Okay .. I am taking LA's advice and am beginning a thread over here. It does look like this area gets a lot more traffic than where I was originally ..

I copied and pasted my very first post and I have also included the link, so that it is easy to pull up and see the great responses that I have already gotten. Here is that link:

28 Years With "Addictive" Husband ...

... And here is my first post to this site:

[color:"blue"]I have reached my ultimate frustrations. I truly do not know what more I can do.

My husband of 28 years is once again in “addictive” mode. (IMO) For 22 years (since my daughter was just a baby) things have been always seemed to be on one roller coaster ride after another … with my husband.
[color:"blue"] [/color] [color:"blue"] [/color] [color:"blue"] [/color]
In my opinion he is always looking for “escapes”.

When we were married, my H began farming. Farming is what husband’s father did and his father before him. Because my father-in-law did not “think” about the possibility of his son ever going into farming (???), he sold his free and clear farm to developers. Thus, my husband had to go out and finance anything and everything he did …If he wanted to farm While husband’s dad DID help him, it was nothing even close to what other farm families did for their children that wanted to carry on their legacy.

It was very large amounts of $$ that had to be financed. I fill you in on this, ‘cause my husband has made arguments/statements to me WAY TOO MANY times over the years that all other farming families in the community (it used to be a large farming community, but has since grown/changed) “thought” about their children and significantly helped those sons/daughters continue on this life style. Not so with my husband and his father. My husband constantly feels a total betrayal from his parents. His dad passed away approximately 10 years ago. My husband has hung on to his anger/feelings of betrayal towards his parents. He says that when his mother passes, he will get nothing (because of the past farming failure and monies his parents put out to help him already). But .. in essence, he “helped” his parents keep the lands they purchased jointly intact and thus when the need arose to be sold, they profited greatly.

Okay .. nuff said about that. I was just trying to give a “brief” history as to “why” my husband is always in his depressive mode. Oh .. I guess I should add that we have a 27 year old “disabled” son that still lives at home. Our son was only (just recently) diagnosed with Asperger’s. Our son has borderline IQ, OCD and ADD. We made many mistakes with our son, because we (along with the local public school system) did not know what to do for him. My husband was extremely hard on our son. I believe that he could not/would not accept that there was anything wrong with our son. So .. my husband is now lamenting (ALSO) about all of the mistakes he made with our son.

Since about our sixth year of marriage to date, it seems like my husband is always “struggling”. He has had several different affairs, would abuse Ritalin (until his doc would no longer prescribe for him) and now, once again, is drinking every night.

My husband “used to be” self-employed. He “technically” still is, but his partner is the one (basically) keeping their business afloat. My husband is in the building contracting business.. and with the way the local economy has been, things have been really slow. Basically, from what his partner tells me, my husband refuses to do “small” jobs (he used to!). He maintains that he can’t make any $$ with those small jobs. But when encouraged to “bid” on the larger jobs that come to our area, husband maintains that everyone is underbidding, just to keep their employees busy. Well .. if it “works”, right?

When really “pushed” to get back to work (by me), my husband manipulates me and says things like, “Well, make sure you have life insurance on me, ‘cause I don’t think I’ll be around much longer.” He says that his depression just will not get any better. And he cannot “tolerate” people and/or work.

I forgot to mention that for the past 3 years my husband has been on Effexor XR, (antidepressant) Ambien (for sleep), Mirapex (for restless legs) and Provigil (for morning, cause he is so groggy .. from the ambient/alcohol he drank/took previous night)

Our current home is on a farmed/wooded 40 acres left over from our farming era. We have (in the past three years) refinanced twice. The amount of debt on our home/acreage is astronomical .. in my opinion.) Now, my husband is advocating that we borrow $10K more, so that we can (same as he said the two previous times before) “finish our home and sell it.

****** If any of you have made I to this point, I give you three very large gold stars. Whew!! I had no idea this would end up so long!

My frustrations stem from my husband “refusing” to work, using refinance monies as his “allowance”, drinking every night and spending (close to) $1000 monthly on his drinking.

I have done “the usual” .. begged/demanded that he stop drinking, etc. Told him that he MUST go back to work. Of course, all to no avail.

