It is totally understandable that her felings oscillate. She used to have no feelings remember? Her not initiating isn't a problem either. Does she let you bring her to orgasm Brae?

BigK. No she doesn't seem capable of an orgasm at the moment. This was never a problem before. She did say that SF has gone from being a little uncomfortable to being OK but not yet the tingle and sparks of before.
Any suggestions from MrsK on how to get her feelings back would be helpful too.

I would say that when she starts having orgasms again it is a sign that she is regaining her feelings because it would be an indication of an emotional connection.

TIME is the key. NC and time. Should not be too much longer. These things are predictable.

Avoiding silly questions will help too.

BigK. Thanks, I would say you are right, I can't remember if she said the last time we had SF was OK or nice, everytime does seem a little better, the first couple of times were like making love to an empty shell. She does seem to be making more of an effort each time.
I think(hope I am not wrong) we do have NC now, just hope she gives us the time, I know my questions are not helping and am re-charging my batteries and getting myself in order this week while she is away with DD and my parents so that when she returns I can just get on with being the best husband she could have, no more R, A or M questions.

BigK. You said about her feelings oscillating, i am not sure she still has any feelings what oscillates is if she wants to be married to me or not

She doesn't want to admit her feelings even to herself. I think this oscillating is typical. It really will get better Brae - in fact it is already much better - you are just too close to it to see it.

Even this is positive.

As for SF, don't ask "how you're doing," just read a book, go in there with some confidence, and try something different that you've learned and see if it gets a positive response. At the very least she'll realize that you've tried to spice things up.

Bigk, Jim Thanks
BigK You mentioned a plan for her to get her feelings back. Do you or MrsK have any suggestions, to be fair I think she is trying all she can at the moment

OK well all I'm saying there is she keeps endlessly prattling on about her feelings - but it is true that feelings FOLLOW actions. So..... if you both do the LB questionairre and each determine your top needs, you both need to have a plan to meet those needs in the way your partner wants them met.

Now I know it doesn't seem romantic but it works.

So for instance, say your wife has a need for conversation (ok that's a given). You would agree together that you would spend a certain amount of time each day talking about subjects that interest her, about your plans for the future. You would use the friends of good conversation from HNHN and LB. It is almost a dead certainty that OM met her need for intimate conversation. This builds intimacy.

If you have a need for SF, you agree on a number of encounters and the way that need will be met. You make sure you ring her bells too because orgasm is important for women - it is particularly important in recovery because of the chemicals released.

See Brae - that's a plan. It's not mindlessly waiting for nebulous feelings to magically reappear.

Now I can also almost guarantee that if your wife maintains NC that she will start to look to reattach to you emotionally which can't and won't happen if there is contact. You still need to be making LB deposits and not making any withdrawals but at least, after withdrawal, she will be willing to allow you to meet some of her needs. This is why I asked if she orgasms BTW because it would be an indicator.

I also think apart from the talk I recommend abovt that you should for the time being knock off ALL relationship talk because it is a huge Love Buster for her. Stop whining to her about her feelings and asking her about them. Don't try and educate her.

WORK THE PROGRAM and it WILL work for you. The end result is inevitable if you follow the program.

This week, on Tuesday, is our 2yr anniversary of d-day. Our marriage is unrecognisable from 2 years ago. We are living proof that recovery is possible.

Oh and BTW - make sure you read the link JL posted to you.

BigK. Thanks for all the above, all very useful. Probably stuff I already knew but can't always see the wood for the trees.
As I said earlier WW is way with DD and my parents until Saturday. This has really helped me see things clearly, when I call her and we talk about their holiday and fun things the conversation is good but when I have brought it round to R talk things change for the worse. I now know to leave alone all R and M talk for a while on her return.
I have ordered Love Busters which I am hoping will arrive in time for me to read it before she returns because I think I have been doing some Love Busting which has made my Plan A not as affective

Brae - dunno if I ever told you to do this before but can I recommend you order the DVD - the Basic concepts one and the Infidelity one. Your wife just may agree to watch them - you could just leave them lying round for her to see. They are $9.95 each plus freight but they are VERY GOOD. Just a suggestion.

