Thx Eph525, My baggage consists of 4 other marriages, where I settled for less, one alcoholic, one abuser (me and the kids) one who needed to find himself and wasn't sure if he really loved me and one who once around single guys thought he too was single. I also have a slightly promiscuous episode between husband one and husband two which was 25 years ago. I had to tell my H about it though because I was afraid it would be brought up as he ended up working around some of those people and gossip never dies.So I told him before he heard it else where. This was before we were married, I thought I was going to lose him then, but then he understood I was not that person anymore. But once people started telling their lies about me. His ExGF (to get him back) told him I was sleeping with his brother. The OW told him I was cheating(trying to get him all to herself) The doubt in his mind was there. I have tried everything I can to erase that doubt.

I make mistakes. I own up to them. I recognize them and change my behavior. And I still lose !

Thanks for the website was looking for that info.

Well, what is your definition of lose?

You make mistakes - we all do, you recognize that, this is good.
You own them - this is good. Lot's of people don't.
You recognize them and change - again, this is good. Lots of people don't do this either.

Now, if in the end you are a better person, how do you lose? Keep in mind that around here, recovery does not always mean recovery of the marriage. Recovery also means you recover yourself.

By lose I mean I still wind up hurt and alone with no one to share my life with. Please excuse me, I just feel very defeated right now. I have poured my heart and soul into this marriage for 15 years I built a family with his daughter and parents and our pets. I don't only lose a man if this doesn't work, I lose everyone and everything important to me.

Believe me I understand the pain and defeat and the great sense of loss.

I can only offer you my prayers for now.

Thx...

MM,

The first steps are always to read, read, read, read, read. Read the articles here, and the basic concepts. Learn about EN's and the mechanics of affairs.

Then, find out if it's possible that your H is having another A. With him being withdrawn and distant ... and the old "needing space" line that's a golden one with wayward spouses ... I think it's at least a question that you need to ask.

I'd also second (third?) the suggestion of individual counseling for you. You said: "I am still crazy about him." {despite him withdrawing and not being loving or meeting your needs or trying to recover ever since the first A 10 years ago} "I have tried everything to keep him, he and his daughter are my life. I want very much to stay married to him. When I found him I felt like I found the piece of me that was missing." That sounds like fear and desparation. Like you'd be willing to accept whatever crumbs he dribbles out to you. Is that really what you want?

Do a search for the post about BS's fear. I'll try to find the link and post it for you.

If you do decide that you want this M, then you need to move home. You can't work on an M if you aren't there. And if he's the one who wants a break or a separation, then he can be the one who leaves. The inconvenience of having to find someplace else to be belongs with the one who wants to be apart from their home and family. Not the one trying to keep the home and family together.

(And I know how hare it is to make that stand -- I moved out of our house TWICE, because I didn't want to disrupt my step-kids lives. But it's not YOU disrupting her life, it's your H's choice to do so.)

If you do move back home, then be prepared to do a stellar Plan A. That in itself is hard, hard work! Read up and know what you're doing.

"I am just very frustrated that I am still in limbo. I do not know where my future is going. I don't want another man, I want the man that completed "me"."

God doesn't make incomplete people. Your H can't complete you, and neither can any other person, becasue you are already a whole, complete individual. And it is YOUR job to decide where your future is going. That's the only part that is in YOUR control. You can't make your H come with you -- that's his decision, his control. Once you let go of his stuff, it makes things so much easier for you.

"I have suggested counseling several times throughout our hard times but with his job (police officer, small town & no time) it can't happen."

It might be too early to suggest this, I think you need some IC first, to break some of that enmeshment, and I also think you ned to find out if there's another A going on, but counseling with the Harley's is a good option if schedule and small town issues are the problem.

"Why can't I get him to believe in us and his reason for marrying me? .... And believe in me and understand what it means when I say I love you, compared to all the other women in his past that said it and cheated or lied?"

Because it is not up to you. You don't get to decide what he believes in. You only get to decide wht YOU believe in. Quit expecting yourself to be so powerful that you can make up someone else's mind. You've can only make up your own. Set your own boundaries, make your own choices, and leave his up to him.

