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LG Thanks for the words of encouragement. I am feeling wooried today, any encouragement helps


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

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It's actually a positive sign that she is worried about feelings being gone. It means she wants to feel something. Keep meeting EN's that she will allow and those feelings will return.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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BigK. Thanks for that.
Things moved on yesterday, I was feeling quite low about (F?)WW's lack of feelings and she was telling me how worried she was that they would never return.
I told her about your theory that ACTIONS create feelings and how MrsK had SF when she felt nothing and this gradually helped, she wasn't really sure about this but agreed to try. So SF last night. It wasn't great she certainly wasn't my old W, but that was to be expected. She has agreed to give this a try for a few weeks.
I really hope this works as it feels like the last throw of the dice.
I am continuing with a really good Plan A and other than lack of feelings life is fairly normal again. We are getting on OK, have done some shopping and done lunch this weekend, had a good time, not really arguing anymore and if the feelings return we will be fine.
This is so hard as (F?)WW is trying hard as am I and it appears we both now want it to work, but you can't control your feelings


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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WOW.


Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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Brae - if she wants, I can put her in touch with MrsK

Last edited by bigkahuna; 07/09/07 03:56 AM.

Me: 56 (FBS) Wife: 55 (FWW)
D-Day August 2005
Married 11/1982 3 Sons 27,25,23
Empty Nesters.
Fully Recovered.
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BigK. Thanks, I know you have offered this before, if the time is right I will suggest it to her. I know she is embarassed talking about what has happened. But I will keep your kind offer in mind.


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Brae this is a good move.

Know that the first thing required for recovery is the cessation of hostilities. No or little feelings isn't perfect but it sbetter than open hostility.

Also I recall from Big K's situation, love followed resumed SF.

I suggest you follow his experience rather than mine. I'm not sure you could do without SF for as long as I did. Its not a very high EN of mine, but perhaps like Big K it IS in your top 3.

Its good news ! Keep on plan A'ing !


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BP* Thanks.
SF is in my top 3 but I could do without it for a while if I knew she loved me again. This was just another attemp to get her feelings back, I remembered that it had worked for BigK.
I explained to her that I couldn't live in a marriage where I felt so alone and with no love for much longer and she said she felt the same, this is when the conversation turned round to BigK.
I am still worried though as she clearly wasn't in to what we were doing last night although she did make an effort and as I said it feels like the last throw of the dice.
It is just so frustrating as in most other ways we are getting back to normal, although with me being a far better husband than I was pre-A. But if these feelings don't return then we are finished


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Like I said absence of war is the first stage of peace.

Your W has recently been in a passionate affair fantasy, and has convinced herself that she didn't love you in order to not feel bad about her behaviour.

Its always going to take some time before she gives herself permission to recognise your good attributes and therefore feel bad about her affair.


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BP* Thanks again, I am trying to continue to be patient, but I thought she might have started to feel something by now and it is starting to worry both of us. She says she wants to save the marriage and the family but can't stay if she continues to feel nothing for me and I have explained to her that I can't feel like a lodger in my own home.


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Brae remember to go by what she DOES not what she SAYS. Words are far more corruptable than actions.

She says she feels nothing for you yet shares her life with you, has SF with you. That says a different message to her words.

IMO you are obsessing about her feeling nothing for you. Panicking that this is CERTAINLY going to be true for EVER.

When its a phase almost every recovering M goes through.

Stop obsessing. Practice loving detachment. And plan A your goolies off for longer.


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BP*. Thanks for that. I think she is telling me the truth, she never hugs or kisses me unless I initiate, SF was certainly not the passionate SF pre-A, although I knew that would be the case. She really does seem to be trying and is genuinely worried.
I am doing pretty good with Plan A and will try and stop worrying(easier said than done)


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Quote
do or do not. there is no try

- Yoda <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Ingest and apply loving detachment. IT WORKS.

Quote
I was working out a situation with a friend the other day and it occurred to me FINALLY how to describe "loving detachment" in a practically applicable way.

In my own affair-battle, and in plan A , loving detachment was without doubt the technique that helped the most to get through the very bad times. It allowed me breathing space to be rational when faced with irrationality.

I have advised for panicking folks in the heat of this fight to "detach" but I always struggled to INSTRUCT them how to do it.

Well, a day late and a dollar short, but here goes - in case it helps anyone:

However vicious or entitled a persons actions may be towards us, and however dark a situation may appear, it is a stark realisation that it is OURSELVES who render events with the power to frighten or hurt outselves.

Some folks who tried to adopt loving detachment tried to IGNORE evil purpetrated in their lives and respond with a false rictus smile to the person who is hurting them. That is not what loving detachment is for me and I chide myself for not being able to explain sooner.

Loving detachment was a way I found to strip away the scariness I attributed to events and look only at the core elements of these events.

I'll start with a non infidelity example :

A banana skin skids to a halt at your feet, when you are rushing and feeling low, and you barely miss slipping on it. Things you might think while in an emotional state:

"I could have slipped on that ! GOD I might have broken my neck ! I Bet my spouse threw that there to kill me for my insurance ? What if there are more banana skins ? OH NO, I have to LIVE in a workd of banana skins for ever boo hoo hoo !" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

What loving detachment thinks :
"A banana skin. I need to step around that so I don't slip. Stay vigilant in case of further banana skins as I can only control my OWN placement of banana skins, not other people's."

See ?

It doesn't matter if a person tried to sabotage you with that banana skin,OR if it was dropped accidentally by a passing flying monkey, the core challenge, and correct response is identical once you strip away all the layers of portent you ascribe to an event.

