Thought I would check in and give everyone an update.
As far as I can tell NC is being maintained, I can verify that she has not seen OM and has not used cell phone or e-mail to contact him. It is impossible to to know if she is using a payphone or something to contact him.
We are at 3.5 weeks NC now. She still has no feelings for me, although I know it is probably too early. She does not believe her feelings will return but will stay until end of October to see where we are. I mentioned that actions create feelings and maybe with a little more commitment from her things might improve and her feelings may return.
I mentioned to her that she did not seem as sad as last week(this worried me a little as I thought NC had been broken). She said she could just lay down on the bed and cry her eyes out but that would be unfair to me. I explained that while it would hurt me I am there for her and will do anything to get her through this to enable us to save our marriage.
What kind of timescale are we looking at before she should start to feel someting towards me again, I was figuring about 6-8 weeks from NC starting.

Braeworth,

In my experience it took about 4-5 months of NC & plan A before I noticed anything (& only then because she told me she felt things for me that she never had before - I'm not blessed with perception). My M was in a pretty sorry state before her A though & that probably affects things, it may well be different for you. Where did you get the 6-8 weeks from btw ??

b.p.m.

Hi Braeworth

I asked that question before. The consensus was that it was linked to the duration and intensity of the A. As bulletproof said, for him it was many months. Not what any BS wants to hear.

It's been 12 weeks for me now and I'm only just beginning to see the odd glimmer. I agree that it's impossible to be 100% convinced of NC short of having the invisible man stand beside her and follow her every move. I can only go by her mood and she has been way down which I take as an encouraging sign of withdrawal.

I was doing a crap Plan A until a few weeks ago too which I'm sure hasn't helped. We were always talking about the relationship and I was LBing all over the place in response to babble about entitlement.

I think I must be stupid because whilst I've read the books so many times, I kept losing the plot and forgetting what the goal of Plan A really is and what I should be doing. It might be a good idea for you to have a refresher <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Hang in there mate!

What kind of timescale are we looking at before she should start to feel something towards me again, I was figuring about 6-8 weeks from NC starting.

Brae I think you asked this same question 4 or 5 times so far.

Its not guaranteed that your WW WILL ever feel anything for you again in the way you want, so you better start moving on independent of any sugar from your W.

It also happens that such behaviour is well indicated to attract a FWS too.

BP*. Welcome back, hope you had a good holiday.
When I was at what I thought was 8/9 weeks of NC before, you told me WW should be feeling something by now. When NC was restarted, you said that if in a few weeks WW feels nothing, she is in contact.

My worry is that she seems to have the end of October as decision time, she says if she has started to feel anything by then she will stay and continue and work on M, but if she still feels empty she will have to move on, I am a little worried that this may not be long enough.

And I was right Brae.

NC, if held, forces a cold turkey affair-addiction cure on the WS. Dr H says that the worst symptoms of withdrawal should dissipate after about six weeks or so of real NC.

The return of feelings does require NC of course, but also requires a good plan A : to make deposits in the love bank.

Neediness , trying to educate the WS and impatience are all pretty bad withdrawals from the $LB IMO.

Also it helps a LOT of you move on in all ways but fidelity. Keep a smile on your face, dress to impress, smell nice, go out with friends. It helps the WS recognize the desirability of the BS AND it helps restore self-confidence and independence in the BS, required whatever the outcome of the recovery efforts.

If the WS realises that they are not needed, their insecurity will make them work to BECOME needed. I have seen this time and again.

BP*. Yes you were right, that was why I was asking when I should expect her to be feeling something.
I do understand your other points tough.
I think like Mindwarped when I have discovered NC has been broken, for a few weeks after that I have done too much lecturing and R talk.

Can't remember where but I've read several threads where such deadlines imposed by the wayward prove to be spurious and no action gets taken when they come around. The end of October is over 10 weeks from now. That's a lot of time for you to do proper Plan A which can only give you a chance even if the deadline turns out to be real.