Currently I work more than overtime. If I begin going to Al-Anon meetings, because I am not there (home) it will be used as (yet) another excuse for my husband to head up to the bar on a regular basis. I am thinking that I will try to find a good book that will hopefully “push” me in the right direction as the steps to follow, so that I can gain some peace of mind.

In the meantime though, I MUST find a way to stop my husband from spending so much money at the bars. Does anyone have any idea how I can (diplomatically) do this?

Thanks for any input/feedback.

IG[/color]

It is a very busy day for me today (Friday), but my plan, for the weekend, is to get back here and update, respond etc.

Thanks!!
IG

I would remove the money and cut him off completely. Help him hit bottom and maybe he will get help for his problem. But as long as you continue to be "diplomatic" to a drunk, he will exploit you. You are only an opportunity for exploitation for him, you should understand this and protect yourself accordingly.

Oh, and don't refinance again, he just needs more money to drink.

From Penalty Kill

Your H is drinking and taking Ambien and ADs. Great. I'll bet he drives to and from the bar. Hope I don't pass him on the road.

Al Anon for you, for sure. Please get to a meeting - like, yesterday. Then go to a bookstore and get the book "Codependent no more" by Melody Beattie. You are the very definition of a codie....see if you recognize yourself.

[color:"blue"]I have copied and paste(d) LovingAnyways response to me from my original thread. (I hope that's okay LA?) I am still mulling over all she had to say to me and I will be responding.

Am also thinking about the other two responses I received in my new "flat" here and want to respond. I have lots to think about and I will be responding .. (Thanks All!)

Here is LA's response to me:
[/color]
I'm here, IG...lost my way quite a bit.

Thank you for the call out...you can change the title back.

Linking my old threads...I haven't had many. My history can be found here:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post2985922

Not my first thread...halfway down the page, sort of, I tell 2BNormal a summarized version.

"I guess .. in a nutshell, these are all saying .."Hey! IG, begin with starting to own your own "stuff". Leave all of your husband's "stuff" alone!! There is absolutely nothing you can do about his "stuff" anyways!!"

I think you said this better than I did, IG. You already know "listen and repeat with filter", I think.

I began with what you control and you cannot because that's straight from Al-Anon. And it's where I began, too.

I read your two posts a few times...and didn't reply because I perceived you are saying that you want to stay married at all costs. If you enforce your boundary or respect his stuff as his, then he'll leave...so you're basing your choices on his choice of actions.

We don't do marriage here at all costs...way too pricey for any human. What we do is say here's a great way to live your life within marriage...your choice.

"the "ultimate" in another one of his manipulation trips."

I believe that both of you are engaged in manipulation...you are choosing what you do and not do based on his possible response. Which is the same thing he's doing...in my perception.

Manipulation isn't bad or wrong...it's not healthy because it's fantasy. You can't make him leave for three days or a week...and he can't make you not go to Al-Anon...not share your stuff.

We can sure experience life as if we make others and they make us, though.

In reality, respecting his choices is the way to respect your own...and see them as separate.

If I said, "If you take this pill, you may thrive," would you not take it if a side effect was your H being angry at you?

Oh, I just had a V8 moment...my very first suggestion to you would have been to post in Infidelity: General Questions II forum. It gets the most traffic and you've had this experience in your marriage.

It's all tied together, by the way.

I wasn't ignoring your post...I was pondering what to say...from my highest honesty.

Thank you for persisting and being here.

You are not alone, bad or wrong...and you're not crazy. If you choose to copy and paste your post in GQII, you'll find many helpful people who have been where you are right now.

LA

--------------------
me FWW - 45
FWH - 45
3 S; 23, 21, 17
FWH - EA/PA 8 weeks
FWH moved back in 10/24/04 &
Committed to M 12/15/04
MC/IC 10/04 - 7/06
In Recovery and so grateful for our M

"If you can't be smarter than the box...move the box." ~ LA (Stumbled over that sucker four times this morning)

I had to respond to this excuse. I am married to an active alcoholic and so I have quite a bit of experience here.

Your husband will always have an excuse to drink. You have ZERO control over his drinking. Staying home from Alanon will not make him drink less. In fact, he will not drink even one drop less if you stay or you go.

