BP* I suppose it is possible she is still in contact, although I have no proof of this and she has sworn many times on DD's life that she isn't.
I have explained that I will not live like this for long and have told her she can leave any time she wants

WS lie. You can tell they're lying because their lips move.

I would make transparency from your WW a personal boundary of yours if I were you.

I think I have done that, could you explain transparency, I think it is just that she has to tell me everywhere she is going and what she is doing

Did you see my post to you Brae?

Transparency is where it is your WWs job to make sure you hav eno reason to suspect her, rather than your job to snoop around her sneakiness.

With Squid this meant her giving me every password to everything, giving mer her mobile phone statements, giving me her sneaky affair mobile phone, identifying chaperones whenever she was going out or talking to people and doing all that and much more with a smile on he face.

It was MURDER to Squid, but I would not have stayed married to her without that. It was exhausting "hoping" she was not in contact.

We are now transparent with each other but we "make available" our schedules rather than scrutinise them.

Ws fear that their life for ever will be one of no privacy / secrecy if they rejoin the marriage, but to me thats a consequence of their actions. They need to re-earn tustworthiness.

Squid eventually did that wil good grace.

BigK. Sorry I missed it. I will step up my snooping.
BP* I will try and enforce transparency more

I don't mean to pick, but you don't "enforce" personal boundaries, you "police" them. I.e you check behaviour against them to see if your minimum standards of respectful behaviour of you are being observed or not. They're YOUR boundaries : minimum standards that you require in order to stay in a relationship with your wife now.

Its not a demand. She can do whetever she wants to do but some of her choices will result in you not remaining in a relationship with her because of your boundaries.

OK, I understand but if she is or starts breaking these boundaries, or is breaking NC, so early in to Plan A, what do you think my approach should be

If I found out she was breaking NC, should I confront her straight away or should I keep it to myself

It would be easier to Plan A if she is still at home, if I confront her, bearing in mind, she has already broken NC 3 times I think we would probably split up

In my case I was prepared to divorce if Squid would not stay in verifiable no contact.

Are you ?

Plan A'ing without boundaries is like being a doormat in my opinion, and I haven;t seen it work since I've been here.

It would REALLY be worth a £90 call to Steve Harley I think to get expert advice in your sit.

Yes I am prepared to divorce her. I am not prepared to let her keep seeing OM, but if she has broken NC and therefore broken the boundaries I am not sure where to go.
At the moment I have no proof that NC has been broken, I am just trying to be ready in case I find it has.
I am happy to continue with Plan A but if she keeps breaking NC is there any point.
If I find out she has broken NC then do I confront her straight away.

If you ar certain you tell her that you know she is breaking NC and lying to you about and that you value you rdignity too much to tolerat ethat for very long. Tell her transparency is a boundary of yours and let her snap and bark like a trapped snake, 'cos they all do when busted for NC violations.

Just ignore her ranting. She'll regret it when she de-fogs.

…two cents from a Fomerly-Former WW...


Resisting transparency = trying to maintain secrecy NOT privacy. The privacy argument is a cop-out.

Transparency = earning trust…earning trust = get the love back! (“Honey, I want so much to love you freely with an open heart. I need to know I can trust you to do that! If you cant give that to me, then I will not stay. Do what you choose.” worked well!)

I agree with Bob that really only the "all-or-nothing approach" works. Either both of you do the things necessary to change the patterns and build a new, different and healthier marriage or you divorce. Anything in between will look exactly like the Affair-stage-marriage.

My husband helped me with his zero-tolerance approach. Obviously I did not have my own self discipline or respect for boundaries—or I wouldn’t have been a WW! So his VERY clear boundaries helped me walk that straight line!

In retrospect, there is no other way.

"Formerly former wayward wife"?

Ooh my! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> I didnt realize how that would read!!

I feel a strong need to clarify here:

Five years out from my A....and now three+ years down the road of recovery (or shall I say UP the road?)...even being FormerWW feels like a former phase, (that shows progress, no!!) Anyway, hence the term formerly former seemed more appropriate.

But formerly former is certainly not to be mistaken for : no longer a former...

Do you follow?

I do, and thanks for the clarification. I'll admit, my first thought WAS 'no longer a former'... I'm glad you cleared that up for me.

And I can understand what you're trying to communicate...that you don't feel like the A is relevant at all to where you're at now. You're no longer a FWW...now you feel like your a DW (darling wife) instead.

Precisely, for me in an individual sense anyway.

But it is still very relevant to my M. The paradigm shift is permanent. My M and BS have forever changed as a result of the whole experience--just as intimate trauma changes anyone.

I am changed too, dont get me wrong.


Guess that is part of what is unfair--I have "gained" insight into my own failures, personal faults, etc. and so have come out of the experience a better person in that sense. (Dont mistake that for saying I am better because of the A mind you. I have to be judicious in my words here: I am better only because I have over come the personal faults that guided me to deal with my problems through the escape of an A) Its the overcoming the A behavior, not the A.

The unfair part is that I dont think any BS could ever say they felt that they came out of the experience a "better person".

I think my BS feels he came out a he!! of a lot worse! (less trusting, more pessimistic about love and life and trust) and made absolutely no decisions that put him there really.

Sad, really.

Anyway, just a tangent and more than you wanted to know.

Just a quick update. 7 weeks in to NC
Last week I thought maybe NC had been broken due to (F?)WW getting angry with me a lot. I am fairly sure that NC is actually being maintained. I think the reason she was getting angry was that I was doing a lot of questioning and verifying(too much) and I think I drove her nuts.
So where are we now? I am now Plan A'ing like never before, I am continuing to snoop and verify but much more discreetly. As for (F?)WW, she is still not sure she wants to be here and still has no feelings for me.
I am not sure if we are moving forward or not but I will continue with my very best Plan A for a few weeks and see where we end up

A person with nothing to hide, hides nothing.

Snoop diligently.