I suggest forgetting about the deadline and just doing the best Plan A possible. I came across this thread from ark that you might find useful.

Even if the deadline is real, you can't do anything to change it except foster the best possible conditions for your wife's feelings to come back.

Get on that refresher course now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

MindWarped.Thanks for that.
The thread from Ark looks really useful. It looks like you are a couple of months ahead of me in your recovery. Good luck

You're welcome brae. I think the whole point of these boards is for us to learn from each other. Ironically, it seems easier to make suggestions to someone else going through a similar experience than to apply the right stuff to one's own situation.

It's easy to read the words but not grasp their true meaning. Being wrapped up in the intense emotions caused by these situations seems to turn perfectly intelligent people into complete plonkers.

All the books, the materials on this site and advice in posts to my thread told me to stop love busting. Did I read it? Yes. Did I comprehend it? I thought so. Did I properly understand it so I could apply it to my situation? No, not for ages. I re-read material now that I must have read ten times already and can't believe how I continued to do the complete opposite of the advice on the printed page. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I found that the sadness and anxiety dominated me. It turned me into a gibbering idiot and stopped me thinking clearly. I eventually started to have days where I didn't feel like that. All of a sudden the penny dropped and I began to grasp what everyone was talking about. Of course the negative emotions come back when something goes wrong. But as BigK's signature says: "You may have to fight a battle more than once to win it. ~ Margaret Thatcher".

I hope you are right about me being further along but we won't know until we can look back on it with 20:20 hindsight <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Hopefully from the perspective of a recovered relationship like BP's.

Now, since I'm feeling so chipper, where's my copy of SAA? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

MindWarped. Yes it is hard sometimes, even though you know what you should be doing. My issue at the moment is believing NC is in place, having had one false recovery already. I find it impossible to believe her and find myself asking her several times a day if she is lying to me again, or if she has had any contact at all. I know this is massive LB's and I need to stop. I drew a line in the sand last night and decided there is no real point asking her,as she lied before. I will just have to look at her behaviour and actions and hopefully I will be able to tell from that

STOP ASKING HER!!!

That's a steady drain on her love bank! Not to mention...she'd lie to you about it anyway.

Asking her is pointless...all you can do is verify the best you can through snooping. You now know how she broke NC last time...have the two of you found a way to prevent it from happening again?

I think it perfectly natural that you don't trust her considering the evidence. As people keep telling me, she's an alien right now and you shouldn't believe a word that comes from her mouth.

I think you are right and shouldn't be asking those questions. The onus has to be on her to demonstrate NC but she is unlikely to want to do that yet. It might be useful for you to think about what you would like her to do in order to demonstrate NC so that you are prepared for that discussion if it ever comes up.

You could snoop if you wanted but that won't be 100% effective. It also saps your energy and fuels those negative thoughts. I think you have drawn the right conclusion. Observing her behaviour will be more helpful to you and you will get more return by focussing that energy on your Plan A behaviour.

Brae, MindWarped,

I am in the same shoes!

D-Day 5/28/07 on a 1 month A at that point. I have had 3 false NCs already up until 2 days ago.

WW even contacted OM on our famaily vacation.

I have been doing (what I thought was) plan A for 2 months now.

After reading the link to Ark's plan A post, I find that I have been asking WW if contact is still going on when I should assume it is going on.

I still try to sit with WW each day to talk when I arrive home from work even if it is small talk about TV or something 'light'.

I, unfortunately, have also found myself issuing 'ultimatums' by saying:

"if NC is broken again, you will have to leave" (NOT GOOD).

I can say that my WW does recognize my good efforts (by her admission).

I guess I still need to be patient in plan A!

I stay in touch with your post Brae because my sitch is similar!

I wish you all the best -- you too MindWarped (thanks for Ark's plan A post; really eye-opening for me on how deficient I have been in plan A.

