Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
OP Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
Dear Killer Bees:

I have noticed of late that several of the folks here in GQII who are in longer-term Plan-B's are having serious doubts about what the support they are receiving here and what exactly they are doing all this FOR. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It is my understanding that all of this--this whole website, the forums, this thread even--all of this is for the express purpose of recovering your marriage IF IT IS AT ALL POSSIBLE. I throw in that last part, in bold letters, because as we all know by now, some marriages are not recoverable. Sometimes a BS could do a perfect Plan A, a dark, silent Plan B...and the M could still not be recoverable because the WS was abusive or had an addiction. We ALL know that not all marriages can be saved!

But...that being said...

It is my understanding that all advice given here is given by amateurs. It is my understanding that some of us have been here for several years and have seen many, MANY, MANY affairs and know the general pattern. It is my understanding that all advice is given with the goal being to save the marriage wherever possible, and secondarily to save the individual posting here. (BTW, I don't mean that saving the individual is any less of a success, but rather that is it a goal in the instance where the first goal is not an option.) Finally, it is my understanding that this is not a "support group" wherein we give what I call "sunshine enemas" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />--in other words, always blowing smoke up the hooha saying, "everything is fine" when it clearly isn't!! On the occasion, a poster will be all over the board emotionally or reacting with LB's left and right, and we TRY to give a person like that a much needed 2x4 with the express intent of doing almost like a Hollywood "slap in the face" to wake them up and say, "Hey, snap to!" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bearing all this in mind, I will be specific.

For some long-term Killer Bees like silentlucidity and sdguy...I see no reason that they couldn't be in Plan B for as long as they like, waiting out the eventual demise of the A if they want to. Both of those two have their ducks in a row, are financially pretty protected and have their custody pretty lined up, and are doing some very good personal work to learn and grow and mature as an individual. I think a person like that, who is detaching and working on them self while they wait is a fairly good example of someone who could wait in Plan B for a while and either recover their M when the A inevitably ends...or recover them self and realize that it's time to move on at a time when they so decide. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

For some other Killer Bees, I see a repeating pattern of staying involved with the WS...staying entangled and emotionally and mentally enmeshed. They break down and have contact. They continue to allow the WS to manipulate or control them. They do not detach and they do not go through the hard part of withdrawing from their WS. For Killer Bees like that--who stay entangled and do not detach--it is to them that I would sometimes say, "You need to let go and move on" and that does not mean "You need to give up on your M"--it means, "You need to detach and withdraw from the A drama and your WS. When you have done that and you are living your own life, THEN your WS will be able to either come back to the strong you when the A ends or you will be able to survive when your WS decides to be prideful and refuses to return!"

Does this make sense??

***********************************************************

Soooooo...for you Killer Bees who either ARE detaching and disentangling...and for you Killer Bees who are beginning to see the wisdom in detaching...and you are still searching for support and encouragement for the Long-term Plan B...

...what exactly do you have in mind? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> What do you envision? Something like, "Here are some things you can do to build yourself and your self-esteem while you're in Plan B?" (Like a plan for Plan B--heehee <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) or what? Help me out here and tell me what you would LIKE to see that you're NOT seeing.

Thanks!!

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871
I know it gets tiresome to repeat the same old things; 'go dark' 'stop communicating by email' 'stop picking up that phone'.

It becomes easy to make up excuses to take those crumbs. Sooooo easy. I know, because I did, especially early on in Plan B (last year). I'm dark again, and happy for it. I cut my WH off at the pass, because he continued to talk about his personal life. I laid the ground rules (because my intermediary didn't want to be a part of it) and he broke them three to four times.

I actually wrote WH an email stating that I want to know NOTHING, not where he stopped for lunch (I'd rather he starved, to be honest), not that he bought tickets to some show, or had to work late. NADA, nothing.

The only acceptable correspondence was something like---I'll be picking DS up at X o'clock and droppong off at X o'clock. NOTHING ELSE. WH didn't want to do that because then he couldn't keep me hangin on. I want the choice of hangin on as long as I can, MY CHOICE, not his anymore. He gave up that right when he walked out on his family.



A good plan would be to set up something so that NO Killer B's are communicating directly with their spouses. No excuses, no need. All communication about property can go through their lawyers or through an intermediary. No tone to emails, just the facts. I have volunteered and that still stands.

I was able to get my GF, my former intermediary, to reassume the position, with a promise that I will cause no drama on my end (I was terrible about becoming angry). To be honest, I would prefer someone who is not a conflict avoider, themselves, but I'll take what I can get right now. That's a whole other story... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,155
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,155
SL: I'll be your intermediary. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Another Plan B tip that I didn't understand until it knocked me upside the head....being very, very wary of communicating AT ALL with ANYONE who might relay info to the WS.

This inadvertently totally un-does your Plan B.

I communicated with MIL, who apparently communicated with WH, even thought she swore up and down every time that everything I told her was confidential. I'm sure it was all well-intentioned, but it was no good for me.