-AmI.



p.s. ... Regarding MEDC -- he doesn't need an apologist, he can stand very well on his own, but I will say that you should try not to get so offended that you miss his main points. MEDC is very passionate about marriage and parenthood, and he doesn't pull any punches. While that can come across as harsh, he's worth at least listening to. And especially in your case, he can offer some perspective relating to your H's career and father's custody rights.

Okay... good morning...
I have a few questions so that I can better direct my advice to you... and I will try and soften my appraoch somewhat if I feel it will help...



How old are you?
How old is your H?
Has he filed for custody of his child?
What was the length of each of your marriages?
Why do you feel you are so afraid of being alone?

MEDC

bump.

AmI...I know what you are saying is true. I just know the future I had planned for myself is not the one I will end up with. I don't want all of you to think he is a monster either. He is not. His baggage consists of a first wife that cheated on him with his best friend, how they are both still alive is a mystery to me. He found them in bed together. That wife after she left, took his 2 children and kept them from him for 16 years. They finally got in touch with us about 3 years ago, but only because the X's current husband was finally arrested for sexually molesting the daughter. The son ran away from the situation with the X when he was 16, from what I understand the X's monster tried something with him too. But he got out on his own and has a beautiful daughter and one on the way with the wonderful woman he married. He also has his XGF who mothered the stepDaughter that lives with us and a few relationships in between who all also cheated on him. There lies his problem with trust. And his ease of putting up the wall around his fears instead of dealing with them and being able to believe anything else could happen to him. Yes, I know he has issues than TV guide. I have seen the wonderful loving caring side of him, I know it is still there and I care about him enough to want to help him overcome his issues and change his life. I just can't get through.

As far as Plan A goes, how do you get NC with the OW when there is a child you want to have responsibility for? Even if we did get custody, he would still have to have contact with her.

And MEDC...I am 50 and he is 41. I have suggested custody but he has declined the offer to try. I don't think he is ready to deal with the daily reminder of his stupidity, right there in his face.

My first marriage was 6 years...that was the alcoholic. I do have one wonderful adult son (27) who just recently got married with his first child on the way & lives in GA. The second was a total mistake..he was the abusive one. Things were pretty good until I would be five minutes late from a meeting and he thought I was seeing someone else, not meeting ran over or traffic kept me or I stopped at the convenience store for gas or a soda...I got out of that one after he forced me to have sex while I had walking pneumonia and could even breathe and lay down at the same time...about 2 years. The next one was a Marine, who everything was good with until after we moved to New Orleans and a couple he had known before moved there too. He was very friendly with the wife and I suspect her daughter was his child from the previous friendship?? with that family. That lasted about 2 years. When he made his little announcement that he didn't know if he ever loved me. As a side note, she left her husband about a month after I left him. H#4 was also younger than I was but only by about 6 years. He was fine as long as we lived in Ohio, helping with our daughter, the house cleaning and doing things together. Then when we moved to SC, he became totally irresponsible, leaving our daughter at the sitters when I was at work and he was off. Leaving my son then about 10yo home alone to finish fixing dinner on the grill and being gone until after dark. Not even leaving food and water for the puppy before he went to work. Running around with his single buddies to the tune of an average 200 miles a day, on his days off. That one also lasted about 2.5 years.He has my daughter almost 18 now back in OH with him. Let his new wife adopt because I could not get custody. His mom and the family court judge are lunch buddies. Kept up visitation for a while but he kept telling her what she was missing when she was visiting me. I did it so she would have to hear that and bad things about me. I trusted his parents to keep her safe, she was their first grandchild and they were very doting and protective. I knew she would be okay and not have to go through the emotional upset and ping pong match he was creating with me in the picture. I just felt it would give her a more normal life. I will find her one day and try to explain why I did it. ANd hope she is able to understand and forgive me.