BN, MW.
Thanks guys. Looks like we are all in a similar position.
Bluenote - I see you haven't yet exposed.
I know it is not easy but it just has to be done. Prepare yourself for a few days of vile ****** but my WW is still living with me despite it. I think if I had exposed right at the start when A was only 2 weeks old, I would have been well on the way to recovery now. The A is now 3 to 4 months long and is harder to break.
I should have listened to MelodyLane, BobPure*, BigKahuna, Owl etc right at the start, these guys know their stuff.

Owl. I know you are right about asking her, easier said than done though. I intend to draw a line in the sand today and stop the questions from now on.

Brae,

I luckily caught the A after 1 month.

I did expose WW to family and friends in June. She DID NOT like this but I told her I would do anything to fight for my M.

The OM is quite secretive and he has only lived in town for a year now according to WW. I know by gleaning info my WW that OM is a school teacher and (get this) a licensed therapist/counselor.

Background checks brings up OM's previous residence on East Coast which supports statements he told WW.

I need to hire a PI to help me gather info on OM so I can expose to OMW. I cannot find a current home address in Cali for OM. This is the only piece of info preventing me from exposing A to OMW. PI's will not provide you this info either.

WW last known contact was last week. She has agreed to my new (more safeguarding) BCs. We will see how this goes.

And like yourself, I sometimes still ask when has she had her last contact with OM. I cannot trust her answers, so it eases my burden by simply snooping behind the scenes and it does not alert her to anything.

Time for another helping of plan A for me!

Take care -- I'll be keeping a watch on ya' wishing you all the best.

I tell you, I really appreciate the advice of the pros!

4 Week NC update.
As far as I can tell NC is being maintained, I have been snooping and cannot find any evidence of contact. WW has been very low and sad over the weekend which I suppose is a good sign. She has told me on a couple of occassions over the past week that she misses OM and thinks she may want to be with him. I asked her why she is still here and she said because it is the right thing to do and that she has to try to save M for DD. She has said that she will continue to have NC and will really try to get her feelings back and save our M, she also said that she will stay and work on M until she is absolutely sure we cannot save it.
I have not yet seen much effort from her to try and save M, I asked her what she was doing to get her feelings back or to rebuild our M and she said that she was still here, I said that it would take more than that.
Maybe, I just need to be patient and give her some time, is 4 weeks to early to expect any real commitment from her? She is very low at the moment.

Hello Brae

I agree. Low and sad means she's in withdrawal and likely there is NC. That's good news!

If I were you, I would steer clear of instigating relationship talk. I made the mistake of talking about it all the time in the beginning and Bonkers felt really under pressure because of it. I think it inhibited any progress and was a major screw up on my part.

Let her raise the topic and don't demand anything from her like filling in questionnaires and all that stuff. Hopefully she will eventually start to discuss what could be done to improve things. Then you will have your opportunity to thoughtfully request some alternative action. I almost never instigate discussion now and I've noticed that Bonkers has started to do so with increasing frequency.

I too was frustrated that Bonkers didn't seem to be trying but I was expecting too much.

NC is evidence of her trying. Her discussing her feelings with you is evidence of her trying. Attending MC is trying. Try to look at it like that.

Just put your saint hat on and listen to her when she talks. Show that you understand and try not to puke, get angry or do any other LBing. Reassure her that she will start to feel better as she maintains NC and why not praise her for maintaining it? Tell her that you understand how hard it must be?

4 weeks is probably too soon. Did you read that Plan A information again as I suggested?

MW. Thanks for that. I do tell her that I understand and accept that at the moment she is going to miss OM, but maybe I do put too much pressure on to see some action with regards to her helping the recovery. She has read SAA, this was her choice but she read it a couple of weeks ago, which was maybe too early, as she said she didn't think it applied to her or her sitch, I just smiled. But because of SAA she does understand that things should get better and her feelings should come back.