My wife had an affair with a co-worker(her boss). I found out when his wife called my house at midnight. The affair occured while both were out of town together on company business several months ago. However they also work somewhat closely and the relationship has built up. She was reporting to him. My wife reveals that she loves him and will be leaving me for him. Simply put, I am shocked, devastated, an empty shell. I am 45, she is 38.

She claims her love for me has been gone for some time now. She states that she does not hate me just does not love me anymore. She states that he has shown that he cares for her and loves her.

From this, we have discussed many things. The main topic would appear to be in the area of emotional needs. I did not show her that I loved her and was not caring or supportive in many events of her life. I agree that I have said some things that have been hurtful to her(uncaring). I believe hurtful things were said on both sides throught the years and communication was lacking, but did not feel I had lost her love.

I love my wife and have expressed the fact that I was/am not good at expressing my emotional love(words,gestures)however, that the love always existed and has always been.

Her sister died several years ago and she indicates that a big hole has existed in her since. I feel I could have been more supportive and responsive in this and other things.

I am devastated and want her to give our marriage and kids(11,8) one more chance. She has refused.

I don't know what to do or how to convince her otherwise. We have talked and there has been many tears(mostly mine). I trusted her and felt she would be the only person in my life. I have been with her since she was 17 and still love her.

I am desperate and at a loss of what else I can or should say or do. PLEASE HELP.

Welcome to marriagebuilders. It is a good place to be under the circumstances.

Start in Plan A, which is showing her what a GREAT husband you can be with no angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements. Also let the other man's wife know about this site.

Most men never leave their wives, so there is an excellent the affair will end now that his wife knows. When the affair ends, she will regain her feelings for you.

Unfortunately he is leaving his wife also. The plan really doesn't seem to address my situation. I really am unable to convince her of anything.

They all SAY they are leaving their wives, but they don't.

Plan A will address your situation. The wayward spouses are all the same, and talk the same. They think they are madly in love and are done with the marriage. But that changes.

Stick with us, and read more about Plan A. The first couple of treads here have some good info. Or you can post over on general questions II. There are a whole bunch of men right now in your same situation.

There is lots of hope, although it doesn't seem like it right now.

I'm not sure how or what to negotiate. I have been thoughtless, inconsiderate and did not provide emotional needs. Discussions of seperation are civil. She plans to move in with him once he has his affairs in order. He too is married with children. We have two young girls. I was thinking of wrting her a letter how I really have loved her and the mistake that I have made. I'm not sure what else I can do. Do I just start asking her to leave him out of the blue ? Where do I start ?

Well, its been a couple of weeks and my mind is a little clearer my heart healing a bit. She will be moving out into her new life. There is nothing that I can say or do that will change her mind. But what has really irked me lately is that I discovered she has seeked support from people(girlfriends) who although seemingly care, are giving her the same fantasy world advice. These women have their own husband problems. In fact, I'm sure that one of them has encouraged her to go with him and convinced her that this guy has somehow proved his love for her. This guy I found out is miserable living with his wife. Unfortunately, there is no one in her inner circle(family incl) that will tell her to look at reality, be honest with herself and see what infedelity is and what it has done. It seems that I have grown from this but am alone. This is becoming so terribly frustrating. It would appear that I have to just let go of her or it'll continue hurt me. I guess like my friends have said, I better start thinking and doing things for myself, my life and my kids. It also appears that there are a lot of factors involved and that there is no simple solution.

Hi Mike,

Our stories are not that different. You can find my first days here Chrisner Day 1 . In fact there are several men in very close situations as yours.

There is still a lot you can do. Have you been reading much here?

Are you clear on the concept and goals of Plan A and Plan B?

I suggest it is time for you to repost your story on the General Questions II forum where there is a lot more traffic and information.

Include as much information as you can. Stay persistant and you will get a lot of experienced input.

Your wife is in a fantasy infactuation, she is not in love. Get over to GQII as soon as possible.

