I feel like I have grown so much in the last few days. Especially yesterday, when even though my poor little boy wasn't feeling good, I had to take a day off from my hectic schedule. I spent the day reading, thinking, praying and posting on here, off and on almost all day. I feel so much more comfortable with where I'm at and where I need to go, with or without WH. Wow.. I can't believe I'm saying that!

Be sure to check out the Plan B thread here. There are a bunch of people in Plan B right now for some reason. It helps to see that others are struggling too.

I saw that tread last night and am thinking about jumping in over there.. thank you.

Just my two cents and probably not worth a lot as I am not an experienced plan B'er. I'm on my second marriage. I guess I did plan B the first time but for me it was easy - I was done - and the less I saw or talked to her the better. I didn't return her calls and had no interest in even trying.

IMHO you were premature on plan B. You have broken it already. He tested you to see if you were serious and got his answer - no - you weren't. You went to him after a couple days and basically begged for another chance. IMHO - he isn't going to respect or honor any continued "dark" attempt at this time.

IMHO (In My Humble Opinion - just in case on the acronym) you don't really want to go B and dark and will not be able to maintain it.

He basically told you he is thinking hard about his life and future and you possibly could be a part of that. My vote is go for it but not in the way I think you think is the way to win him back. It isn't being his mother and maid and nurse. IMHO he wants a wife - an equal wife - not a servant. He already knows you are ready and willing to be that. Is that how YOU want your marriage life to be ?

IMHO - plan A with portions of plan B are what might work. You work on a recovery at a distance. Let him stay where he is - not move back. See if he'll delay the divorce for now. Date. Maybe attempt councilling after two months of dating. If he comes back now IMHO your old patterns will repeat and you'll fail as a couple.

He needs to decide if he sees his future with you. Right now he doesn't know. You can't decide for him or influence that as much as you might think. He alone will decide. You being at a distance IMHO will allow him the time to decide - without you being at his beck and call. Don't be at his beck and call. Be single - as in reality you are right now. Remain so. Take other offers of your time before his. Make him secondary. Maybe he will decide he wants to be your primary effort. But that has to come from him - not you - and being at his beck and call and whims isn't going to make him respect you as an equal. No last minute dates.

IMHO it seems you have become subservient to him. That has to stop. He needs to understand you won't be and you won't be in the future. Your current marriage has failed. A new changed (permanently changed) one is the only chance for a future together IMHO. I think that is what he is deciding in his mind - does he want what he had ? I think he doesn't. I think if he feels that is what your future together will be he will pass - and move on. So don't offer that to him. Offer a new EQUAL PARTNER you. One that expects as much from him as you were offering him and won't comprimise/cave.

IMHO continued complete plan B will not bring him back. If communications are totally cut off again - I think he'll continue the divorce procedings as there is no reason not to and in a few months you'll be done legally - and there will be little incentive for him to change that.


Just my opinion - sorry so long.

FIL-
I kind of agree with notashoped.
I think that you need to plan a him more, along with not making him #1. I think that it will get his attention.

I also think that your heart is not into plan B yet, and the best way to get him back would be to have continued contact. Positive contact.

I am glad the baby, and you, are doing better! It can be so depressing so time, I understand the feeling... we all do!

Hang in there!
Sadmo

I agree with both of you. It's weird how sometimes people on the outside can see the whole picture, yet those of us caught in the eye of the storm so to speak are just lost.

My heart wasn't really into plan b.. I was just being so very hurt by plan a ing for so long, with none of my EN needs being met in return. But after the last few days of having the time to finally really read and digest all the info on here, I think that I was doing the giver part of plan a, but in a pitiful, subservient sort of way. I've always been a very nurturing, homebody sort of woman. I love cooking, decorating, and gardening. My family is my passion and I care for them passionately. I adore being a wife and a mother. Although I still feel these are admirable traits, I am starting to realize that they left a lot to be desired when it came to meeting my H's EN's. He finally filled out the questionaire for me today and boy, was I in for a shock. His #1 need is for a recreational partner. After that is an attractive spouse, then admiration, then SF, then conversation and then finally domestic support! And that was pretty much all I was doing, was the #6 need! I think he enjoys how motherly and nurturing I am, and I know he is missing it now that he is recovering from his surgery. BUT I have a lot to work on!!!

