BP* .Thanks, how is Rome.
I do understand the Love Bank theory.
I am concentrating on Family Commitment, domestic support, admiration, physical attractiveness and conversation and affection as far as I can. The conversation always seems a little forced, we don't really laugh or have much fun at the moment, no matter how hard I try. I am not sure how much of a LB deposit this is having.
Does the crashing normally last for long?

You said that you needed help with conversation. What did your WW talk to OM about? What does she talk to her girlfriends about? Get into her world, and talk to her about it. What books does she read? What shows does she watch? What does she browse on the internet for? Research what she thinks is important and carry on an intelligent conversation with her about it. Many women like celebrity gossip. That's why there are SO many magazines about it (US Weekly, InTouch, OK!, People, well you get the picture). As much as I could care less about Britney Spears, Paris Hilton, or Lindsay Lohan, I would get on the internet for the latest gossip about them and then when my wife got home, I would say, "Did you hear that Lindsay wrecked her car and then fled the scene?" or, "Did you see Britney flash her va-jay-jay?" and then we would talk and laugh about it. I researched her favorite authors, and picked her up the new book from the bookstore that just came out even though she didn't know it yet. It showed that I cared about what interested her. I made reservations for a murder mystery dinner theater and got tickets for her favorite play that was showing in town. If I knew she was working late, I would pick her up something to eat, pick up a movie, or get her some chocolate or ice cream. You've got to get the initiative to figure out what will help fill your wife's LB.

Thanks for that. I have tried most of that, it is just at the moment the conversation feels a little forced, it is not spontaneous, it is not normally fun and we don't laugh much at the moment. I seem to have to initiate most of the conversation, when she does I try hard to keep it going. I am trying hard to make it fun and interesting but don't seem to be getting much response

She was in the empty phase. It was an ACT of love - feelings followed SLOWLY.

But it was HER idea to reach out and do it. NOT mine. She lead.

I did ask my wife what EN's OM was meeting - where I was failing.

What Bob says is right Brae. NC and Plan A will guaranteed improve your situation.

BigK. Thanks for that.

I am a little confused and worried today.
Yesterday (F?)WW was very sad and cried, both in the morning and last night and I thought she was crashing, she was as low as I have seen her in weeks, she mentioned how she was worried about me and DD and aslo how she had brought this all on herself and us, but today she seems much better.

The thing that is worrying me is that 5+ weeks in to NC there is no connection between us at all, she is fine at work and with her friends but with me it is as though she has put a glass screen up. I know she has no feelings for me at the moment but I thought by now we might have started to reconnect as friends, conversation is forced and there is no banter or humour in our conversations, I always found it easy to make her laugh but no matter how hard I try nothing works

I am concentrating on Plan A and meeeting any EN's as best I can I just worry that unless we start to reconnect even at a friendship level nothing much is going to change.
Is this till normal and her dealing with what she has done?

It is normal. Totally normal. It's a rollercoaster for her too. Some days are up, some are down.

Thanks for the re-assurance. Is the lack of connection normal too?

The thing that is worrying me is that 5+ weeks in to NC there is no connection between us at all, she is fine at work and with her friends but with me it is as though she has put a glass screen up. I know she has no feelings for me at the moment but I thought by now we might have started to reconnect as friends, conversation is forced and there is no banter or humour in our conversations, I always found it easy to make her laugh but no matter how hard I try nothing works

Brae Dr Harley says that it takes ON AVERAGE 2 years to recover from infidelity. AVERAGE.

I can TASTE how desperate you are for some sugar from your W but you have to be patient Brae.

Just a few weeks ago she was having monkey sex with some bloke CONVINCED he was superman and you were a loser.

Now she is home, in NC and getting very regretful of her actions. That is GREAT progress !

She (and you) are doing pretty well about now. It will probably be a while before you get much investment from your W.

Do teh stuff I told you before - divert your taker - are you going out with friends etc ?

BP* Thanks for that, I am doing what you said and doing my own things but I cannot live like this for 2 years in a place where we can hardly speak to each other and there is a constant cloud

brae, its been 5 weeks. It is very likly to improve.

Your comment I cannot live like this for 2 years in a place where we can hardly speak to each other and there is a constant cloud

Sounds to me like a personal boundary condition. If so thats GREAT.

Present that boundary condition to your W is a diplomatic and non-threatening way.