Any chance your wife is with my husband? The 2 week anniversary of his announcement to me was last night. Apparently, the OW told her H 2 weeks before that. Your story sound so exactly like mine - my H said EXACTLY the same thing both about his feelings for his OW and lack of feelings for me. Also said that I didn't provide him enough emotional support or caring - which may have been true since he was never one for physical displays of affection and eventually I backed off (though this was over the course of 17 years). And all of his coworkers are behind the 2 of them - they've even offered them a place to stay together starting in July. He doesn't even want to wait that long. I have barely been introduced to these people, so I'm sure I could be the miserable wife your wife's OM is talking about.

I am having a really rough time making any attempt at Plan A since I'm utterly heartbroken, depressed and downright scared and lonely.

Mike and Tabby,

Have either of you read Surviving An Affair yet. It gives not only descriptions of Plan A and Plan B, but the reasoning behind them.

The biggest mistake so many make in the beginning is to try to reason with their WS. I know I did.

This does not work because there is nothing logical about an A. The M has already been abandoned by the WS and has been reasoned to be "the problem" by them as a part of the justification process they engaged in to avoid making themselves the "bad guy" in all of it.

Plan A is not about negotiating. It is about competing with OP for the love of the WS in the total absence of getting anything, a commitment, a kind word, a show of affection, in return.

Reasons given by the WS for what has happened and what is taking place are nothing more than fog-speak WS babble....Blah, blah, blah.

The BS has NO control over the WS or any decisions they might make, but they do have control over how they respond and what they do to give them the best shot at saving the M. To this end it becomes necessary that the BS make changes to themselves, attempt to meet any ENs of the WS that can be identified and avoid all love busters. By making the changes that make them (the BS) a better marriage partner it shows the WS what the M could be if they choose to stay together with the BS.

All this must be accomplished with no expectations of anything in return from the WS since it will be unmet expectations that will cause you (the BS) the most grief.

Have both of you exposed the A to those that can do the most to cause the fantasy to crack and succumb to its inevitable demise? Assuming you are not dealing with the same A, expose to OP's spouse. Expose to family and trusted friends. Be aware that this will be viewed as standing in the way of the happiness of the WS and will lead to anger, complete with verbal spewing of some of the most hurtful things you will ever encounter. But a M can survive anger of the WS. It cannot survive rolling over and pretending that it will all just go away while the A continues to grow.

If the A partners work together, especially if one reports to the other, contacting HR or others in control of the company in person or by telephone can put pressure on the A because most companies wish to avoid bad publicity and giving support to adultery in the midst of their company can be very bad publicity.

Don't give up unless you are ready to move on alone. Dr Harley suggests that the window for recovery can even remain open for up to two years after a divorce is final. Only each of you can make the determination if this is a viable option in your individual situations.

Since most of the traffic here is in GQII, posting there will get you much more input, but some of it may seem harsh, though the reason behind the advice is to save marriages, something many around here are passionate about.

Mark

Hi Mike,

As was said by others, a lot of the things you've heard your WS say, and what others around her have said or done, all have happened again and again with others here on MB. The girlfriends for instance talking her into it, same thing. Your WS in talking to the girlfriends for support to help decide it, that is more indecision, the "fog" is making it hard for her to think, so she asks others for help in thinking.

Believe me, your best chances to get through this are to drop any anger or demands, offer love, caring, being interested to talk with her if she wants to, be affectionate, offer forgiveness, and always try to look for the positive. Tell her if the A comes up in a discussion that you feel hurt. At first she won't respond to that, but later she'll think on it and will remember loving you and feel some guilt over what she's done. If she's still living at home, you still have a good shot at keeping your marriage, if that's what you want to do.

Right now, she is out on a limb. At any time, the OM and his W could reconcile and she's going to do what? It is very unstable where she's at, either could leave the other due to guilt, due to not liking the other living at home, due to indecision, due to the hurt it's causing. Let her know about the hurt it's causing, she'll then talk "fog" with the OM and that will destabilize it more.

There is no guarantee of anything. The probability is that it won't work out for them and that she will deeply regret what she's done. She will wonder how she could have gotten mixed up in such a mess. Everyone in both families are going through great turmoil and both the WS and OM are feeling lots of pressure to both act and not act, being torn in both directions at once.