In some ways, I have been starting on these other things, just trying to survive the pain of all this and trying to build some sort of a life outside of my marriage. I initially started a part time job, mainly so I wouldn't stay home bawling day and night. Then a few months later I started a few night classes in studio art at the local college. Then I thought I might as well take advantage of the free gym at the college and started working out. Then the one that really threw my H for a loop, I took an 8 week snowboarding class! (keep in mind that I just had a baby less than 6 months earler) I think that was when he really started to look at me in a new light. He has snowboarded for years but I've always stayed home with the little kids or been pregnant or whatever. But he went with me on my last day of class and when I got freetime, he and I took one run down the mountain together. It was soooo cool, I was even able to keep up with him! I thought those lessons were gonna be the death of me the first few weeks but at the end, I was so proud of my accomplishment and so was he. He's also really admired my art projects that I've done so far.

So anyways, I think you guys are on the right track. Plan a, but more independantly. Be happy with myself, not clingy and desperate. I am working on it. I think that even my severely bad plan b helped me in a way because it helped me, even if for a few days, to pull away, and look at my life for once, with the possibility of him not being in it. I actually thought about what I want my life to look like, with or without him. He's been my life literally for sooooo many years, that I had forgotten how to be me without him. The kids to a certain degree too, but mainly I've been codependent with him. So ya think maybe I've smothered him away from me?

I've been leaning towards the 180 plan that mojodiva did with her husband. Kind of like what your doing, sadmo. What do you guys think?

Hey FIL,

U gotz mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


L.

I'm back to being lost. Why is it that I can't seem to hold it together and follow a plan.. any plan? WH was going to come over this morning to see little ones. It's almost noon and he has yet to show up. I've called twice because I have things to do. I don't want to call anymore, just left it in his court, saying well call me when you are coming. But I hate it that he thinks I have nothing better to do than wait for him to show up! I know I should just leave and do my own thing, but I really do want to see him!! I hate it how I miss him!

Ok, I will pull it together and just go run my errands. I know that means I won't get to see him till sometime next week or the week after. (except for the 5 minutes dropping off or picking up kids which make me long for him even more) I think that's what made plan b easier in some ways, is that I didnt get my hopes up about seeing him and spending time with him. Today, waiting for him, I feel drug back down into the depressed and lonely swamp I've been living in for the last year or two. Waiting for crumbs. Uuuugghhhhh...

Had a good talk with H. NC letter sent!!! He seems very tentatively hopeful but very concerned that I will turn back into the raging shrew I've been at times since finding about A. I kept emphasizing that that is not the person I want to be. He was somewhat non-commital about "us", but I think maybe that is trepidation. We've tried to work things out so many times before but things just kept getting worse. Of course this was because there continued to be innapropriate friendships between him and other women. So I left his house feeling unsure about where things stood, although happy about him not having an issue with reiterating NC and meeting my other conditions of continuing MC, and showing care with my feelings.

I kept thinking about something I read on here, about when the WS does surrender and meet your conditions, do you treat them as a POW or as the prodigal son? I was much more gentle and offering of forgiveness tonite then ever before. He just called me to say goodnight. That was nice. Been a long time. There was a softness in his voice...

FIL-
I think that it will work if you do the 180 thing. He is torn right now, and he seems to want to try to work it out. Just don't turn into the raving shrew that you were! Before me and my H got too bad, I was a complete and raving shrew whenever any of my needs were not being met. Now, with the wonderful 20/20 hindsight, and much help from reading and MB, I realize,"what the heck was I thinking?" And something that really stuck with me that I read here was "you want them to love you, show you love, but are you lovable?" WOW. That really hit home for me. I was NOT being lovable.

If I were you, I would proceed with cautious optimism. Small baby steps. Show him you have changed. And above all, limit relationship talks. That seems to push a lot of men away.

It sounds good, keep it up! You sound good too. YAY!