He needs you to believe that you are responsible for his drinking because it lets him off of the hook for his own choices. You need to believe that you are responsible for his drinking because then it is something you can control and fix.

Go to Al Anon!


My dear ~ what you need is to make some choices for yourself instead of waiting to be pushed. You can't force your husband to take responsibility for his life, his choices, his stuff, but you can start taking responsiblity for you. Take back your power, instead of waiting for someone or something else to decide your life.


Well, this is easy. You make the money and he does not. Open a bank account in your name only and put your money there. Don't give him money to drink. Don't sign paperwork to give him money to drink. You can control your participation in his drinking habit, so just don't!

IG, I can't give you a bunch of nice, cute words but I can tell you that you are the PERFECT patsy for an alcoholic. We LOVE enablers like you. Your H has a great SET UP and I bet he hopes you don't go to Alanon because they can ruin this great racket. He is playing you like a fiddle!

As a recovering alcoholic with 22 years sobriety, I can just tell you that your H has NO REASON whatsoever to quit drinking with you protecting him from the consequences like you are. He can - and will - go on forever like this. Especially if you use Plan A! Alcholics JUST LOVE Plan A! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I would only suggest that if you persist in enabling him, that you have forfeited your right to complain. You are HELPING him stay sick, so you can't claim to be a victim. You are a volunteer; an accessory to the crime.

In addition to cutting off his money, I would suggest calling the police on him the next time he goes drunk driving. A night in jail will work wonders!

From Penalty Kill


I was going to suggest this...around these parts I think that you lose your license for six months (maybe more? not sure) on a DUI and may have to go to rehab and/or AA. Since he's not working, losing the license wouldn't be a problem. You'd have to pay court fees though.

It would be one way of forcing the issue.

I'm surprised that someone combining ambien, alcohol and ADs doesn't wake up...dead. That's a heavy load.

Hi LA,

I'm not sure that you'll even find time to read this .. but reading, mulling over and "answering" some of the points you brought up is part of my "assignment" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. So, I thought I would address your post to see what it pulls out of me .. ?

First off, thanks much for sharing your "history". You truly had your own saga to get through, didn't you? As hard as it was to do .. you did it. After reading a number of your other posts, it is truly (as we all know) a life-long journey .. isn't it?



Yes, I do know this. "Doing" is a whole 'nother story though, isn't it?



You know .. I (previously) was quite involved in reading and trying to implement the DivorceBusters program, applying it to my situation. (That has been for approximately the past three years.) I am realizing, that for someone in MY situation, it will not work. For me, it has just made things worse. I was always trying to "apply" DB principles to my situation, by continuing to "take care" of my husband, backing off ANY criticism and trying to be supportive. I believe (NOW) this is NOT something you should implement with an "addictive" spouse.

Enforcing my boundary .. or respecting his stuff as his .. well, yes, this is really HUGE for me. I'm not sure when I really "noticed" this, but I really am "emotionally unstable" when it comes to dealing with my husband. Since our first year of marriage, I have always worked very hard at staying a step ahead of anything that may cause my husband to get angry. (Including me!) I have become a big time conflict avoider. I absolutely HATE conflict.



I DO understand all that you are saying here. I just need to get "there" .. to be able to do this. It's been a lifetime of doing the same "dance" over and over and now I am (I guess?) just as "sick" as he is.

IG

Hi PB,



That is exactly what I thought. I did a lot of internet searches over the past couple of years, and apparently this is not uncommon. Combining the alcohol and Ambien. .. And goodness, don't think that I am trying to "justify" this by any means .. just that (sadly) it is way too common.

My husband, takesAmbien for sleep. He takes it as soon as he walks in the door at night. (When he returns from the bar.) I will say this, I never see my husband "act" drunk .. even for as much as he drinks. Once he takes that Ambien (at home) after all of the alcohol, he gets very goofy .. almost scarey (to me.)



This thought did cross my mind. But, my community is too small. A gal I know did just this (on her husband) and somehow her husband found out it was her that called in. I will think on this one some more. I know that there has to be another way around this.

