BigK. I'm a big boy, I can take it.
I know this sounds like groundhog day but I am really, really low right now. A couple of weeks ago I was full of hope and was quite happy, that all seems to have gone. We just don't seem to be able to move forward, I feel I am doing all I can, no R&M talk( I kow you don't believe me but it's true), no LB's and meeting her EN's as best I can but things seem to have come to a halt, a couple of weeks ago I could see baby steps. I really feel right now as thought this isn't going to work and I am growing tired from the fight.

Bob is so absolutely right, braeworth. Neediness and clinginess are abhorrent, so when you do that, any lb balance you have is quickly eroded. Everything is going out the bottom of the bank and you have to start over again. If you are overly affectionate, then she feels an obgligation to respond, which is very hard for a detached person. And when she can't respond, she feels guilt, which leads to resentment. So, I agree very much that you should back off. Don't ask her anymore how she feels, but let her come to you.

Exactly what has changed form a few weeks ago apart from your perception (which we know we can't trust already)

Your sitiuation is dramatically improved from 6 weeks ago.

BP*. Thanks, initially I was very clingy and needy, I think I have moved away from that and have become quite good at Loving Detachment, I just really started feeling low over the last couple of days. A couple of weeks ago I was happy and full of hope but it is as though we have not moved forward at all since then.
Don't apologise for the kicking I'm sure I need it. I know we have made good progress but that all seems to have stopped.

I completely agree with Bob as well FWIW. He has a much better way with words than I do.

You are fooling yourself Braeworth. Your every post HERE drips with neediness, I can only imagine how that comes across at home.

You are clingy NOW and if you were loving detached you wouldn't be obsessing about your wife's feelings for you. The evidence indicates your taker is ruling your actions and that has to stop right now. If you don't recognize your neediness and stow it you will get nowhere.

If you do what you always did, you'll get what you always got.

BP*, BigK and ML.
Thanks to all of you.
My situation has dramatically changed from 6-8 weeks ago, but is hasn't changed from 3 weeks ago. We did make dramatic steps but that seems to have slowed to a real crawl. If I am coming across as needy to you all then I obviously will be to W.
I know I have much to be grateful for compared to many others on here, amd most of that is down to the advice I have received from you guys, but I am feeling really low and tired at the moment. My WW had set a deadline of Oct 31st to see if her feelings had started to return otherwise she was leaving, she has stopped talking about that now and has in so many ways re-commited, I just can't live in a loveless M forever.
P.S Don't ever apologize for being harsh on me, I can handle it.

Brae, this DOES take a toll. That is natural. It IS tiring. But you seem determined to screw this up.

Do you have a yahoo messenger ID Brae? if you do please email it to me and sign in.

Hallelujah !!!

Progress Braeworth m'lad ! Progress !

braeworth,

As you know there are similarities between our situations and I've been having similar feelings for the last few days. In fact I've stopped posting to my thread because the answers I seek for myself seem to crop up on yours just a little bit beforehand. You seem to take the 2x4s for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bob, BK and ML are all correct. As jmwc95 keeps telling me, this is a marathon not a middle distance race and you have a long way to go. All their comments are wise. However when you are in the middle of the emotion it is sometimes hard to remind yourself of them and apply the advice.

You wrote: "If I am coming across as needy to you all then I obviously will be to W."

Well that is the smartest thing you have written all day.

I think that people take issue with your posts because they indicate that those feelings of insecurity do spill over into the interactions you have with your W. For example:

"... I have asked W if there is anything I am doing or not doing ..."

If that's not R talk, I don't know what is. It is almost certainly perceived as needy by your W.

I think this board is an appropriate place to share those insecurities. It's better to do it here than with your W but, to reiterate what others have said, it's the last thing your W wants to see.

I suppose what I'm really trying to say is that I understand how you feel because I'm going through the same thing. However, when either of us feels like this, we have to:

- give ourselves a slap,
- remind ourselves what the end goal is,
- remind ourselves how long it is going to take to get there and exactly where we are in the process,
- go and do something that can take our mind off it and stop feeling sorry for ourselves.

So what are you going to do today to take your mind off it and cheer yourself up? I'm going to smash some golf balls into oblivion on the driving range.

MW - I'd be happy to kick your [censored] too if you start dribbling like this!

LMAO BigK <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I know you would! That's why my thread has been quiet for weeks. I think about what you and others would say before I post those same insecurities <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm pleased that brae posts them though. It's given me a wake up call today.

All joking aside, the only thing that worries me is that brae may be depressed in the clinical sense of the word. I wonder if he needs medical help. Not trying to be offensive brae!

Depression is certainly a possibility.

MW. No offence taken, thanks for you comments. It has just been on the odd day I have felt down, the last few weeks have been good. Don't think I am clinically depressed, just get down sometimes

Google the "Beck Depression Inventory" and take it.

Would just like to thank everyone for their help yesterday.
One question I do have from yesterday is regarding SF. My W, even pre-A, was never really one to initiate SF, she felt uncomfortable doing this, although most of the time she was very willing when I did.
We are having SF again, although this is always initiated by me, I told her, several weeks ago, how it helped Bigk and MrsK re-connect and so she agreed we should try it. My question is, regarding my neediness, should I continue initiating SF or back off. I am initiating SF because I know it can help to create an emotional bond. I know if I wait for her to initiate it could be a very long time, but I also believe that she is only really having SF for me at the moment.

When I said she is only really having SF for me at the moment, that was slightly wrong, she is only having SF to try and help us re-connect. It is hard for her, I think, to have SF with me while she is not in love with me

So you have spent your entire marriage with YOU initiating SF and you think that will/should/needs to change?

Why?

What are her EN's? WHat makes her feel close to you Brae?

Is she a willing participant? Does she orgasm? (now I mean?)

Did you do that depression quiz BTW??