BigK. OK thanks

Haven't posted for a while so thought I would just give an update.
I think A is finally over. NC has now been maintained for just over 8 weeks, I have done lots of verifying in this time, checking that she is where she says she is, checking phone records etc. cannot find anything suspicious at all. The only thing she could possibly be doing is using a payphone or something.But I am sure she has not seen OM in this time.
There are signs of my W appearing and WW seems to be disappearing quite rapidly, she does now seem to have come through withdrawal pretty much, although she does still some days feel a little low.
I was doing some Love Busting, W and DD both have horses and W horse is sick at the moment which means she has to spend a lot of time with it. I was getting a little angry that we weren't managing to get much UA time and I think my LB's over this was destroying a lot of my Plan A work, because of this my W is still saying that she does not really feel anything for me yet. I have stopped this over the last few days and explained that I understood that she could not neglect the sick horse
On the positive side I do feel now that if our M survives is now about me and W and not OM. We are having SF, and each time it gets a little better and is VERY SLOWLY!! getting more like normal.
W started reading Fall in Love Stay in Love at the weekend, and has agreed to make some time to discuss it the weekend, I have stopped LB's and M and R talk and things are generally improving. DD had left for school this morning and I was not starting work until later this morning so was just laid on the bed with a coffee. W was leaving for work, but made a point of coming back to kiss me before she left.

I feel much more positive about things and happier than I have for months, as I said I now feel that this is now about us, and if I can stop LB's and R and M talk for a while things will really start to change round, I can already see very small signs of this.
Our wedding anniversary is on Oct 8th and as I said my W loves horses so we are going to Paris for the Prix de l'arc d'triomphe horse race. Any ideas for a nice restaurant for an anniverary meal appreciated, I thought about one of the dinner cruises on the Seine.

Hi Brae,

Glad to hear things seem to be improving both in terms of your behaviour and your wife's. Good luck to you!

MW. Thanks, don't get me wrong this is far from a bed of roses and we still have a long way to go but things are improving and if W and I can't make our M work, without "outside influences" then I can live with that.

How are things going with you?

Brae,

She's back after about a week of Plan B. Swears the A is over and seems contrite but she is really p***** off at me for the Plan B and the fact that I've been really open with our Son. Thinks I've set him against her. She's talked to me about how she has resisited urges to contact the OM again so I'm hoping that's a good sign. We resume MC later this week.

Some days are good, others bad. Sometimes I feel pleased she's back because it was what I wanted. Other times I just feel abused and wonder why I'm bothering. I've just got to endure the withdrawal I guess. Trouble is I was so deceived after the last promise of NC, I don't know what to believe any more.

I'm managing to avoid the LBs. Didn't even get angry when I busted her before Plan B - quite an achievement for me.

Yep, shutting up, plan A'ing your bollocks off, locking up your taker and living in the moment are all good things for you to do, well indicated for success.

With work I did a dinner cruise down the Seine 5 or so years ago on the La marina. It was very nice, but horribly expensive from Port Henri IV quay.

I personally love Brasserie Le Balzar in Le Quartier latin for its "frenchness" and excellent simple food,but it may not be fancy enough for an anniversary. Its round the corner from my mate Darren's flat but it may not be so convenient for you.

Our own 18th anniversary was eight weeks after d-day. We went for a meal and I decided to only bring up amusing and lovely events from our past. zero R talk. It worked out as well as it could be whilst embroiled in the pain.

I hoe you have a great time Braeworth !

MW. I know how you feel, after a false recovery it is very hard to know what to believe, I have just kept verifying as much as I can and this has helped me to believe that NC is finally holding. The withdrawal is horrible but it does get better.

BP* Good to see you back, hope you had a good summer, as best you can with our wonderful weather. Thanks for your hints for Paris too.