Do you know .. if for a first time offense, they require the AA/rehab? .. And the losing of the license? Okay, the more I think about this, I guess I know, it's probably locality that would dictate this.

IG

Hi BrambleRose


So .. how do YOU cope? What are (specifically) some of the things that you are doing that is allowing you to cope?

I know that you give me specifics that I need to start implementing, but it helps me, to actually hear others stories and (specifically) what has "worked" for others.



>>>>Sigh<<<< I DO know this. I am just beginning this journey. I believe it will be a very long, hard road. Please bear with me as I take those first steps (and probably repeated steps backwards).

Thanks,
IG

Melody,



This makes total sense to me.

I am here to (hopefully) take those first steps towards MY healthier life.

As nauseating as (my situation)is to read (I'm sure!) I hope you folks will have the patience to help "guide" me through.

I appreciate your candor. I really DO need to see what you have to say .. in front of my face, probably daily. How else will those current "etchings" (in my brain) get changed?

Thanks,
IG

Forgot to mention .. on any of my today's reply posts, I have found a close Al-Anon meeting and plan on beginning to attend this week.

You don't know what you've had til it's gone..isn't there an expression that goes something like that? Well, I think it's so true. And not that, I'm an advocate of you leaving a man who needs you so much and who presumably loves you dearly. However I'm a huge supporter in somehow/some way making him realize you are not a rag doll who can be pulled along through the muck and mire..come what may. Show him that you have the self esteem enough to walk away from a destructive circumstance in which you may see no benefit being in. Sometimes realizing exactly all you stand to lose if you continue bull-headedly charging down the same path you did yesterday and the day before that, will make you re-evaluate exactly what things/people are most important in life and it may become clear to him the obvious actions he has to take if he doesn't wish for the security of knowing you love him and will be there to be compromised. Sorry about the run-ons..that's how they happen in my head <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hi HTG!


Yeah, I think there are even some song lyrics that go something like that ..?



Wow! Great analogy. I guess I could say that is exactly the way I am feeling. Like a rag doll who has been pulled through the muck and mire.

But I have "allowed" this, haven't I?



I do have that self-esteem, buried somewhere down deep. I need to get that back .. for ME.

The very scarey part about all of this is that I am really doubting that my husband has it in him to make any changes. He has ALWAYS been one to try to take the easy way out .. of ANY situation. I foresee him doing this with his current situation ALSO.

Okay .. I verbalized that (probably shouldn't have) but that said, I do know that I must not let how he may or may not respond affect what I do from here on forward.

All so much easier said than done.

I will gradually forge forward though ...

Thanks,
IG

EXACTLY. Feelings FOLLOW ACTION, though. You can't sit around and wait for a magic feeling to land on you. YOU ACT. You call the police on your husband the next time he drives drunk. You cut off his money tomorrow.

That is how you change the "etchings" on your mind, by acting RESPONSIBLY towards your sick husband instead of irresponsibly. Your husband is a sick man and the answer is CONSEQUENCES, not enabling.

So, don't wait for a "feeling" to come along and "change the etchings" of your mind, bring the body and the mind will follow. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

From Penalty Kill

IG, they are going to be putting a new warning on bottles of ambien. It is a sedative/hypnotic. They are discovering that people have been doing things while "sleeping"(sedative), such as eating and driving. They have no memory of having done so (hence, the hypnotic). The father of an acquaintance of my H's took ambien one night, went for a walk in the middle of the night, and ended up in a water-filled ditch.

He drowned.

When you combine alcohol, a central nervous system depressant, along with this kind of drug, as well as ADs, you are really setting yourself up for some unpredictable results. Hence, the "goofy(ness)" that you describe.

Granted, your H's tolerance for these drugs and alcohol is probably on the high side, but still. I'd be very concerned if I were you.

You would have to check the laws in your state; I do know that the rules regarding DUIs have become more stringent in the past decade or so, and with good reason....impaired drivers kill people.

I'm glad you're attending some AlAnon meetings. You will undoubtedly find some guidance there.

Take care.

IG ~ I cope by understanding what is mine to be responsible for, and leaving everything else to God's capable hands. I learned to do this by going to Al Anon.

You go to AlAnon for you, not for him.