And as far as being alone, I don't like it. I like having someone to share things with, thoughts, happiness, even sorrows are all better when shared. I enjoy feeling loved and have someone to care about me. Whether that is romantic or not everyone should have someone. My son has his own family and I know I would get help from him if I need it and I know he loves me. But I want him to build his life and his family without having to worry about me being alone if they don't include me. My siblings are all older than I am and we are not very close. The closest one is my next oldest sister and she is almost 60 and lives in OH. We keep in touch but she has her own life too. I am currently almost solely responsible for caring for my 83 year old mother, which is where I am living right now, she is still of a good mind (thank God)but has emphysema and is finding it more and more difficult to do Activities of daily living on her own. I am a Paramedic and cannot bring myself to put her in a nursing home. I go to those places on a daily basis and see people dumped ther by their families that seldom even visit and I also see the way that most of the so-called nurses treat the patients...I cannot subject my mother to that. (does that make me a little bit honorable?)

I guess I am having a little problem with the math here....

You stated...


So, you were married for 6 years and the promiscuity(25 years ago) happened in between 1 & #2..... so you were originally married at 19 and divorced at around 25....add to this the additional 6.5 years of marriage for numbers 2-4 and the 15 years you have been with your H and I see an exceptionally small amount of time that you were not married in all of this time.
My question is, how long did you know these people before you decided to marry them??? It had to be a very short amount of time. Also, did you have any affairs in your marriages and eventually wind up with your affair partner?

MM... there is something going on with you deep inside that is apparent to me. You are screaming out for help with the way you are acting out... the question is why... were you abused or abandoned as a child... was there a father figure in your life?

My next question is... how do you feel being currently married to a man that refuses to live up to his obligations to take care of his child (beyond finances)? That would be a deal breaker for me MM. How he treats that child is a window into his soul.

I ask you the questions about abuse and neglect because I am a survivor of that and I work with groups of survivors trying to deal with their demons.

MEDC

The last comments by MEDC need an answer MM. It sounds as if you have had a very troubled past and made decisions that have placed your future happiness and that of your children at risk. WHY? Why do you find yourself attracted to the people you end up with?

Let us know.

Okay let me help... I had the length wrong for the first one actually about 5 years...Married at 18 separated by 23 within 1 year of son being born was single for a good while between H1 and H2. No cheating until after separation from H1. Nothing for H2. Nothing until separated with H3. Married H4 who I met and conceived daughter before marriage. Still with H4 when met current H but marriage to H4 was basically already over...

No abuse, abandonment or neglect from parents...Dad not around alot in my early years secondary to job. Parents as far as I know never cheated on each other.

H does see and try to spend time with AC but OW has to accompany AC to visit even though he is 8yo. She does not want me around him. Child not well disciplined visits only last a couple of hours at most. Know nothing sexual or romantic with OW anymore...she lied to H about being able to conceive, I have heard him talk to her on the phone. Visit usually ends up with him having migraine.

Don't know what my problem is...I was always "A-B" student. Somewhat plain and flat-chested as a teen so teased alot in school. Even in school, I had a reputation as being easy before I ever had sex. I was still a virgin and never did more than kiss. Just seem to get along better with guys than girls. Had a very few best friends females while growing up. Due to Dad's job moved around alot. Went to alot of different schools throughout grade school. That's about it.

What was your relationship with your mother like?

Do you long to be admired by men, for them to find you attractive. It sounds as if your self esteem is shot. I say this because what is the longest between marriages you have spent alone?

Thanks for opening up.

I thought my relationship with my mother was and still is fine. I am taking care of her now she is 83. We even worked together when I was younger, something my sisters said they could never do. I am the one that has been closest to her. My siblings have all been away from home since they graduated high school. I can't lie to her if I try. She always seems to know when something is wrong even if we are not together, I would be having a crisis and the phone would ring and she would be on the other end.

I can't help but feel we've lost sight of the goal here, folks. MMarc has a husband she suspects of committing adultery, or she wouldn’t be here, and she would like some help resolving that problem. Can’t we focus on that and let the past 25 years slide for a while? It’s clear those years are fallow ground for a lot of individual and couples counseling, but there’s an immediate, ongoing problem that needs addressing first, don’t you think?

MMarc, please provide more details on the infidelity you feel your WH is engaged in now, details on why you moved out of your home (or, better stated, how you were maneuvered out), the number of children in the home, whether you work, whether he’s on meds for his ADD, etc., etc. Tell us what your WH is saying to you, how he’s interacting with the kids, whether he’s spending an inordinate amount of time on the phone talking to (someone), whether there is any unaccounted for time in his daily/weekly schedule...anything you can think of that might bear on the problem.