Did you read my boundary moment in my toolkit ? I think you need to say something like :

"I want you and a marriage with you, but I don't need you in a cold marriage at the expense of my dignity. I'll work really hard on recovery if you will too but I won't force you to against your will. Not a threat just a fact for you to consider as you work out your plan"

BP*. Thanks for that, I beleive she is trying it is just as though she finds it really hard to speak to me at the moment and I don't see how we can start to move forward until this happens.
I know it is going to take a while but I thought by now we might at least have started to be able to laugh and have a little fun as friends

BP*, BigK. I just wanted to thank you guys for all your help and support over the last couple of months. I don't think I would have got to the point I am now without your help.
I know I probably sound like I am moaning a bit at the moment, it is just home is not a particularly happy place to be at the moment and I thought we would at least started to move forward even if it was not intimately.

THANKS AGAIN Guys!!!

You ARE moving forward mate!

Just not in the priorities you would choose.

I have developed a unique view of recovery based on my own experiences and studies of folks on here.

I think recovery has at least THREE seperate threads.

PRACTICAL - Day-to-day relationship and life support
PERSONAL - Individual recovery from overdependence and behaviours that contributed to the poor M that allowed an affair
TRAUMATIC - the recovery from the hurt, guilt and pain that D-day and withdrawal caused. Also learning to protect each other from hurt by selfishness.

I see that at least some of these three are required even if a divorce is chosen, but all three are required if a recovered M is possible IMO.

I think the first one non-MB aware folks will go for is day-to-day. Its thee natural place to start as we all have the skills, however latent to make each others lives better, which also make our own life better.

Chicken soup , intimacy, SF, openness. Etc.

Squid THREW herself into these tasks at around 6-12 weeks after D-day. She is transformed as a wife and mother since MANY years nowadays.

My own personal recovery has progressed faster than Squids - but then again FWS and BS timelines are different. Maybe I had to get strong first to help her now ? I dunno.
Traumatic recovery was not so fast. Frustratingly so for me. I felt I DESERVED a bit of dedication to healing my heart after my efforts in holding our whole lives together.

But, RIF ( a wise poster from th epast) helped me realize that the PRACTICAL recovery can provide a platform that allows FWS to be confident enough to risk hurting FBS again in order to help us heal from the TRAUMA without fear of being kicked to the curb.

This seems to be a very real risk of many or all FWS in early recovery.

So Brae, while only YOU know the facts of your situation, if your W is contributing to the PRACTICAL recovery then you ARE in recovery. Just not in YOUR desired order.

It is important - imagine having a healed heart but no effort to reintegrate your practical lives...no active caring. No good 'spousely' behaviours.

I did not settle for a slow recovery, I just learned from RIF, SKM, and others that as I got strong in my personal recovery, my FWS was just hitting a bad and shaky place where the A seems like it was a very stupid, dangerous and horrible thing to do indeed.

For ME, Squid has contributed so obviously and dedicatedly to the only part of recovery she was capable of then( practical) that I loved her for it and will help consolidate our lives on the pratcical level. This allowed us to work on the traumatic recovery together in season.

See ?

You need to measure your progress in several ways not just how lonely you are feeling.

BP* Thanks for that, I am realizing how slow this process can be, but it is the practical recovery that is causing the strain at the moment, I am feeling lonely but I can live without the intimacy for now if we can at least interact with each other as friends and I think this is important for DD to see also.
Some days are better than others but I would never say conversation is spontaneous at the moment, was this something you also experienced initially.

yes it was. conversation is hard when there's a dead elephant in the living room.


is conversation a need of your w's usually ?

Yes usually, it is also one of her top two EN's and she told me I wasn't always meeting it as much as she would have liked but when I did the conversation was normally good

Bump for BP* and BigK

Hi brae

I made a sport of conversation in withdrawal.

I'd try to find uncontroversial topics that Squid had an interest in. It had to be ones that I clearly might also be interested in, so soap plots and family politics were out.

So I asked questions about news stories, holiday destinations, I even bit my lip and asked her about Karate.

( I dispise the sport to this day: always have but its the great love of her life). She opened up and when she realised I was an intereste daudience she held forth on all things shotokan.

I loathed the topic but I was re-connecting with Squid in conversation. I was also learning how to LISTEN and make her feel HEARD.

That led to us being able to discuss other topics in the same way.

And don't be hurt or sulk if she blows you out. Remember its to demonstrate that you're INTERESTED in listening to her, not for you to feel loved up.

I believe that WS have a filter on their heart's direct focus, and it is the insistent goodness the BS delivers in their peripheral vision that wins them over.

Now type below how you've tried all this, hows she rejected you, how hopless it all is and how much further you expected to be by now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

{{{braeworth}}

You're doing fine. Honestly.