Sit back, relax and plan. Then review the plan. You have time to do this. Let them feel the pressure while you find out all the top ENs your wife has. Then work as hard as you can to figure out how to meet those ENs. Read the Harley's books, and read the site. Exercise as much as you can, now, it relieves stress and also maintains or builds up some level of additional physical attractiveness and will also calm you some and help you sleep. Get lots of sleep.

Go out and buy new clothes, shoes, jacket, and get a hair cut. Clean everything around you, your car inside and out. Get all dressed up much more than you typically would, appear as if you're in a dating mode, your wife will both desire this, and start to feel some jealousy when she thinks you might be out and about if she's gone. If she is gone, you go out too, go to fun places, start being more social and don't be afraid to only say "just out having some fun" if she asks. Say you felt down being home alone and happy when you went out.

You are in plan A right now, get the ENs settled out and work on them daily. Make a list and review it often so you can keep up on them. Ignore the WS attitude, she will say very hurtful things, those things help her justify why she's doing what she's doing. Don't let what she says sink in, it's "fog talk". Instead, offer love and caring for her and tell her you feel hurt by what she's said and don't want to talk about A issues.

Remember, if she's still with you, some of that "fog" talk will happen between them too. They're both confused and both won't want to leave their S's. It's not a great situation to be in for them, and can fall apart faster dependent on what you do.

You have a good chance of turning it around, but it is very hard work initially, and becomes easier over time. If you feel you're losing love and soon won't love her anymore, move to plan B so you can retain some of that love until the A is over. Good luck.

God bless,
CS

The responses are great and I appreciate them all. It just seems to me that my spouse has planned this, or at least thought about this for some time. Separation has been requested, details somewhat agreed on. The OM has also started separation. The lack of her taking any responsibility, the seemingly disregard for infidelity or my feelings is almost too much to bare. She has justified everything in her mind. I am trying to be nice but am losing the battle. If I continue to care for her I will continue to hurt. I accepted her for all that was good and all that was bad. She, it would appear, has not. plan B seems to me as my last resort.

Oh Mike - I swear this is exactly where I'm at. I don't know what is left of Plan A to try. I can't show him love if I never see him. The A is already exposed and nobody other than me seems to mind - somebody is actually giving them a house to live in for a year!!! If your wife is not my OW, then there is another message board somewhere telling them how to leave a marriage that they both are reading. I am so empty, alone and frightened on top of this great loss. I just don't know how this happened.

Mike,

Listen to me. You can put a HUGE dent in this A right now. All you need to do is EXPOSE this affair (with your proof) to OM's boss and HR. Most companies will not allow an affair between a worker and their supervisor. In fact, some companies might even fire the supervisor. Set up a meeting with HR at the company they work for. Your goal is to bust up their affair. Do not agree to anything. Your W is trying to negotiate an amicable divorce. It is time to get tough and not give into anything she asks for. You need to do some scorched earth strategic assault on the affair.

Hi Mike,

As long as she's in the home with you, you have time, and both of your and her actions can help, or hinder, her being with you rather than him.

Each day she is with you, and the OM is with the OMW, is one more day that they have to acknowledge that who they're seeing isn't being faithful to them. They will assume the other is lying to them, what else can they believe? They know what they're getting by what they themselves have done, and it will eat them alive, especially when they talk "fog" with each other. Neither wants to leave their marriage, or they would have the first day. It is very easy to pick up most of the things they need and leave. They haven't left yet. They are still thinking in the "fog". You have time as long as she's there to keep depositing love units.

As a BS, I've heard all the stuff you'll hear: either should move out, separation, divorce, both do whatever they want, I still love you, I don't love you anymore and others. It is the same thing for many of us. There will be periods of time when the WS will love you deeply, and other times when you're an annoyance for not moving out, separating, etc...

Make your WS and the OM do all the work. Make them figure it out. The "fog" takes it's toll on them too. One will make up their mind, and the other will avoid it because it's a decision they don't want. Believe me, if they wanted to be together, they'd have left and been together ever since on the day you started this in the forum. If you can still talk with her, you can still deposit love units.