In short, give us as many details as you can, but concentrate on what is happening in your marriage right now. You have complete anonymity out here. Use it, please.

Yeah...my self esteem is pretty shot. I know this. Marriages 1 thru 4 I didn't see anything worth trying to save even though I did try. Marriage 5 is different. I have alot to try to save, a lot invested in emotion, time, finances etc...but no matter what I do it doesn't seem to work. It has a tendancy to make one feel inferior.

My looks are okay, not supermodel material but what real person is... I do have scoliosis and some daily pain from that but not letting it limit my activities yet. I do think of myself as above average in intelligence. I guess that is why my seemingly poor choices disappoint me.

Longhorn...I do not think he is currently having an affair.. He has had one in the past and through what may be delusional jealousy he thinks I am or have cheated on him...Neither has happened. We have one daughter in the home almost 16 (his) My relationship with her is good though. He does take meds for his ADD religously, and supplements to help too. If you can go back to my first post. He has reached "overload" and needed to get rid of some of the stress. He was going to try to find a place to go but I had somewhere to go (across the yard to my mom's) and didn't want to devastate his daughter by making her whole life turn upside down again. Her mother has been married five times in the past 12 years. Her longest relationship is her current one about 3 years...Child has been through enough turmoil and is on the edge herself. I stay very active with her and let her vent to me about her mom etc. I do work, I am a Paramedic now back on my regular schedule of 24 hours on and 48 hours off which was disrupted for about 5-6 months making a big change in our routine at home. Routine is important to ADD/ADHD. Teenage daughter like I said, we get along well for "steps" but she is still a teenager.

Some unaccounted time in his schedule but is working with undercover stuff...small town not large budget all OT doesn't get charged. I understand this and know it to be true. Doesn't spend alot of time on home phone or computer. Does have access to email at work buit have no way of checking. Just doesn't seem the same as before. Genuinely seems like he is taking a break.

As far as our interaction...we talk about daily life, his work, errands, I do bills, he gives me his check and I give him cash for his daily needs like lunch & haircuts. Tells me goodnight every night. Let's me know he is up and getting ready for work in AM. Just doesn't want to talk about relationship much. Have had sex a couple of times since I moved up here and he initiated. Gives me a hug when I am there. I kiss him bye and he doesn't whince or look disgusted, usually just cheek or forehead kiss. I tell him I love him. Nothing seems to have changed except for the fact that I am not eating or sleeping there. We can talk without arguing. We can make each laugh. Got me??

If I am reading this correctly... you started a relationship with your current H while you were married to and living with H #4. If that is correct, do you think one of the reasons your H has a fear of infidelity on your part is that you cheated on your exH to be with him???

Okay, MMarc. I did read your entire post, but it seemed you might be trying to say something without actually writing it. If you're absolutely certain there's no infidelity -- a demand from a spouse for "space" is usually a red flag in that area -- then there's not much to be addressed on that subject.

Frankly, MMarc, your situation is so complex and convoluted, I think your best hope is to find a well-experienced, pro-marriage counselor to sort through everything with you and your husband. He will resist, I’m sure, but it’s your last best chance so I think you need to convince him…somehow, someway. That your husband has ADD and is on meds complicates the dynamics enormously and I believe a professional may be your only answer.

Good luck, lady.

MEDC..yes you read correctly.. he was also with XGF 15 yo's mom at the time..we weren't looking for each other just found each other. Something much more undeniable than friendship surfaced, feelings like we had known each other all our life and deeper level feelings I cannot even dscribe. Long before sex ever entered the picture. It may be part of the reason he feels the way he does..but if he understood what our commitment means to me, then he would know not to worry. I have tried to tell him, show him, there just aren't words to express it.

Longhorn...thanks for your input, I haven't given up on marital counseling, but I am going to have a tough time convincing him. I did ask the other day, in a letter to him actually, that if I sought counseling and they needed to speak with him to help me, would he do it?? So I have at least opened that door. No direct response yet though.

Just keep me in your prayers and stay tuned for future developments.