Also, she un-did (made up word, I know) my Plan B by parroting WH. Trying--again, well-intentioned--to be the mediator, smooth things over...trouble is, she is really incapable of seeing the true evil of the W in H. Did that make sense?

She wanted to see the best in him, so she would insist to me that WH was not being hurtful, not being mean, that *I* was being unreasonable by being dark....as I said, PARROTING WH.

That undermined by Plan B because it HURT me.

To me, Plan B is a BUFFER ZONE. My safe place where I can grow and heal and get strong among people who love and SUPPORT me WITHOUT ANY of the monkey crap that the wayward throws. It is preparing for recovery...hopefully of my marriage, but either way, the recovery of ME.

I don't think that's anti-MB. I don't have it in front of me, but the last "point" that is made about the Sue scenario is that if she didn't come back, then her BH would have gotten to a place where he could move on. In SAA, we don't see THAT potential outcome, because of course Plan B worked. But it doesn't always...and the book doesn't tell us about that outcome.

I KNOW that I HAVE to save ME. I have two boys who are also being tossed about in this ocean of infidelity, and I need to be a d*mn strong swimmer so that I can get all of us to shore. I cannot save WH...he is going to sink or swim on his own. I sure hope he makes it, but I am not going to drown--or let my boys drown--trying to save him.

I LOVE the idea of a Plan for Plan B. Plan A is so much doing, and I am a doer. Trouble is, I think we all need to "do" Plan B in our own way...EXCEPT that we MUST MUST MUST be DARK. Frankly, I don't see why this is so difficult (exception being when I inadvertently broke it by talking to MIL). ????

Give me an example of a time when a Bee thinks he/she CAN'T be dark and I'll help you figure out how to do whatever and still be dark. It CAN be done (not to sound like meggy here!)

(I know this post was a grammatical nightmare, sorry...)

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 5,871
Great post Sis!

My WH has no family, really, besides me and my DS. His adoptive parents and natural parents are all dead. He rarely speaks to his step father or half brother. I have family, but they don't communicate with WH at all, why would they?

The only time WH will know anything about me is if he has to drop my son off at a friends house because I am hanging out there.

I mowed the lawn and cleaned up some of the flower beds yesterday; everything looks just beautiful. The sun really didn't peak it's head through the clouds much yesterday, but today, (hear angels singing) the sun is all you can see. It is beautiful and the freshly cut lawn and perky flowers look breathtaking. I'm sure my WH will notice that today, even be a bit jealous. Hah, good! Another strike against the 'apartment' life that he is living.

Wow, that sounded snarky, but that's how I feel. What a maroon. THis house is great! I think today, once the temp raises a bit and WH takes DS, I will work on cleaning my car and changing the oil. My son decided to write on teh back window with crayons OVER two months ago, and it's STILL there. I have been a liiiiittle busy...


Me-BS-38
Married 1997; son, 8yo
Divorced April 2009
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,155
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,155
Me, too! Mowed the grass for the first time yesterday (mower started up on the first try, thank you Mr. Neighbor!); got the grass mowed, the flower beds cleaned out, and today I will do the edging. Can't put any annuals in yet (too early), but things are looking good.

And the sun is out in full force today, again...birds are chirping, windows open, everything smells like spring...I'll be wearing a tank top so that I can get some sun (I know, a melanoma in the making, but I feel so much better with a little color).

ME time, today. There's a bit of a plan for Plan B:

1. Stay DARK DARK DARK DARK in your happy buffer zone
2. Do house and garden stuff.
3. Take bubble baths and light candles
4. Enjoy ALONE time when the kids are away...sleep in, eat food in which the ingredients TOUCH each other
5. Listen to only GOOD, SUPPORTIVE voices
6. Go shopping!
7. Take on a new project at work or immerse yourself in work
8. Learn how to do things that WS always did...weed and feed, how to run equipment that runs on a mix of oil/gas, change the oil/spark plugs
9. Listen to the birds and feel the sun on your face
10. Do things ALONE (or with the kids) that you only would have done with WS before. Expand your comfort zone....go on adventures


any more???

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,138
FEW people here really believe that plan B is about saving you marriage

THAT'S what SAA says plan B is for

when you go to plan B with saving your marraige as your goal instead of using it to allow you to move on in case your marriage isn't saved........VERY FEW people here support you

people keep saying that i'm not going to save my marraige if i don't do plan B the right way and that i'm not doing plan B the right way because i'm not "moving on"

i am doing exactly what SAA and Jennifer harley say that i should be doing

and yet the people here who think they are experts don't support me

SAA says that going into plan B will PRESERVE your LOVE FOR YOUR HUSBAND and yet, for those of us who's love is preserved enough that we still want to save our marraige, people here crush our hope into dust

yes, because of plan B, you may be ready to move on WHEN YOU FEEL THAT YOU'VE WAITED LONG ENOUGH.....with no NEW love bank deposits from your wayward spouse

your LOVEBANK may still become empty no matter how much you try to preserve it

BUT we should be supported here until WE beleive that our lovebanks are empty and we feel we have waited and hoped long enough for US

that's what i believe a SUPPORT SITE should be for anyway

i have told jennifer...that i don't think there's much hope left for my marraige

THAT'S when she got firm and sounds angry when she said....."too many people give up too soon. i believe you should wait at least another year if you feel you are able to..... Most affairs do end before 2 years but many last longer.....i REFUSE to believe that your husband is happy in this relationship and i DON'T believe it's going to last."