Sadmo

U R wanting and needing more than he can give and when you push him so, he will retreat.

Howz about making yourself more independent? I know you just had a baby and all but the WS hates when the BS needs, him. Your real H should be flattered but the WS will hate any attachment to the BS and family.

Ws' hate all that is good and right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

Get yourself back on a plan for your recovery.

L.

Sadmo - strangely enough, pre-A, I was NEVER demanding or angry. It's just that when I found out about the OW, I was soooo devastated, and even then, initially was loving and concerned when approaching him about the evidence I had found. He lied to me of course, and I even tried to buy the story for awhile. But I just couldn't do it and told him I needed some proof of what he was saying. That's when he became furious.. first time of many.. and I responded by crying, begging, pleading. But eventually, I started to fight back. And man, once that anger got going, it's hard to stop! That's the anger he's speaking of. Which is somewhat rightful, but still, I need to be able to show him tha he won't be paying forever should we reconcile. Thank you for the encouraging words!

Orchid - What are some suggestions for becoming more independent beyond what I've already started/done? And what plan should I be on???

Don't feel bad about being angry due to the A and lack of trust. No apologies needed. You s/b angry and highly frustrated.

Call him less. If you need him t/d stuff, give him the instructions and leave it be. Don't tell him HOW to do it. Let him figure it out.

In my case, less is more. The less info I gave the more he asked. Then when I had his attention.... I made my point and was more productive that way.

What I had to learn was patience. In a hurried up world, it is hard t/b patient and I don't like to deal with an issue more than once. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> WS' like to drag their feet and make the BS suffer. That infuriated me.

I had to learn to turn my anger into something productive and very anti-A. Reverse babble helped. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

L.

I have a few questions. I'm currently trying to do the 180 plan and we are discussing continuing to work on the marriage. (I feel like we would really finally be starting to work on the marriage, but he feels its a continuance) He is aware that if he decides that no, he does not want to try anymore (he says he hates what we've become and just isn't sure it/we can ever be good again) then it's back to NC between us. I've told him that it's just too painful to see him or talk to him otherwise. Do you think this comes across as an ulitmatum? As in, agree to work on the marriage or else you never see me again? I just realized it sounded like that! Is that bad? What would be a better way? To win him over to want to work on it? That is what I'm trying to do. One thing I'm concerned about is that our D will be final on June 14th. We've talked about stalling it, dismissing it, changing it to a LSA, or just going ahead with the D, and rebuilding a completely new relationship from there. Any ideas about this?

Well, in the meantime, until I can figure some of this out better or get some wise advice (hint, hint... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I will attempt to just stay the course with the 180's. That seems to be having some good effects.

FIL,

U've got mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

So H is coming over to pick up kids in a couple hours. He said he's finally feeling better and wants to get out of the house. So should I suggest we all go do something together or should I just be nice and friendly when he picks up the kids? I never know how to handle this stuff!

He needs to win you over. He is coming over for the kids. That's his job.

Verify if it is your H or the WS coming over. Then decide.

I gotta go take my aunt on some errands.

L.

He asked if I wanted to go out to get something to eat. I went.. he was quiet.. had a margerita.. not a good idea cuz then i say what's on my mind. Going home, he mentioned how he didn't think we had a chance. I said, "not at all?" and he said, no I don't think so.. after all you've done?". I' thinking "after all I"VE done?? you know not being understanding of his needs and being snoopy and not respectin his privacy and all. So after 20 minutes or so of this, we arrive at his house and I say that if he wants to blame all this on me, then he just needs to get out. My mediator will be in touch about picking up the kids. He says fine and gets out.

I think I blew it!! But he gives NOTHING> Well, sometimes, but then takes it back. Like it's some kind of game! Grrrr...

AAAAAAAAGGGGGGHHHHH! Did I just end my marriag????? I don't know how to handle this!!!

I hate this! I want so bad to call him and apologize.. for what? For expecting respect? For not taking all the blame? This is not a very good plan a, is it? I miss him sooooooo much! Why couldn't he have been a little bit kind??? Why couldn't he have actyed like he cared at all???