When Squid would attend karate competitions that I suspcted OM may be at, against my direct request a wellsping of panic and fear surged within me. " She'll be kissing him ! Maybe they're not even at a karate event! Perhaps they've left to elope !"

Then I shouted "Stop! DetAch! " to myself.

Facts :

1. Squid went to referee a weekend competition against my request less than a month after d-day. The only thing I know for sure is she won't be home over Saturday night.
2. Even if she *IS* PA'ing with OM, it does not change our situation.I Expect her to be wayward at this time. I am not "more cuckolded" by this ,if so.
3. I know there IS a competition at the time / place she says and that she is sharing a room with a trustworthy mutual friend.
4. How can I affect this in future ? Well, exposing to OM GF may apply a compulsion to OM not to attend these events. I should expose.
5. The weekend without soaking up Squids poison gives me a respite ! I will take the kids to a childrens' farm !


Loving detachment is DELIBERATELY stripping away portent from events and facts to allow calm rationalisation as to whether you can affect a situation positively or not.

It is not ignoring, it is not soaking up, it is not tolerating. It is revealing and dealing with the FACTS as practially as possible.

Another real example :

Event : Squid is highly entitled and is bullying me in her affair pomp, in the second whole week after NC established. She is making no effort to be transparent nor to work on our marriage. Highly dismissive, vituperative. I am terrified, the kids are being hurt.

WHOAH Bob !!! LOVING DETACHMENT MODE PLEASE :

What would I do if I were not afraid ?
- I'd tell Squid that I would rather live without her than WITH her this mean and disrespectful
What am I afraid of ?
- That this is the best Squid can ever give me and that she would leave if I enforced a boundary requiring more
SO this is a dignity issue. Best case is that I get my baby AND my dignity. Whats the best compromise ?
- That I keep my dignity and lose my baby.

So, loving detachment, what are the FACTS to consider ?

1. She could leave ANY time she wanted with or without my protecting my dignity
2. If she left as a result of having to respect minimum boundaries, I am only worse off if I value that toxic corruption of a marriage more than my own dignity.
3. If she leaves I will be healthy,have the support of my employer and my kids and we will be fine, after a time of sadness. It is highly unlikely that we will be broken by this.
4. If she stays and respects my boundaries we may all just "win the lottery" !.

Decision - restate my boundary to Squid.

Lovng Detachment released me from the chains of fear. That night I asked Squid my famous question :" baby WHY are you here ? You said you would stay and work on our marriage - and I am struggling to see anything I would call "marriagebuilding" from you right now. I want you , very much, but I do not need you. Do not stay only because you think I will fall apart if you leave. I will not.
The door on this marriage is open - you can leave any time, as can I. Just know that I will not tolerate perceived disrespect for long before I protect myself from it."

Squid flipped a switch that night like so many WS do.

Even when I make a bad decision using the facts loving detachment presented me, I could simply apply LD to the NEW situation and make a new decision in light of my experience.

Does any of this make any sense ? I hope it helps.

ps IT WORKS !


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BP* I am practicing LD pretty well day to day in my Plan A, when (F?)WW says something that hurts I manage to ignore it, although she is doing this much less now.
As I said earlier, I feel we are doing pretty well, NC maintained, not really arguing much, getting on OK, (F?)WW starting to work on recovery, family life just about back to normal(with some major improvements from me).
I know compared to many people on here I am very lucky. It is just this lack of feelings is worrying both of us, my wife more than me in fact. I think she is feeling guilty.


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Those who have affairs go through a mounning period. It could last weeks to months.

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9.5 Weeks NC - Update.
Just thought I would give you an update.
We were talking last night, (F?)WW said she still feels like an empty shell, we have had SF a couple of times as I said in my previous post, although it is that time of the month now, but her feelings have not yet returned.
I said she seemed to have some kind of wall up, but if she kept to NC her feelings should come back. I asked her about the changes I had made and she said that she had noticed but that she felt angry and resentful and why had it not alway been like that. I said neither of us could change what we had done in the past and we just had to concentrate on now and the future.
I think we are moving forward but very slowly, I have noticed very small subtle changes in her behaviour towards me but nothing big so far.
If anyone has any ideas on how to help break down this wall or help her overcome her resentment let me know.
She did say that she is trying and is willing to give it several months to try and get our marriage back but both of us agreed we couldn't live like this for ever.


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Brae, your words came across as neediness to me, so I suspect they would to your WW too.

"please love me again, like Dr. Harley says should be happening by 9.5 weeks of NC,look how good I have been at plan A".

Its sickening to WS when BS are needy.

You MUST stow that instinct Brae.

Alos ar eyou moving on with your life ?

Going out with friends, having a good time, dressing well, looking good, smelling great ?

Move on in all but fidelity.


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I have started going out again and getting on with my life, dressing well etc etc.
I didn't think I was sounding needy we were just talking about things, I think it was her who brought it up. But I will make sure I am sure don't do that


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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Good man !

its a heroes gig, mate. You're doing great !


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BP* and other pros.
I think at times I maybe do come across as needy, it is hard to find a balance. I am not totally sure what I should be doing now. She has agreed to SF to try and help get her feelings back,("ACTIONS create FEELINGS") so I have been initiating hugging and kissing to show her some affection as I don't want her to think I am only after SF. But then I think maybe I should be playing it cool and not initiating any of this stuff.
She does appear to be getting over withdrawal and she is a lot warmer to me.
Any thoughts appreciated


Me - BH 42
FWW 40
DD 12
D-day 14th April 07
NC broken several times
False recovery until 14th July 07
NC finally established 14th July 07
OM reappears Aug 08. WW moves in with OM Nov 08. Now in Plan B

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=3228651&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1
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