and then i come here and people DON'T agree with her or support what she said (isn't that what this site is for?)

and when i request a session with her because PEOPLE HERE make me feel like i need to give up hope.....

JENNIFER TELLS ME NOT TO GIVE UP she says the people here are not experts and are only feeling their way along just as i am...that they are NO MORE an expert than I am

they are just people telling you what they believe based upon thier experiences and reading here....

in fact, she said that maybe coming to the site isn't a good idea if i'm not finding support here

many of the self-appointed and referred to by others "experts" here are NOT advising others what the HARLEY'S WOULD ADVISE

and i find that those same people are supportive during plan A, during exposure and at the beginning of plan B because that is when THEY believe you have the best chance of recovering your marraige

after that.....well they seem to desert those of us in plan B for the long haul

they tell us to move on and realize our marraige most likely won't be saved....that the affair has gone on too long and the relationship has "cemented" or something similar

well.....Jennifer says that when affairs go on for some time, those people are still RENTERS unless they are married

and they are renters who gave up alot to be with the other person

she believes that the fantasy period where they "give, give, give" to each other WILL WEAR OFF and the reality of everyday will cause their TAKERS to start making demands instead of making SACRIFCIES

and LOVEBUSTING WILL OCCUR

so here's my problem

i pay big money for really good advice and then i come here for the free "support" this site is supposed to offer

and mostly what i get here is people telling me that everything Jennifer told me is wrong

that it's been TOO LONG, that my husband isn't going to return and that i am HANGING ON

anyone who agrees with jennifer is told they are giving me FALSE HOPE

and then i get upset and call Jennifer again....pay big money again...and she tells me that she STILL believes everything she has already told me and that i really need to just give it time and wait it out

so i don't come here as much as i used to

i don't post as often as i used to

and i don't keep myself from telling people they don't know what they are talking about like i used to

and i really question why this site isn't doing what it should for those of us who are dealing with this for the longest amount of time


i can honestly say that mimi's understanding of the concepts of plan A and plan B go along with SAA and Jennifer Harley

Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
J
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Aug 1999
Posts: 15,284
EAV,

I think the part most people don't understand about plan B, is that YOU, the plan B'er, are the expert on when to call it a day, or when to hang on. It is about YOUR love bank, and when/if it goes empty.

You should understand that anything you hear here is just opinion, and you ARE fully aware we are amateurs. However, with Jen, you have a professional and you should listen to her advice and give it much heavier weighting in taking advice. BUT, ultimately, it is YOUR call, not Jennifer's and certainly no one here.

That is the whole thing. Plan B gives one the distance from the situation to make a more rational call on the marriage. It offers you the distance we all have here, but allows you the much more detailed information you have have because you life it. The combination should be the best situation you can have to making a call on something as important as your marriage.

It is YOUR call, and it seems to me you know this and are taking a very responsible approach to it.

God Bless,

JL

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,819
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,819
Thanks for opening this thread and your great post, CJ. It's a reassurance thing for me. I get to where I'm feeling strong and know what I'm doing, but then something will happen to trigger me (or I'll trigger myself), and then I lose focus and begin to question everything. It's at those points where it's nice when a vet stops by and says "You're doing fine, SDG. This is all normal. There's still plenty of reason to hope."

Like I said elsewhere, I love the Killer Bees and all their support, but do they really know any more than I do? And what do I know? I'm working this plan because it makes sense to me, and I believe in it, but everything that can help build on that faith is incredibly valuable. Because we DO question whether it will work or not, and we KNOW that it won't work for everyone, and what we wouldn't give to know NOW whether it's going to work for us.

I guess it's like Believer reminds us, being in Plan B is kind of boring because nothing is happening. That makes it harder for those of us who work at a more frenetic pace. Maybe that's why we talk about the side benefits of Plan B (Look how much more confident you are, you'll be ready to move on when the time comes, etc.)--it's SOMETHING to talk about when there really isn't much else.

Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 35,996
Quote
i can honestly say that mimi's understanding of the concepts of plan A and plan B go along with SAA and Jennifer Harley


[color:"green"] You've got that right! [/color] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (Comfortable Shoe), 124 guests, and 106 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Sourdine, Abela Laye, Ardent Center, Lost@1969, Jmoor9090
71,845 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5