No anger, no demands, tell her you love her and you feel hurt. Tell her you miss her and care about her. Don't be afraid to show how much you care about her. She needs this to help her make up her mind. The OM will be stalling, and it will make her mad. She will be stalling and the OM will be mad. They have no deep 22 year commitment, you do.

And like the previous reply said, expose, now. Find everyone that she cares about, and tell them. Tell her work. Tell your relatives, everyone she's ever cared about must know, even your kids. She has to see the reality of what she's doing to her family, her husband, and herself. She will regret it the rest of her life, and she must know now just how wrong it is. The chances are that sooner or later the A will fail. Try to outlast it and keep giving her love units through meeting her ENs. Go to plan B if you feel you can't outlast it. For sure, don't make it easier for them.

God bless,
CS

Tabby1, I have been so deep into my own despear I have literally overlooked your letters of pain and suffering. For this I apologize. I am sure your husband is not with my wife. But let me say that talking with friends really helps, if only temporary. Especially ones that understand what you are going through. It appears that my wife's friends and family will not question her actions but simply support her in her decision. I am somewhat but not entirely surprised. You know, I never saw this coming and my wife has still not accepted any responsibilty but continues to blame me for everything. I don't see this changing any time soon. Tabby1, don't be scared and lonely, you sound very intelligent and you are a caring person. The hurt and pain will lessen over time, if only just a bit. I don't mean to sound like I'm giving up but, you know, there is a possibility that you and I may one day end up loving someone else. Just a thought. Plan A is sooooo hard. I may post in GQII soon.

Mike,

Hang in there. The basic portion of this site is that affairs most often end and when they do, if the BS has played their cards right, they get the opportunity to rebuild or move on as a choice, not a mandate.

Do your best and hang in there. Please read the articles and Harley's Surviving an Affair.

God Bless,

JL

Mike and Tabby, I'm having my own saga...I just wanted to say to you both, that my coming here has been the only blessed thing that has happened to me in weeks.

Buy the book, Surviving An Affair. I couldn't concentrate through the tears, while reading excerpts on the computer. The concepts just aligned so much better for me in the textbook form. The book drew me in immediately.

I can't offer any assistance, but I want you both to know that I will include both of you in my prayers tonight...I really will.

Mike I know you aren't the OWH but I've spoken to him now and he sounds just like you. I think I have just turned a corner myself in accepting this whole mess. As the articles and the book say, your WS has been invaded by an alien. I'm only seeing this now because through all my pain, I have not been rational myself. Someday, somebody will discover the disease or virus that causes this because the stuff that they do is beyond irrational. The wounds are so deep now, I don't know that I'll be able to recover. Everything he does adds to the hurt so much more and I think I've finally surpassed my threshold - now I'm numb. One has to be a real monster to do this to another person. That's what I see now when I look at him.

Hi Tabby and everyone. I am just so sad for my kids now more than anything. However my wife is not the person who I like or dislike. I was very happy with myself and my marriage. She was not. Her hurtful act was selfish and cowardly. She secured her love with someone else and then ripped my heart into pieces. The sadness I feel right now is not anger. I think I am trying to forgive myself for the failure of the relationship even though I was not the one who committed the adultry. I know I am not to blame but this feeling of emptyness is so hard to overcome. The home is now a broken home. My kids now from a broken home. I use to be strong and now feel I've lost some of who I am. Helplessness to change this situation may be another thing I will have to rise above. All letters of support are really appreciated. Thanks.

Hi again...after some time for reflection it appears that I am able to see things somewhat differently. Sometimes people just have a hard time accepting who they are and when you are unhappy or insecure, everything becomes about you. It's a very sad existence...but does not necessarily mean you are a bad person....I don't know, maybe just a lonely person. Although I am a bit older and experienced in life, it looks like there is always something new to discover, this includes things about myself too. I am not perfect however, now, I must do what I need to do in order to better myself and my kids..that's all I can do..
There is a lot of things a person goes through life to become who they are....the first step towards happiness though....is looking at yourself and liking what you see.
Yes, I lost something inside me and it was very sad but, I guess I found something else.
Thanks, everyone.