been rubbed off. I won't get any on you.

You may just get a little snot on your shoulder....

{{{{{{{{{{{{{HM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I'm so sorry you are going thru this hun! Money stress, especially when you have no one to turn to for help, can be awful!

The respect he thinks he's getting from those people at the bar is like smoke... one little gust of wind and it's gone. They are not his TRUE friends, or family even. If only he'd see that!!!

I wish I could tell you what you need to do. I'll leave that to the pro's here. I'll be praying for you hun.

LOL. I have a 3 year old. I live with snot on my shoulder.

FAM I don't know why he can't see that. That bar is nothing but trouble.

BC- There are many days when I come to work with unidentifiable goo on me.

And I was just informed we are going back to 40 hours next week. 8-5 no exceptions

Plan B time along with sorting out and firming up the child support, spousal maintenance, etc. with an attorney, imo.

You are right OWL he likes that bar because he can act like a 18 year old idiot like the patrons and get away with it. He can basically be irresponsible (i.e. - financially, personally - affair, socially, etc.). He sounds as if he wants to live like a drunken teenager with mom and dad footing the bill and no one to report to or answer to.

Show him some reality w/ plan B, protect your heart and lovebank (whatever is left for this "man") and your children's and your financial future, imo.

I agree one thousand percent.

He called me to say he wants to come over tonight to talk about finances. He said he thought hard today after hearing me break down.

I said there is no point in discussing finances. I am doing what I have to do in order to survive with or without you and that means selling the house.

He says we will talk about me coming home later.

I said YOU ALREADY SAID YOU WEREN'T COMING HOME YET AND I DON'T WANT YOU HOME UNTIL YOU DO CERTAIN THINGS.

We will talk later.

Fine bye.


I just want to cry. I ate chocolate and didn't help. I need to make a wine stop on the way home.

My love bank is almost nilch. He was doing a REALLY good job at filling it. My lovey feelings were coming back and then he went and pissed all over them. Pep I think he needs to borrow one of your depends.

It's not that unusual HM for the WS to give the BS the impression that they want to work on the M and make ammends by doing, saying certain things that may put a few coins in the ole' love bank but most times this is an attempt to cake eat. To keep the BS hanging in case plan B (no pun intended) doesn't go as planned. Some of it is real in that he is afraid to lose you and the kids but some of it is simply a game aimed at still having his cake and eating it too.

I think plan B may just show him what NOT having you (not even as a friend) my look like, what seeing the children every other weekend might look like, what paying child support and/or spousal maintenance might look like if he continues to follow the path he is on. Remember plan A only works in about 15% of the cases, that leaves 85% needed to go to plan B or other plans.

HM,

You are right in finally setting some specific boundaries. It is a good thing for both of you

For you to set them and take a bit of the control back that you feel you have lost. For him to know what is expected for him to come home so he can finally face some reality VS the cake eating he has been doing

Further, you get back some of your self respect and will earn respect from your WH (though he will not admit that just yet)

Make sure you have ALL the requirements you want met for his return well thought out and written down.

Have you worked on a PBL yet?

Hang in there! I think Walmart has a special on the BIG bottles of chardonnay this week!:)

I totally agree with HAP on this...

Plan A showed him what he stands to lose...

Plan B shows him that he CAN lose it, and shows him what it feels like when he DOES lose it...

Take a look at some of the plan B letters others have posted, Holymoly. Go look at the "killer Bee's" thread...post there for advice as well.

Hang in there, stick to your boundaries no matter what he SAYS...at the end of the day, what you need is to SEE what he DOES.